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RoanokeFan
02-19-2012, 05:45 PM
TALK OF EAGLES TRADING ASANTE SAMUEL HEATING UP (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/19/talk-of-eagles-trading-asante-samuel-heats-up/related/)

"A week after saying <a href="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/11/asante-samuel-doesnt-know-if-hes-in-the-eagles-plans/">he
doesn’t know if he’s in the Eagles’ plans</a>, cornerback Asante Samuel (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1127/asante-samuel)
is talking about what his future destination might be.


On Twitter (https://twitter.com/#%21/thepresidentcb) Saturday
night, Samuel asked his followers, “If they trade me where would you guys like
to see me go?”</p>


Samuel’s question may have been inspired by comments from Eagles General
Manager Howie Roseman, who compared the Eagles’ current cornerback situation
with Samuel, <a class="nameLink" href="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4715/dominique-rodgers-cromartie">Dominique
Rodgers-Cromartie</a> and <a class="nameLink" href="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/779/nnamdi-asomugha">Nnamdi
Asomugha</a> to the Eagles’ former quarterback situation with <a class="nameLink" href="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/704/donovan-mcnabb">Donovan
McNabb</a>, Kevin Kolb (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4151/kevin-kolb) and Michael Vick (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick).
The Eagles ended up trading both McNabb and Kolb, and Roseman hinted that
trading Samuel may be in the cards this year.</p>


“Whenever you have a surplus at a particular position there are talks around
the league, <a href="http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20120218/SPORTS02/120218002/Eagles-GM-Samuel-other-corners-can-work-together">people
call and your phone does ring</a>,” Roseman told the News Journal, “and
that’s happened in the past couple years by our quarterback situation.”</p>


Roseman said that when the Eagles’ phone does ring, they’ll answer.</p>


“We’re always open to phone calls and to seeing if something works,” Roseman
said, “and really if there are win-win situations for particular teams and
particular players, we’ll look at that and make a decision kind of in a
vacuum.”</p>


One way or another, Roseman said, he believes the players the Eagles do have
on their defense will work together better in 2012 than they did in 2011 because
this year they’ll have a full offseason together."
</p>

Voldamort
02-19-2012, 09:58 PM
too who

gmen0820
02-19-2012, 10:02 PM
This is only about a year late. Samuels was a scheme killer for them last year.

NYGRealityCheck
02-20-2012, 09:22 PM
Eagles starting to realize Samuels is not worth his salary and his cap-hit on the organization? Ludicrous! I say...

gmen0820
02-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Eagles starting to realize Samuels is not worth his salary and his cap-hit on the organization? Ludicrous! I say...I think it's more realizing he is a scheme killer. He's not that overpaid, he's a terrific off zone corner, but sucks in press man coverage or off man coverage, which suits what the Eagles want (or should) do with Aso and DRC.

NYGRealityCheck
02-20-2012, 09:34 PM
Eagles starting to realize Samuels is not worth his salary and his cap-hit on the organization? Ludicrous! I say...I think it's more realizing he is a scheme killer. He's not that overpaid, he's a terrific off zone corner, but sucks in press man coverage or off man coverage, which suits what the Eagles want (or should) do with Aso and DRC.

With the weaknesses you mentioned about him (basically not being able to cover good WRs man-to-man on a consistent basis anymore), do you think he still a top 5 CB in the league? because he's getting paid like one. If not, then he's overpaid.

gmen0820
02-20-2012, 09:59 PM
Eagles starting to realize Samuels is not worth his salary and his cap-hit on the organization? Ludicrous! I say...I think it's more realizing he is a scheme killer. He's not that overpaid, he's a terrific off zone corner, but sucks in press man coverage or off man coverage, which suits what the Eagles want (or should) do with Aso and DRC.

With the weaknesses you mentioned about him (basically not being able to cover good WRs man-to-man on a consistent basis anymore), do you think he still a top 5 CB in the league? because he's getting paid like one. If not, then he's overpaid.Notice I conceded he was overpaid, just not by much. The Eagles played a lot of off zone, and Samuels excelled. He is a top five off zone corner, maybe the best in the league.

Nnamdi is probably the best press man corner in the league, but an average off zone corner, is he overpaid? I don't think so. You sign these people to huge contracts to fit your system, and Samuels doesn't.

Eagles have press man personel, Samuels is a scheme killer, but still a great player, just not for the Eagles if they play a press man defense.

Itlan
02-20-2012, 10:10 PM
I don't think Asante is overpaid. You fit your players to your scheme, and the Eagles are going away from Asante. I for one am happy, he has killed Eli in the past. Eli even stated, "He's crazy. I don't know what he's doing." when asked why Asante seems to have his number.

The best we can hope for is no one will trade well for him, and he provides a nice cap hit for the Eagles.

NYGRealityCheck
02-20-2012, 10:26 PM
Eagles starting to realize Samuels is not worth his salary and his cap-hit on the organization? Ludicrous! I say...I think it's more realizing he is a scheme killer. He's not that overpaid, he's a terrific off zone corner, but sucks in press man coverage or off man coverage, which suits what the Eagles want (or should) do with Aso and DRC.

With the weaknesses you mentioned about him (basically not being able to cover good WRs man-to-man on a consistent basis anymore), do you think he still a top 5 CB in the league? because he's getting paid like one. If not, then he's overpaid.Notice I conceded he was overpaid, just not by much. The Eagles played a lot of off zone, and Samuels excelled. He is a top five off zone corner, maybe the best in the league.

Nnamdi is probably the best press man corner in the league, but an average off zone corner, is he overpaid? I don't think so. You sign these people to huge contracts to fit your system, and Samuels doesn't.

Eagles have press man personel, Samuels is a scheme killer, but still a great player, just not for the Eagles if they play a press man defense.

A off-zone only corner that sucks at man coverage is bascially borderline to being just a safety, where Samuels will still be overpaid (which we agree upon just maybe differences on degree :) ) for that position.

I think cornerbacks in general are paid more for their ability to cover man-to-man against WRs rather than their ability to play zone coverage, which linebacks and more importantly safeties can do as well (opinion). This is why i think it's ok for Nnamdi to be paid like a star but not Samuels at the cornerback position. His best man-coverage days are behind him.

Everything else I agree with you.

bLuereverie
02-20-2012, 10:42 PM
Samuel was the best corner in the league when fit in his respective system prior to the Castillo/Asomugha/DRC arrival. Whether playing zone or man, the effect was the same as he was thrown to the least amongst any CB. Absolutely nothing like a safety. Therefore, his pay made perfect sense.

And if a DE can justify a paycheck based an the overrated stat of just pure sacks, then Samuel can make a huge argument for his interceptions alone.

gmen0820
02-20-2012, 10:50 PM
Samuel was the best corner in the league when fit in his respective system prior to the Castillo/Asomugha/DRC arrival. Whether playing zone or man, the effect was the same as he was thrown to the least amongst any CB. Absolutely nothing like a safety. Therefore, his pay made perfect sense.

And if a DE can justify a paycheck based an the overrated stat of just pure sacks, then Samuel can make a huge argument for his interceptions alone.Well that's the problem, Samuels was not supposed to fit what Castillo "wanted to do" (what was presumed he should do, play press hand), but Castillo didn't do that too often. Castillo played a lot of zone, as well as trying to play Asomugha like Charles Woodson, which didn't work because Aso can't really tackle that well.

Samuels still had a pretty good year, low completion %, low yards etc. but the Eagles defense probably would have been better without him. Playing a scheme to accommodate press man and off zone corners just doesn't work, hence why I called him a scheme killer.

His subtraction might be an addition in many ways, it simplifies the scheme and puts players in better positions, they get compensation, and cap relief.

bLuereverie
02-20-2012, 10:50 PM
As for possible destinations of Asante, maybe NE looks for a reunion. They certainly have the assets and cap room to pull it off.

bLuereverie
02-20-2012, 10:57 PM
Samuel was the best corner in the league when fit in his respective system prior to the Castillo/Asomugha/DRC arrival. Whether playing zone or man, the effect was the same as he was thrown to the least amongst any CB. Absolutely nothing like a safety. Therefore, his pay made perfect sense.

And if a DE can justify a paycheck based an the overrated stat of just pure sacks, then Samuel can make a huge argument for his interceptions alone.Well that's the problem, Samuels was not supposed to fit what Castillo "wanted to do" (what was presumed he should do, play press hand), but Castillo didn't do that too often. Castillo played a lot of zone, as well as trying to play Asomugha like Charles Woodson, which didn't work because Aso can't really tackle that well.

Samuels still had a pretty good year, low completion %, low yards etc. but the Eagles defense probably would have been better without him. Playing a scheme to accommodate press man and off zone corners just doesn't work, hence why I called him a scheme killer.

His subtraction might be an addition in many ways, it simplifies the scheme and puts players in better positions, they get compensation, and cap relief.

I feel for Asante being pushed out, but when DRC and Nnamdi come to your team, you obviously build around them.

Castillo did some odd things with that team. From Nnamdi to safety to DRC playing the slot, it took injuries for him to force him to get it right at the end.

gmen0820
02-20-2012, 11:01 PM
Samuel was the best corner in the league when fit in his respective system prior to the Castillo/Asomugha/DRC arrival. Whether playing zone or man, the effect was the same as he was thrown to the least amongst any CB. Absolutely nothing like a safety. Therefore, his pay made perfect sense.

And if a DE can justify a paycheck based an the overrated stat of just pure sacks, then Samuel can make a huge argument for his interceptions alone.Well that's the problem, Samuels was not supposed to fit what Castillo "wanted to do" (what was presumed he should do, play press hand), but Castillo didn't do that too often. Castillo played a lot of zone, as well as trying to play Asomugha like Charles Woodson, which didn't work because Aso can't really tackle that well.

Samuels still had a pretty good year, low completion %, low yards etc. but the Eagles defense probably would have been better without him. Playing a scheme to accommodate press man and off zone corners just doesn't work, hence why I called him a scheme killer.

His subtraction might be an addition in many ways, it simplifies the scheme and puts players in better positions, they get compensation, and cap relief.

I feel for Asante being pushed out, but when DRC and Nnamdi come to your team, you obviously build around them.

Castillo did some odd things with that team. From Nnamdi to safety to DRC playing the slot, it took injuries for him to force him to get it right at the end.The Eagles should have traded him sooner. If they just locked Nnamdi, 1 on 1 on the left side, alone, you have dominance. I don't understand what Castillo was trying to do.

He wanted flexibility in his defense, so he plays Aso like a Charles Woodson, but how much more flexible can you get on your defense when you always know you have Nnamdi's WR for the most part locked up?

Whatever, I'm glad he ****ed that up.

gmen0820
02-20-2012, 11:02 PM
DP

bLuereverie
02-20-2012, 11:19 PM
Asante had his last big guaranteed cap hit this past season. Not sure how much the Eagles were accountable for it, but it wasn't an ideal situation to trade. They would either have some dead money for a player they couldn't service, or couldn't present an attractive contract worth trading for from another team. They still needed every player they could get from CB and S this past season.

Should be easier to trade now in that Samuel has little over in 2mil from bonus, with the rest in base salaries. It's not that hamstringing for a team to take on only for it to not work out.

NYGRealityCheck
02-20-2012, 11:37 PM
Ok, so it was more with scheme issues than anything.
Poor Asante Samuel may be pushed out/traded to clear things up for the Eagles on defense (10th ranked pass defense, 16th ranked rushing defense). It may slightly also have to do with the Eagles CB poor tackling issues, where Samuels was one of the worst in the league. (not a surprise) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826ff073/article/study-eagles-must-tackle-cornerback-problem

Asante would have to be traded, possibly going back to New England, which makes sense I agree.
I can't even wonder what NE or any team would offer the Eagles in return for Asante cause I don't care for the Eagles that much. They can go binge on free agents and wash-ups again and proclaim to be Dream Team 2.0...

NYGRealityCheck
02-20-2012, 11:39 PM
Asante had his last big guaranteed cap hit this past season. Not sure how much the Eagles were accountable for it, but it wasn't an ideal situation to trade. They would either have some dead money for a player they couldn't service, or couldn't present an attractive contract worth trading for from another team. They still needed every player they could get from CB and S this past season.

Should be easier to trade now in that Samuel has little over in 2mil from bonus, with the rest in base salaries. It's not that hamstringing for a team to take on only for it to not work out.

Yup.
1 million cap hit for 2012, 1 million cap hit for 2013. Eagles have to eat that no matter what happens. Only the large base salary transfers over to the new team, who can re-structured that upon his arrival.