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View Full Version : Bradshaws TD vs 20 yard FG,answer this question



pica01
02-21-2012, 05:45 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.

GmenFan1980
02-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Touchdown every time kthxbye

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 06:22 PM
Can't get over the Superbowl madness eh? That's understandable.

The Patriots were doomed either way.

The only flaw with the FG decision is

A) any wrong happens with the FG, Giants lose.
B) The FG would have absolutely not been the last play of the game, not even close. The Patriots had a time out and Bradshaw's TD run was on 2nd Down with 1 minute to go. 40 second play-clock -> 20 seconds left on game clock 3rd Down QB kneel -> Patriots Timeout (although I think the Giants would have gone for the TD here anyway) -> Chip Shot FG 1-2 seconds off the clock (18 seconds left in the game) -> Kickoff (touchback - no time off the clock) (A return -> 3-4 seconds off the clock).

Leaving the Patriots with 15-18 seconds from the own 20-30 yard line to get into game winning FG range for one of the most accurate kickers in the league (still hard to do anyway).

In conclusion, I think the Giants would have gone for the TD on 3rd down anyway. The FG was probably the last thing in their mind.

TheBookOfEli
02-21-2012, 06:27 PM
botched snap or blocked FG and the Patriots are champions.

TD is the better call. Have faith in the Defense.

nhpgiantsfan
02-21-2012, 06:29 PM
It's so simple I can't believe we're still talking about it. You don't turn down a free TD in the SUPERBOWL, basing it on the fact that you THINK or ASSUME, that you will have no problem getting a good snap, good hold, and good kick. With each of those players, longsnapper, holder, and kicker, knowing that if they mess up, their team loses the SUPERBOWL! You just don't take that chance. I don't care how many times, or in however many threads, you want to call it an extra point. It is not an extra point. The pressure there is immense and you are relying on 3 people to execute their job in the most pressure packed moment of their life.

Take the free points every time!!!

NYG 5
02-21-2012, 06:34 PM
make a dink and dunk offense go 80 yards for a TD with maybe a minute

vs

risk Trey Junkin 3000 or the pats having to go 60 yards for a field goal

TuckYou
02-21-2012, 06:35 PM
At the time I was absolutelyagainst it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>

TheBookOfEli
02-21-2012, 06:37 PM
At the time I was absolutely for it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>

Or This

http://nflseahawks.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/110115-romo.jpg?w=620&h=350

Toadofsteel
02-21-2012, 06:38 PM
Can't get over the Superbowl madness eh? That's understandable.

The Patriots were doomed either way.

The only flaw with the FG decision is

A) any wrong happens with the FG, Giants lose.
B) The FG would have absolutely not been the last play of the game, not even close. The Patriots had a time out and Bradshaw's TD run was on 2nd Down with 1 minute to go. 40 second play-clock -> 20 seconds left on game clock 3rd Down QB kneel -> Patriots Timeout (although I think the Giants would have gone for the TD here anyway) -> Chip Shot FG 1-2 seconds off the clock (18 seconds left in the game) -> Kickoff (touchback - no time off the clock) (A return -> 3-4 seconds off the clock).

Leaving the Patriots with 15-18 seconds from the own 20-30 yard line to get into game winning FG range for one of the most accurate kickers in the league (still hard to do anyway).

In conclusion, I think the Giants would have gone for the TD on 3rd down anyway. The FG was probably the last thing in their mind.

This. A FG, even if successful, on 4th down wouldn't run the clock out entirely. Yes, it would be a lot less, but it would require that the pats only score a FG to win. Whereas our TD put us up by more than 3. It's a tradeoff: would you like more time on the clock but forcing them to get into the end zone, or less time on the clock whereas they only need to get to the 35 yard line or so.

Overall, I'm happy with the way it turned out because we won. Even more than that, Brady was given 57 seconds and a timeout to march the ball across the field. Now you can't say it was a "game of last possession"... Brady was given a chance to answer, but our defense stepped up and prevented the score.

(that said, a JPP FG block to end the game would also be awesome)

Pop it Ahmad
02-21-2012, 06:38 PM
ANYTHING can happen.

Go to the NFC Championship game. DeOssie who I love, snaps the ball low, but luckily Weatherford handles it well and Tynes kicks us into the Super Bowl. Who's to say there's no low snap this time around?

Like someone wrote above, you trust in your defense. To be honest, I'm still kind of pissed our last TD was all out of wack. You didn't get the typical go-head clutch time touchdown call from the play-by-play, and then the sitting down...just kinda takes away the lore a little bit.

pica01
02-21-2012, 06:41 PM
OK,Bradshaw kneels at the 1.Touched at,say,55 seconds.Pat's take last TO.3rd down,Eli moves to the middle and takes a knee at the 2.40 second clock starts at,ay, 50 seconds.clock running.Giants call last TO at 11.By rule,FG takes at least 4 seconds.FG inside 4 seconds ends game,for instance.So,within a second or so the Giants,at worst,kick off with 7 seconds left.So let's get the time issue out of the way discussing this.The 20 yard FG,for all intents and purposes,ends the game.If somebody brings up Cal-Stanford I'm gonna scream.

pica01
02-21-2012, 06:56 PM
OK,you trust your defense more than your kicker who has made 150 strait 20 yarders.I trust this years offense.They earned it.I go back 40 years.This year our defense,at times,played as badly as ANY Giants defense I've ever seen.Yeah,they got it together late and played championship D.But trust our D?Over trusting we make a 20 yarder instead?You give your trust alot easier than I do.

jhamburg
02-21-2012, 07:00 PM
ANYTHING can happen.

Go to the NFC Championship game. DeOssie who I love, snaps the ball low, but luckily Weatherford handles it well and Tynes kicks us into the Super Bowl. Who's to say there's no low snap this time around?

Like someone wrote above, you trust in your defense. To be honest, I'm still kind of pissed our last TD was all out of wack. You didn't get the typical go-head clutch time touchdown call from the play-by-play, and then the sitting down...just kinda takes away the lore a little bit.


Our defense makes that stop 90% of the time. Our kicker makes that FG 97% of the time. /thread

bansaw
02-21-2012, 07:04 PM
just look at the snap in the SF game in OT. if Weatherford doesnt make a great play that doesnt go through
if the pressure of the NFCCG causes a low snap imagine the pressure in the SB

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 07:08 PM
OK,Bradshaw kneels at the 1.Touched at,say,55 seconds.Pat's take last TO.3rd down,Eli moves to the middle and takes a knee at the 2.40 second clock starts at,ay, 50 seconds.clock running.Giants call last TO at 11.By rule,FG takes at least 4 seconds.FG inside 4 seconds ends game,for instance.So,within a second or so the Giants,at worst,kick off with 7 seconds left.So let's get the time issue out of the way discussing this.The 20 yard FG,for all intents and purposes,ends the game.If somebody brings up Cal-Stanford I'm gonna scream.

55 seconds is impossible. Bradshaw's running play started at 1:04. Bradshaw would be touched a lot sooner with all the defenders right around him and the play clock automatically starts counting down from 40 seconds on that. Also, Patriots would not have called a timeout until after the 3rd down play.

Also, A chip shot FG doees not take 4 seconds lol.... Show me a FG starting from 1 yard line in an NFL game where it takes 4 seconds off the clock. By rule, clock stops after the ball clears the goal post and hits the net. Tynes 31- yard game-wining FG against San Fran (which is much farther) just barely took 4 seconds off the clock.

of course you can imaginarily stretch it to the end of the game.

I have a even better solution to this argument.

As Bradshaw is trying to get down on one knee with his broken foot, a Patriot defender easily comes from behind and knocks him into the endzone...

Question solved.

pica01
02-21-2012, 07:27 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.

bansaw
02-21-2012, 07:45 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.last time I checked we won the game

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.

How much do you want to bet that the Giants were planning on scoring a TD on 3rd down anyway after driving down the clock a bit to put themselves in a better position vs. kneeling to force the Patriots timeout and kicking the FG on 4th down?

Also, "Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD" (against bad defenses). Not the Giants defense!

nhpgiantsfan
02-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.

Keep latching on to the one person that agrees with you.. You can't use your percentages to factor in to the pressure that would've been on them in a situation where you lose the superbowl if you miss.Who cares if it was 20 yards, that doesnt make the snap or hold easier. And we almost blew the snap in the NFCCG.

Congrats on finding one person of the 138,985 members of these boards that agrees with you.

bandwgn86
02-21-2012, 07:55 PM
At the time I was absolutely for it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>


Or This http://nflseahawks.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/110115-romo.jpg?w=620&amp;h=350</P>


or this..</P>


http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww219/bbobberson/628x471.jpg</P>

GmenFan1980
02-21-2012, 07:59 PM
At the time I was absolutely for it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>


Or This http://nflseahawks.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/110115-romo.jpg?w=620&h=350</P>


or this..</P>


http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww219/bbobberson/628x471.jpg</P>

http://media.nj.com/giants_impact/photo/10344995-large.jpg

Or even this lol

bansaw
02-21-2012, 07:59 PM
or the fact Tynes squeaked one in earlier in the game

jhamburg
02-21-2012, 08:05 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.

Keep latching on to the one person that agrees with you..* You can't use your percentages to factor in to the pressure that would've been on them in a situation where you lose the superbowl if you miss.Who cares if it was 20 yards, that doesnt make the snap or hold easier.** And we almost blew the snap in the NFCCG.

Congrats on finding one person of the 138,985 members of these boards that agrees with you.


No amount of pressure makes a professional long snapper/holder/kicker less than 90% to make the equivalent of an XP that is 99% normally. That's like saying you don't trust an NBA player to make a wide open layup on a fast break because it's for a championship.

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Again Ham,I'm a newby and you're a veteran,but what's wrong with these people?And stats show we make it closer to 99% but I'll take 97%.Somebody always points to Romo.Yes,1 in 100 extra points or 20 yarders fail.Teams regularly go 80 yards w/1To in 57 seconds for a TD.Certainly more than 2 or 3 times out of 100.It's a no brainer.Unfortunately,there seems to be alot of no brainers here.Pregame.I offer the perfect situation.Yet,people argue against longterm %'s.Because that's how we did it,even though it's possibly not how we wanted to do it.I'm stunned at the homers here,vs the few Giants fans,like you,who look at everything from a football viewpoint,not a fan's viewpoint.

Keep latching on to the one person that agrees with you..* You can't use your percentages to factor in to the pressure that would've been on them in a situation where you lose the superbowl if you miss.Who cares if it was 20 yards, that doesnt make the snap or hold easier.** And we almost blew the snap in the NFCCG.

Congrats on finding one person of the 138,985 members of these boards that agrees with you.


No amount of pressure makes a professional long snapper/holder/kicker less than 90% to make the equivalent of an XP that is 99% normally. That's like saying you don't trust an NBA player to make a wide open layup on a fast break because it's for a championship.

I hope that doesn't make people post pictures of missed open lay-ups here with the way this thread has been going...lol

nhpgiantsfan
02-21-2012, 08:18 PM
Just the fact that there is any chance at all that you miss and lose the game is reason enough to take the free TD. I mean damn, our longsnapper botched the snap 2 weeks prior. The snap is 7 yards whether it is a 50 yard field goal or a 20 field goal. Thank God the holder saved him. It happens.

jhamburg
02-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Just the fact that there is any chance at all that you miss and lose the game is reason enough to take the free TD.


There's a chance you lose either way. I don't know about you, but I don't care HOW we lose the game. Maybe losing on a missed kick stings more than losing on a brady TD, but ultimately losing is losing.

Voldamort
02-21-2012, 08:26 PM
botched snap or blocked FG and the Patriots are champions.

TD is the better call. Have faith in the Defense. simple here you go

pica01
02-21-2012, 08:27 PM
Let me ask you guys this.If we were gonna take the free td,wouldn't it have been better if Bradshaw kneeled at the 1 making the Pat's use thier last To and we scored on 3rd down?After all,if the Pat's were gonna let us score on second down,they had even more reason to lay down on 3rd without any TO's left.Now,I await the posts defending scoring on 2nd down.Anyway you look at this,TD or FG,we screwed it up.Can we at least agree on that?

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 08:36 PM
Let me ask you guys this.If we were gonna take the free td,wouldn't it have been better if Bradshaw kneeled at the 1 making the Pat's use thier last To and we scored on 3rd down?After all,if the Pat's were gonna let us score on second down,they had even more reason to lay down on 3rd without any TO's left.Now,I await the posts defending scoring on 2nd down.Anyway you look at this,TD or FG,we screwed it up.Can we at least agree on that?

I agree the Patriots were screwed anyway. The Giants won the game anyway.

Patriots would have forced the Giants to get a 3rd down play off before calling a timeout. They wouldn't lose a timeout (for their possible comeback drive/to prevent the Giants from completely running out the game clock) on the 2nd down play.

Patriots call a timeout after 2nd down, just to watch the Giants score a TD on third, leaving them no timeouts for their comeback drive?
Belicheck is not that dumb.

giantsfan420
02-21-2012, 08:37 PM
let me ask u this,

the pats ran a play that branch got free in the middle of the field. hypothetically, NE runs the same exact play from the 20 after we kick the fg and they have 15-20 seconds. hypothetically, instead of throwing it over phillips who disrupts the pass, brady throws it out in front of branch, who has easily 20 yards of free room plus the sideline. he gets out to around the 50 yardline.

NE figures, wtf, we're indoors, no wind, with a strong legged kicker. i believe theirs a rule where the kicker is allowed to put the ball on a tee or something, i forget what the rule was but i know years ago this was discussed. i think ur even allowed a free kick.

even if it isnt a free kick, which has a higher chance of working, a hail mary, or like a 70 yard fg in a dome? (and im almost positive their is a rule about a free kick or something some one will prob know)

point is, WE WON. theirs no reason for hypotheticals. hypothetically, we kick it off after the fg, tynes tries to squib it, and it bounces out of bounds. NE gets the ball at the 40. Brady connects on a pass to branch down the sideline getting them outside normal range but still a chance to kick it.

u keep on saying 97%...THATS NOT 100% Just like 90% we stop them from scoring a td, NOT 100%

WE WON. OF COURSE U'D RATHER DO IT THE EASIEST WAY. WHICH ONE IS EASIEST WHEN U CANT TELL THE FUTURE???

A defensive penalty and the Pats get it our 40 yd line...so many things could happen. On the snap eli goes to kneel it, the snap gets fumbled (HAPPENED TO RIVERS THIS SEASON)...too many what ifs.

we won. this scenario will never be played out like this where theirs any confusion on what to do at the moment. we won. its stupid to keep on going over this. do u really need other peoples approval that badly? u feel that way, GREAT. AWESOME. DONT LET ANYONE CHANGE UR MIND. why does what strangers think mean so much to u

FBomb
02-21-2012, 08:38 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.</P>


um.....we won. That trumps all.</P>


Now you're just obsessing.</P>

alau53
02-21-2012, 08:44 PM
giants lost to cowboys 1st game of '03 season when fassel left 11 seconds on clock and billy cundiff kicked game tying fg and in ot won it on his 7th fg of game..just google sept 15, 2003 giants cowboys..this game helped fassel lose his job by leaving 11 seconds on clock on a go ahead fg by bryant instead of letting clock go to 4 seconds

bansaw
02-21-2012, 08:51 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.</p>


um.....we won. That trumps all.</p>


Now you're just obsessing.</p>Inorite

unreal people arguing hypotheticals and throwing percentages lol

what if Bradshaw popped a ligament or popped a srew in his foot trying to stop. Time to leave this thread its giving me a headache

FBomb
02-21-2012, 08:54 PM
giants lost to cowboys 1st game of '03 season when fassel left 11 seconds on clock and billy cundiff kicked game tying fg and in ot won it on his 7th fg of game..just google sept 15, 2003 giants cowboys..this game helped fassel lose his job by leaving 11 seconds on clock on a go ahead fg by bryant instead of letting clock go to 4 seconds</P>


The defense held them to a desperation pass that is RARELY caught. </P>


Are you peopleLOOKING for something to complain about??</P>

FBomb
02-21-2012, 08:55 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.</P>


um.....we won. That trumps all.</P>


Now you're just obsessing.</P>


Inorite

unreal people arguing hypotheticals and throwing percentages lol

what if Bradshaw popped a ligament or popped a srew in his foot trying to stop. Time to leave this thread its giving me a headache
</P>


I can't believe there is more than 1 thread on this subject.</P>

pica01
02-21-2012, 08:56 PM
Oh,I remember it.Didn't Bryant send the KO out of bounds to start the boys at the 40?You know,you can blame Fassel here for the result but ultimately,he takes the blame for incredibly poor execution by his kicker.And as I remember the game we played the prevent the win defense to boot after that KO.OH,I REMEMBER THAT GAME!

bansaw
02-21-2012, 08:56 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.</p>


um.....we won. That trumps all.</p>


Now you're just obsessing.</p>


Inorite

unreal people arguing hypotheticals and throwing percentages lol

what if Bradshaw popped a ligament or popped a srew in his foot trying to stop. Time to leave this thread its giving me a headache
</p>


I can't believe there is more than 1 thread on this subject.</p>same guy started both....

:facepalm:

FBomb
02-21-2012, 09:00 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEO1FA5Tv31z92AKfGl9j8HCv-GBmD0-7TwTXBwcsk7VIBZLWK</P>

pica01
02-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Easy fbomb.We're discussing strategy and what ifs from a good place.Imagine the discussion on Packers.com about hail marys.Think somebodies saying why are we still discussing this there?We're just talking football.If Gronk is standing a few feet further left?There,by the grace of the football gods,go we.

FBomb
02-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Easy fbomb.We're discussing strategy and what ifs from a good place.Imagine the discussion on Packers.com about hail marys.Think somebodies saying why are we still discussing this there?We're just talking football.If Gronk is standing a few feet further left?There,by the grace of the football gods,go we.</P>


The point is....What if's are stupid.</P>

CDN_G-FAN
02-21-2012, 09:11 PM
i take the TD against everyone except Brady Brees the other Manning with only 1 SB, or Rodgers.

against those 4 guys, i take the FG.

pica01
02-21-2012, 09:24 PM
You know what bomb,I'm really just not ready to stop talking about the Super Bowl.Maybe this 2nd thread on this subject is less interesting than Bradon Jacobs on the WWE.I just thought I'd approach the TD from a different angle.And I'm finding out that given a hypothetical no brainer pregame choice,many here still have no brain.Fbomb-21,000 posts.Um...we won,That trumps all.Obviously you go for quantity over quality.Hypotheticals are bad?I guess we shouldn't talk draft till after it's over,huh?Sports,the NFL especially,is about percentages.Sorry if I'm obsessing.

FBomb
02-21-2012, 09:38 PM
You know what bomb,I'm really just not ready to stop talking about the Super Bowl.Maybe this 2nd thread on this subject is less interesting than Bradon Jacobs on the WWE.I just thought I'd approach the TD from a different angle.And I'm finding out that given a hypothetical no brainer pregame choice,many here still have no brain.Fbomb-21,000 posts.Um...we won,That trumps all.Obviously you go for quantity over quality.Hypotheticals are bad?I guess we shouldn't talk draft till after it's over,huh?Sports,the NFL especially,is about percentages.Sorry if I'm obsessing.</P>


oh stop......I was just busting your nuts.[:D]</P>


Ok....how about these what ifs?</P>


What if Welker makes the catch? What if Mario doesn't get his feet in bounds? What if the Pats didn't have 12 men on the field...........the list is endless.</P>

lawl
02-21-2012, 09:46 PM
The fact that Belicheck wanted us to score a td and that Eli didn't want to score a td on that play is all you need to back up the "playing the percentages" argument.

pica01
02-21-2012, 09:55 PM
No biggie Bomb.But really,when you think about it,sports discussion by fans is always,1st and foremost about the whatifs.And as champions we get to discuss the what ifs from the only NFL fan base that the what ifs are completely for fun.Just imagine the what if discussions in NE,GB,SF etc.Don't fight the what ifs discussion.Only one fan base gets to enjoy it.That's us.Don't say who cares,we won.Be happy we won and embrace the what ifs that went our way.Only one team has the final what if go thier way.That's us!And boy,did alot of whatifs go our way.

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 09:57 PM
The fact that Belicheck wanted us to score a td and that Eli didn't want to score a td on that play is all you need to back up the "playing the percentages" argument.

What's to say Eli was going to tell the team not to score the TD after bringing the clock down some more on 3rd down? Making the Patriots score a TD with 18-15 seconds left from their own 20 yard line? What's the percentages on that?

Where is the assumption of a kneel down -> timeout Patriots -> FG come from? Did Coughlin or Eli or Gilbride specifically state this was the plan?

NYGRealityCheck
02-21-2012, 10:02 PM
At the time I was absolutely for it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>


Or This http://nflseahawks.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/110115-romo.jpg?w=620&h=350</P>


or this..</P>


http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww219/bbobberson/628x471.jpg</P>

http://media.nj.com/giants_impact/photo/10344995-large.jpg

Or even this lol

Here's the extra point examples...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41VsU4AAsBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTGco82JKHo

It would turn out dumb if the team declined an open TD, which the opponent was giving them for the lead and end up just to miss an easy FG.

JJC7301
02-21-2012, 10:09 PM
I know we've killed this to death but let me approach it from a different angle besides hindsight.It's pregame.I give you 2 senarios.We could attempt a 20 yard extra point FG on the last or next to last play of the game for the win or score a TD and give Brady 57 seconds w/1TO and a Td beats us.Before the game.What's your answer?.Mine is that the shortest,easiest possible FG near the gun is ABSOLUTELY MY BEST CASE SENARIO.Remember,it's before the game.
HANDS DOWN TAKE THE TD WITH 57 SECONDS LEFT. Something could go wrong like a fumble or a bad snap or kick.

Get the TD and force them to get the TD with 57 seconds and 1 timeout.

MikeSherrard
02-21-2012, 11:18 PM
The probability of winning the game in both scenarios is over 95%

GMen869007
02-21-2012, 11:52 PM
I'd go for the TD, especially since it put them up by at least 4. Those are guaranteed points, whereas a botched snap, bad hold, or missed kick ends the game. I'd trust the defense to keep them out of the endzone with just under a minute remaining, and if they can't, then we don't deserve to win anyways.

Not that it matters, but I'm still wondering why they ran the ball for the 2 point conversion when they had 2 tight ends out, and a quarterback who was on a roll.

pica01
02-22-2012, 12:08 AM
So if we can't stop them scoring in 57 seconds we don't deserve to win,right?But you're worried about converting a 20 yarder?If we can't convert a 20 yard FG we deserve to win less.I give up.

greenca190
02-22-2012, 12:29 AM
Honestly, I cannot believe that Belicheck called for his defense to lay down and give up. And I also find it hard to believe that no media outlets are blasting him for it. I don't care if you have Tom Brady as a quarterback. You don't simply wash away the game winning points to try and make them up within 50 seconds.

One of the worst coaching decisions I have ever seen.

Toadofsteel
02-22-2012, 12:56 AM
There are multiple points of failure for any FG attempt. The LS, holder, and kicker all need to do their jobs with exact precision; any one of those is off, and the kick can become no good.

In the same vein, there are multiple points of failure in a desperation long pass: the QB can be sacked while waiting for the receivers to reach the end zone (incumbent on the linemen to keep any pass rushers at bay; JPP would have had Brady sacked had there not been uncalled holding), a prevent defense can easily tip the ball away, etc.

The main difference in taking the free points is that it is then incumbent on the Patriots to execute perfectly, as opposed to our ST. Plus, as the TD put us up by more than 3 points, Brady must get it into the end zone. Brady was not able to score the entire 4th quarter. The defense was able to keep the pats scoreless, Brady was injured, etc.

Harooni
02-22-2012, 01:31 AM
i dont understand why so many say the TD was the best choice, bradshaw said it was a mistake, eli said it was not the plan and tc said it was not the plan.


IT WAS NOT THE PLAN!!!

he fell in and landed in on his rump. i understand no one wants to remember the go ahead TD was a goof but it was. did it work out ? sure but the best thing would be to kick the basically extra point and have almost no time left on the game clock and NE with 0 timeouts.

bansaw
02-22-2012, 01:38 AM
So if we can't stop them scoring in 57 seconds we don't deserve to win,right?But you're worried about converting a 20 yarder?If we can't convert a 20 yard FG we deserve to win less.I give up.what does this even mean?

wtf are you trying to get people to agree with?

bansaw
02-22-2012, 01:41 AM
No biggie Bomb.But really,when you think about it,sports discussion by fans is always,1st and foremost about the whatifs.And as champions we get to discuss the what ifs from the only NFL fan base that the what ifs are completely for fun.Just imagine the what if discussions in NE,GB,SF etc.Don't fight the what ifs discussion.Only one fan base gets to enjoy it.That's us.Don't say who cares,we won.Be happy we won and embrace the what ifs that went our way.Only one team has the final what if go thier way.That's us!And boy,did alot of whatifs go our way.I am starting to realize you know its irrelevant and you're just pleasuring yourself with every extra post you get in these meaningless threads

bansaw
02-22-2012, 01:41 AM
fap fap fap fap fap fap

GmenFan1980
02-22-2012, 02:11 AM
fap fap fap fap fap fap



http://www.kariread.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/tumblr_kxhyi8veIs1qaltqmo1_400.jpg

lol

GMen869007
02-22-2012, 02:25 AM
So if we can't stop them scoring in 57 seconds we don't deserve to win,right?But you're worried about converting a 20 yarder?If we can't convert a 20 yard FG we deserve to win less.I give up.

I like our chances better with the Patriots having to go 80 yards and into the endzone, where the defense gets a chance to stop them or make a play as opposed to hoping that everything is executed perfectly on a Field Goal, when I've seen late field goals fail (Playoffs against SF?) and we even dodged a bullet in SF this year with a bad snap. Tynes didn't exactly instill confidence in me with that one that hit the upright and ricochet in earlier. Heck, the Patriots even got into the Super Bowl because of a missed FG that is made most of the time. If the FG was the only choice, I'd be thrilled to have that chance, but if they're giving you a free 6 and it puts you up by more than a FG with a minute or less, I'd take it every time. I mean, if it comes down to a Hail Mary from the 50 yard line as time expires, so be it.

The fact is, we won, our defense stopped them. If they didn't, I'd be disgusted that they couldn't keep them out of the endzone in under a minute, but I'd rather lose that way than on a bad snap, hold, or kick as time expires, especially when they were willing to let us go up by 4 or more.

lawl
02-22-2012, 07:11 AM
The fact that Belicheck wanted us to score a td and that Eli didn't want to score a td on that play is all you need to back up the "playing the percentages" argument.

What's to say Eli was going to tell the team not to score the TD after bringing the clock down some more on 3rd down? Making the Patriots score a TD with 18-15 seconds left from their own 20 yard line? What's the percentages on that?

Where is the assumption of a kneel down -> timeout Patriots -> FG come from? Did Coughlin or Eli or Gilbride specifically state this was the plan?

I phrased my post such that what you are saying is not relevant to my argument.

WORLDCHAMPS
02-22-2012, 07:40 AM
<u><font size="6">TOUCHDOWN EVERY TIME
</font></u>

OX1
02-22-2012, 08:40 AM
So if we can't stop them scoring in 57 seconds we don't deserve to win,right?But you're worried about converting a 20 yarder?If we can't convert a 20 yard FG we deserve to win less.I give up.</P>


</P>


You should give up, in that situation, wetake the points. Your assuming we have only one chance, one play to stop them. We had only one play for that FG and it was over if we missed it. D had multiple chances forthe stop, playing our kind of D where we knew we would be rushing the passer. And by golly we got a sack, you know, one of those things that we just lucked out on, because it hasn't happend all year. </P>


</P>

jhamburg
02-22-2012, 10:01 AM
i dont understand why so many say the TD was the best choice, bradshaw said it was a mistake, eli said it was not the plan and tc said it was not the plan.**


IT WAS NOT THE PLAN!!!

he fell in and landed in on his rump. i understand no one wants to remember the go ahead TD was a goof but it was.** did it work out ? sure* but the best thing would be to kick the basically extra point and have almost no time left on the game clock and NE with 0 timeouts.


No, that's crazy talk. Running out the clock is just the rogue opinion of a couple of posters on this message board. Pay no attention to what Eli, Bradshaw, the Pats defense, and the entire coaching staff of both teams were trying to do.

buffyblue
02-22-2012, 10:46 AM
You take the guaranteed points when you are down in the game. If NY Giants were in the lead then you can play around with the clock.

If Bradshaw had stopped on the 1 and then Tynes wound up missing the FG which is very possible then folks would be screaming that he should have taken the TD. If we kick the FG and NE has a decent return and TB get a couple plays off putting them in FG range, which is very possible then everyone would be screaming.

You have to take the points and trust your defense to stop them in that situation.

Folks on here were screaming about the defensive collapse at the end of the GB game in the regular season when AR brought them to the FG for the win.

Funny how perception works.

buffyblue
02-22-2012, 10:48 AM
The strategy of letting the opther team score has happenned twice in SuperBowls that I can recall. It didnít work for GB against Denver and it didnít work for NE against NY.

The gaff during the last couple minutes of the game was BB challenging the MM catch and losing the timeout. He keeps the timeout and NE tries to hold us to the FG because they have a little bit of time to play with.

jhamburg
02-22-2012, 11:11 AM
The strategy of letting the opther team score has happenned twice in SuperBowls that I can recall. It didnít work for GB against Denver and it didnít work for NE against NY.

The gaff during the last couple minutes of the game was BB challenging the MM catch and losing the timeout. He keeps the timeout and NE tries to hold us to the FG because they have a little bit of time to play with.

Just for the record, I'm not claiming that letting the Giants score would "work" for the Patriots, I'm saying that it increased their chances of winning the game from about 3% to 10%. I'm not at all surprised that they still lost.

pica01
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
You can't believe BB allowed the TD?It at least gave his team a chance.You can't defend against a last second 20-25 yarder.You can really only hope the Giant's screw it up.What BB did was another nobrainer.

pica01
02-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Comeon Buffy!Tynes missing a 20 yarder is very possible?I also agree with the previous poster who said BB's biggest mistake was challenging MM's catch.It happened right in front of the Pat's bench.If he had all 3 TO's left everything probably goes down much differently.Then again,had MM bobbled it even slightly upon review and he didn't challenge...we rushed to the line,he went all in and lost.

Harooni
02-23-2012, 01:57 PM
thank god most of you never coach. You eat the clock ,you let them burn their last timeout. the pats gave up the score for a reason, they gave themselves another shot.

Bradshaw said he didnt mean to score , eli said he told AB not to score TC said it was not the plan.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 02:27 PM
thank god most of you never coach. You eat the clock ,you let them burn their last timeout. the pats gave up the score for a reason, they gave themselves another shot.

Bradshaw said he didnt mean to score , eli said he told AB not to score TC said it was not the plan.


looks to me like Bradshaw scoring a TD is 100% chance of winning

Ralph Brown
02-23-2012, 02:46 PM
At the time I was absolutelyagainst it, and actually was a little upset we scored... yeah, weirdest superbowl winning TD feeling ever... </P>


Then I thought about this...</P>


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQlsJzNjhcwmtLoYDodxQ0DnvWV5kbv FuI5wnvjEoGawM5y5ZN</P>


And I was good with it.</P>


</P>


I guarantee that everyone here who says TD definitely would have said FG if the Pats somehow scored. You are the only one who at least admitted they were not happy with the TD at first. Respect</P>

burier
02-23-2012, 04:14 PM
We really need to to discuss this.

The last thing you ever EVER do is put the game in the hands of a no good stinking kicker.

that must only be a last resort.

We've won a Superbowl because a kicker couldn't execute.

The Patriots were in the Superbowl because a kicker couldn't execute.

The seahawks made it past the Cowboys in the playoffs because a holder couldn't execute.

The pressure is too great to put on special teams unless you have no choice. The nerves alone increase the chance the the snap, hold or kick being botched exponentially.

nygsb42champs
02-23-2012, 04:17 PM
Touchdown because to many things can go wrong with a field goal no matter how short the kick is.

pica01
02-23-2012, 04:45 PM
Believe me,I never trust a kicker,unless it's Matt Bahr.But this is a 20 yarder.Yeah,extra points get missed.Bad snap or hold etc.I can't remember off hand the last extra point shanked so badly it just missed outright.I know it's happened so please,don't start posting examples.Even Cundiffs total shank left from 32 is good from 20.From 20 yards it almost totally comes down to snap and hold.Statistically,extra points are good approaching 99%.That includes blocks.Outright misses by the kicker from 20 yards?I watch alot of football.I don't remember the last one.Alot of coaches put the game in the hands of thier kicker,sometimes even by plan.We've all seen teams run the ball to set up a kick.So,to say you only put the game in the hands of the kicker as a last resort is,well,rediculous and contrary to all evidence.And this was the easiest kick of all.Not 32 or even 25 yards.20 yards.Tynes wasn't gonna miss .Can you aleast give me that?

Husky
02-23-2012, 05:25 PM
"Tynes wasn't gonna miss .Can you aleast give me that? "

If that were true, and not 99%, we wouldn't be having threads like this. They'd just drain the clock and kick. But that 1 in a hundred makes taking SURE points and making it a 4 pt game, made sense, too. JMHO

nhpgiantsfan
02-23-2012, 05:31 PM
We really need to to discuss this. The last thing you ever EVER do is put the game in the hands of a no good stinking kicker. that must only be a last resort. We've won a Superbowl because a kicker couldn't execute. The Patriots were in the Superbowl because a kicker couldn't execute. The seahawks made it past the Cowboys in the playoffs because a holder couldn't execute. The pressure is too great to put on special teams unless you have no choice. The nerves alone increase the chance the the snap, hold or kick being botched exponentially.</P>


</P>


THIS!!!! This says it best. No need to post on this topic any more. Perfectly said. </P>

GameTime
02-23-2012, 05:36 PM
I know we've killed this to death <FONT color=#000080 size=4>but</FONT> .</P>


"BUT"....I just want to prove that I am right about this scenario...[;)]</P>


come on man.....whats the dif.</P>


</P>

bansaw
02-23-2012, 05:40 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3859613640694138236

pica01
02-23-2012, 05:43 PM
Huskey,nothing is 100%.I realize that.But it's closer to 100% than stopping the Pat's scoring a TD in 57 seconds w/1TO.Would you give me that?My original post proposed a pregame hypothetical.A 99% sucess rate 20 yarder near the gun vs Brady,57 seconds w/1To,a TD wins.Not hindsight.What would your answer have been?Geez,in 08 they had 35 seconds and if Brady had 1 more foot in his arm on that 70 yard bomb to Moss,well I shutter to even think about it.I think anyone,pregame,would choose the FG.Those who wouldn't.would,they just won't admit it.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 05:53 PM
we're 3-0 keeping them from scoring a TD with less than 1 minute the last 3 games

100%

pica01
02-23-2012, 05:56 PM
You are right GT.It really is an everyones entitled to thier opinion but yours is wrong type situation.I can't help myself.I'm the same way with politics.After 30 years I've changed my views.I'm opinionated but willing to change my opinion given a persuasive case.I'm looking for that.Not getting it.What's the diff?Well,we're the only fan base that get's to discuss what if's from a good place.It's fun to me.I wasn't here for the Djax Eagle debacle.I can only imagine that discussion.

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:00 PM
Bansaw,when you get to 99 out of 100 get back to me.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Bansaw,when you get to 99 out of 100 get back to me.whats that even mean

GmenFan1980
02-23-2012, 06:11 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3859613640694138236

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUsiJnpuvWur5NnJ5nP96PwdZs0tlbG 0KPZCTBEWqhviaALU96oyPLljYJ

GmenFan1980
02-23-2012, 06:16 PM
Bansaw,when you get to 99 out of 100 get back to me.whats that even mean


It means you need to Build a super computer that can simulate the exact situation and run each scenario 100 times each (Score a TD and Drain Clock with Field goal)

Then come back and show us your results.

Or just play madden :P

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:19 PM
Speaking of stopping teams from scoring late TD's,did anyone here watch the Saint-49er game?Remember that 1 play 80 yard Td drive inside 2 minutes.Scored too fast I guess.Followed by another TD drive in the last minute.20 yarder near the gun.Remember Aikman questioning whether Smith would have been better off stopping at the one on that 30 yard TD run,running out the clock to kick a game winner at the gun?The Saint's scored an 80 yard TD on thier first play after that.And the 49er's went 80 yards after that.That's it,discussion over.FG at or near the gun from 20.Every time.That game proves my point.The 49er's,maybe the best D in the league gave up an 80 yard TD on the 1st play.Can't wait to see responses to that.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Speaking of stopping teams from scoring late TD's,did anyone here watch the Saint-49er game?Remember that 1 play 80 yard Td drive inside 2 minutes.Scored too fast I guess.Followed by another TD drive in the last minute.20 yarder near the gun.Remember Aikman questioning whether Smith would have been better off stopping at the one on that 30 yard TD run,running out the clock to kick a game winner at the gun?The Saint's scored an 80 yard TD on thier first play after that.And the 49er's went 80 yards after that.That's it,discussion over.FG at or near the gun from 20.Every time.That game proves my point.The 49er's,maybe the best D in the league gave up an 80 yard TD on the 1st play.Can't wait to see responses to that.who won?

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:23 PM
Before you jump on it,maybe it wasn't Aikman.Whoever the analyst was,he brought it up.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 06:25 PM
what if your aunt had testicles

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:32 PM
There we go.Who won.The ends justify the means.That's it,huh?Who won?The equivelant of sticking your tongue out at me.More serious discourse.Is that the best you got?

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:34 PM
I guess she'd be my uncle.Ok Bansaw,that was unexpected and slightly funny.No reason for us to fight,we did after all.win.Truce.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 06:36 PM
.The ends justify the means

you said it

dunno why you're beating this dead horse...

Harooni
02-23-2012, 06:46 PM
The thing is fans are paranoid over the 99-100 kick. Coaches know best.


Eli was 1000 percent correct telling ab not to score so quickly.

pica01
02-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Bansaw,I told you why.I can't help myself.To me,this is like arguing with people who say OJ was innocent.They're entitled to thier opinion.But I'll never give up trying to convince them otherwise.And I said you believe the ends justify the means.By that logic,had the Giants recovered the famous Pisarchik-Czonka fumble and won the game instead of the Eagles,you'de defend the play call.Would you?

bansaw
02-23-2012, 06:53 PM
unlike you i dont argue the hypothetical

pica01
02-23-2012, 07:05 PM
You're right H.And I think it's clear Coughlin really preferred the FG and didn't make himself clear to his players.Hence his answer when asked his 1st thought after the Td."I hope this doesn't come down on my head".He knew that "well actually,I wanted to run the clock and kick the FG etc really would've "come down on his head" postgame had the TD backfired.How could he defend himself.It's one thing to decide to go for the Td.It's another to want to setup the FG and score a TD instead.That's much worse than your decision backfiring.That's what you actually decided against backfiring.Doesn't anyone else see this?

pica01
02-23-2012, 07:09 PM
Geez Bansaw,discussing sports as fans is all about what ifs.Second guessing is a time honored tradition.Hence the term,"monday morning quarterback".Heard of it?

Harooni
02-23-2012, 07:19 PM
unlike you i dont argue the hypothetical

quitter!!! Argue it's what makes this place fun.

GmenFan1980
02-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Geez Bansaw,discussing sports as fans is all about what ifs.Second guessing is a time honored tradition.Hence the term,"monday morning quarterback".Heard of it?

Second guessing or Hindsight is usually used for things that go wrong. Not when they go right.

I wonder is Denver still Second guesses when the packers let them score http://boards.giants.com/emoticons/emotion-40.gif hmmmmmmm

JMFP2
02-23-2012, 07:33 PM
botched snap or blocked FG and the Patriots are champions. TD is the better call. Have faith in the Defense.</P>


This right here....no such thing as a guaranteed FG.</P>


</P>

jhamburg
02-23-2012, 07:43 PM
The thing is fans are paranoid over the 99-100 kick. Coaches know best.


Eli was 1000 percent correct telling ab not to score so quickly.

Yea...everyone is all like "Have faith in the defense!!!" because you already know how the story ends...I guarantee you were all scared ****less when the Patriots had the ball though.

I mean everything went wrong for the Pats on that drive. They had an incompletion, a drop, a sack, and a short time wasting completion that shouldn't have been thrown, and they still came a few feet away from the winning TD on the hail mary.

GmenFan1980
02-23-2012, 07:48 PM
The thing is fans are paranoid over the 99-100 kick. Coaches know best.


Eli was 1000 percent correct telling ab not to score so quickly.

Yea...everyone is all like "Have faith in the defense!!!" because you already know how the story ends...I guarantee you were all scared ****less when the Patriots had the ball though.

Of course we all were. Are you saying you wouldn't have been scared with Brady having 20 seconds and just would have needed a lucky FG to win?

jhamburg
02-23-2012, 08:18 PM
The thing is fans are paranoid over the 99-100 kick. Coaches know best.


Eli was 1000 percent correct telling ab not to score so quickly.

Yea...everyone is all like "Have faith in the defense!!!" because you already know how the story ends...I guarantee you were all scared ****less when the Patriots had the ball though.

Of course we all were. Are you saying you wouldn't have been scared with Brady having 20 seconds and just would have needed a lucky FG to win?

Much less so. No timeouts, one completion in bounds and the game is over. They basically needed a 45+ yard pass to the sidelines to even have a chance for the kick. It's a much easier situation defensively.

pica01
02-23-2012, 08:46 PM
Gmen,I thought I had shown that at very worst we kickoff with 10 seconds left but I'll do it again.Bradshaw kneels at the one,touched down at 55 seconds.Pat's last TO.Eli moves to the middle on 3rd at the 2 and kneels. The 40 second clock would probably start at under 50 on the game clock,but let's say you start it at 52.although even taking a knee takes more than 3 seconds before the 40 sec clock starts.Even given that we call TO at 13 seconds and by rule the minimum time a FG takes is 4 seconds,the rule being that FG's inside 4 seconds end the game,like the NBA's rule on last second shots,the worst case is we kickoff under 10 seconds.If we squib it,which I hate but would be appropriate here it's another 2-3 seconds.The pat's would have one play well outside hail mary range at best.Agree?

pica01
02-23-2012, 08:49 PM
There's a very good chance the Pat's would have only have 2 or 3 seconds left and whatever they did wouldn't matter.

GmenFan1980
02-23-2012, 08:57 PM
Gmen,I thought I had shown that at very worst we kickoff with 10 seconds left but I'll do it again.Bradshaw kneels at the one,touched down at 55 seconds.Pat's last TO.Eli moves to the middle on 3rd at the 2 and kneels. The 40 second clock would probably start at under 50 on the game clock,but let's say you start it at 52.although even taking a knee takes more than 3 seconds before the 40 sec clock starts.Even given that we call TO at 13 seconds and by rule the minimum time a FG takes is 4 seconds,the rule being that FG's inside 4 seconds end the game,like the NBA's rule on last second shots,the worst case is we kickoff under 10 seconds.If we squib it,which I hate but would be appropriate here it's another 2-3 seconds.The pat's would have one play well outside hail mary range at best.Agree?

So now we are going to kneel? What supports that claim? we are already running the ball. might as well run again on third and see what happens.

Besides that I refuse to go any further into your "What if" scenario because that's not what happened and their is nothing to say that anything you think should happen will happen

GameTime
02-23-2012, 09:10 PM
You are right GT.It really is an everyones entitled to thier opinion but yours is wrong type situation.I can't help myself.I'm the same way with politics.After 30 years I've changed my views.I'm opinionated but willing to change my opinion given a persuasive case.I'm looking for that.Not getting it.What's the diff?Well,we're the only fan base that get's to discuss what if's from a good place.It's fun to me.I wasn't here for the Djax Eagle debacle.I can only imagine that discussion.</P>


Look man....yeah the scenario with giving Brady back the ball with only 20 seconds to go up by 1 is most likely the one to go with by most. But you know what....thats not brain surgery and its an easy decision. So why are you so hell bent on beating this to death???.</P>


Besides....even if your HYPOTHETICAL is the more popular scenario what REALLY happened ACTUALLY happened. So like I said .....whats the diff??. You cant change history....ever....</P>


</P>

pica01
02-23-2012, 09:17 PM
G-I'm talking about 3rd down.At the one.If Bradshaw took a knee why wouldn't Eli on third.Personally,I would have had Eli take a knee on 2nd and 3rd down and trusted Tynes from mid 20's.Imagine what we'de be discussing had the Pat's defended Bradshaws run and put a lucky helmet on the ball?At least we didn't ask Eli to execute a complete reverse spin handoff like Pisarchik to Czonka.That fumble changed the way teams ended games.And someday someones gonna fumble going for the TD over the easy FG and change what everyone does in this situation.Or someones gonna blow the chippy.I'm for the chippy,in advance.especially from 20.

pica01
02-23-2012, 09:32 PM
GT-the point is that my hypothetical isn't the more popular scenario here.That's why I can't let it go.And it's not 20 seconds.It's more like 5-7.And just needing a FG there is a big difference.Given todays NFL,where,especially indoors,55 yarders or more aren't a question of leg,I'd probably choose the 57 second TD course over the 20 second FG beats us course.5-10 seconds,I'm going the FG way.Hey,before "the fumble",the victory formation didn't exist.Does it take a similar disaster to decide this type of scenario?

bansaw
02-23-2012, 09:40 PM
anyone else see Johnny Whatif talking about this the entire offseason?

pica01
02-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Hey ban,if you haven't notice I'm also very active talking draft,cap and other needs.And unlike you,I bring actual intelligence to the board.I especially loved your post about big Ben renegotiating.Your complete lack of knowledge about what the Steelers and Ben did was topped only by saying Ben's not long for the league because he's been sacked 120 times more than Eli.What insight.A mobile QB who is a great improviser gets sacked more than Eli,who is much more likely to throw it away vs getting sacked.Who would've thunk it?For those wondering what bansaw said,see the Ben renegotiated thread.In short,he said Ben was stupid to put off money to the future because he wouldn't be around to collect it.In reality,Ben accelerated salary due into an immediate signing bonus payout.Bansaw,I offered you a truce.You didn't accept it.I've read what you have to say on numerous threads.You're way,way out of my league.The only think you're better at is spacing your posts.Still trying and failing at that.Sorry.

Voldamort
02-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Touchdown every time kthxbye any day

pica01
02-23-2012, 10:27 PM
And bansaw,you're probably better checking your posts for spelling errors.Hey,a few beers and being dissed by an idiot can do that to me.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 10:48 PM
And bansaw,you're probably better checking your posts for spelling errors.Hey,a few beers and being dissed by an idiot can do that to me.what are you even talking about spelling errors...lol are you really this lame?

and just let you know I dont read your walls of text you write

Harooni
02-23-2012, 10:53 PM
And bansaw,you're probably better checking your posts for spelling errors.Hey,a few beers and being dissed by an idiot can do that to me.what are you even talking about spelling errors...lol are you really this lame?

and just let you know I dont read your walls of text you write


haha love the back and forth. great entertainment.

bansaw
02-23-2012, 10:56 PM
And bansaw,you're probably better checking your posts for spelling errors.Hey,a few beers and being dissed by an idiot can do that to me.what are you even talking about spelling errors...lol are you really this lame?

and just let you know I dont read your walls of text you write


haha love the back and forth. great entertainment.
he's like the new GWAT

jhamburg
02-23-2012, 10:59 PM
anyone else see Johnny Whatif talking about this the entire offseason?



Obviously it isn't an important discussion, and I would have given it a rest a long time ago if it weren't for a couple of things:

1. Many posters here not just dismissing the idea of not scoring, but deriding the suggestion as being an obviously wrong decision (Why did the coaching staff and players of both teams agree with me then?)

2. Many people suggesting that you should ALWAYS take the opportunity for a touchdown in ANY situation in football. (This one is clearly and blatently wrong, I don't think I should need to explain it)

nhpgiantsfan
02-24-2012, 10:28 AM
G-I'm talking about 3rd down.At the one.If Bradshaw took a knee why wouldn't Eli on third.Personally,I would have had Eli take a knee on 2nd and 3rd down and trusted Tynes from mid 20's.Imagine what we'de be discussing had the Pat's defended Bradshaws run and put a lucky helmet on the ball?At least we didn't ask Eli to execute a complete reverse spin handoff like Pisarchik to Czonka.That fumble changed the way teams ended games.And someday someones gonna fumble going for the TD over the easy FG and change what everyone does in this situation.Or someones gonna blow the chippy.I'm for the chippy,in advance.especially from 20.</P>


Imagine what we'd be discussing had they chose not to score and then DeOsssie snaps ANOTHER one into the ground that Weatherford couldnt handle this time!</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>

GameTime
02-24-2012, 10:42 AM
GT-the point is that my hypothetical isn't the more popular scenario here.That's why I can't let it go.And it's not 20 seconds.It's more like 5-7.And just needing a FG there is a big difference.Given todays NFL,where,especially indoors,55 yarders or more aren't a question of leg,I'd probably choose the 57 second TD course over the 20 second FG beats us course.5-10 seconds,I'm going the FG way.Hey,before "the fumble",the victory formation didn't exist.Does it take a similar disaster to decide this type of scenario?</P>


you have to let it go because you will never be satisfied with the responses you get....</P>


this thread is proof of that...</P>


you dont always have to be "right" to win.....</P>


</P>

Husky
02-24-2012, 10:50 AM
Conversely, if the Pats get anywhere near the 35, whether on a completion, return or PI, you stand to lose with a fg. Plus on that Hail Mary, JPP was being blatantly held.
If they would go up by 3 I would take the FG scenario, but not if a miss meant losing.