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View Full Version : DAVID BAAS WILL NOT BE A CAP CASUALTY OF THE GIANTS



RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
DAVID BAAS WILL NOT BE A CAP CASUALTY OF THE GIANTS (http://www.giants101.com/2012/02/22/david-baas-will-not-be-a-cap-casualty-for-new-york-giants/)

"With all the talk about the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants and their alleged cap problems, there's
been much speculation about who's going to get the ax to shave off some
"unnecessary" salary. A name frequently seen near the top of that list in center
<a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with David Baas" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/david-baas/" rel="tag nofollow">David
Baas</a>, who signed a five-year, $27.5 million deal with the Giants only a year
ago.



</p><div style="DISPLAY: none">New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants center <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with David Baas" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/david-baas/" rel="tag nofollow">David
Baas</a> picks himself up off the turf after a second quarter play against the
San Francisco 49ers during the NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) NFC Championship game in San Francisco, California,
January 22, 2012. REUTERS/Robert Galbraith (UNITED STATES - Tags: SPORT FOOTBALL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/football/))</div>
<div style="MARGIN: 5px">


<div style="POSITION: relative">



<div style="FLOAT: left">

</div></div></div>




Common sense aside, some feel Baas' $3 million base salary for 2012 makes him
a legitimate candidate to be released (http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150557940399856&amp;id=2047 65974855).</p>
<blockquote>


"Here is the deal: the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants are $9 million OVER the cap right now.
They need to get under it by March 13th, when free agency begins. This is why
Jacobs is most likely as good as gone with a few other players as well, possibly
Canty, Baas, maybe others," wrote another Giants site.</p></blockquote>


To clarify, the Giants are actually only $1.67 million over the projected 2012 salary cap (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-nfl-salary-cap-teams-2012,0,5969798.htmlstory) right now,
and that does not include a potential $1.07 rollover from a year ago (this still
need to be clarified and confirmed) and the three $1.5 million salary cap
exceptions the new Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) will allow for
2012.</p>


Getting back to Baas however, cutting him in 2012 would accelerate the remaining $6.8 million of his bonus (http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&amp;thread=435653&amp;thread_page=1) to this
year, ultimately costing the Giants $6 million against the cap. In other words,
$3 million more than his $3 million base salary ($2 million of which is
guaranteed).</p>


Baas' full contract numbers (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/08/giants_deal_with_offensive_lin.html):</p>


SIGNING BONUS: $8.5 million</p>


BASE SALARIES</p>


2011: $1m (guaranteed)
2012: $3m ($2m guaranteed)
2013: $4.25m
2014:
$4.75m
2015: $5m</p>


WORKOUT BONUSES: $250,000 each year from 2012-15</p>


Quick math shows that works out to these salary-cap numbers:</p>


2011: $2.7m
2012: $4.95m
2013: $6.2m
2014: $6.7m
2015: $6.95m</p>


So, there you have it. Cross Baas off the list of potential cap casualties.
You can probably cross Chris Canty off of that list as well. The cap situation
isn't nearly as bad as it's being made to seem.</p>

MattMeyerBud
02-22-2012, 12:00 PM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 12:21 PM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well

rainierjef
02-22-2012, 12:39 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. smfh this is why i don't get into the MM is going to ask for this/ Osi wants this type of money / we can't afford this arguments anymore cause its like two blind people trying to cross a road no seeing eye dog or kane

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. smfh this is why i don't get into the MM is going to ask for this/ Osi wants this type of money / we can't afford this arguments anymore cause its like two blind people trying to cross a road no seeing eye dog or kane

The numbers are also coming from ill informed media outlets. There are variables that impact on the total CAP figures including a possible carryover from, I think, two season ago when there was no cap and an exemption for teams far above the CAP.

What matters is that Jerry Reese knows what the actual numbers are.

It's fine to discuss these issues as long as we know we don't know what we're talking about a lot of the time.

rainierjef
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. smfh this is why i don't get into the MM is going to ask for this/ Osi wants this type of money / we can't afford this arguments anymore cause its like two blind people trying to cross a road no seeing eye dog or kane

The numbers are also coming from ill informed media outlets. There are variables that impact on the total CAP figures including a possible carryover from, I think, two season ago when there was no cap and an exemption for teams far above the CAP.

What matters is that Jerry Reese knows what the actual numbers are.

It's fine to discuss these issues as long as we know we don't know what we're talking about a lot of the time.


</P>


exactly this changes alot of things MM, Osi, who we look at in FA. people still need to restructure if possible, but its not as doom and gloom as 9-16 mil over. </P>


personally i wouldn't mind taking whatever hit in dead money from dropping baas. maybe im putting my foot i my mouth, maybe i'll have to do another confessional thread like i did for gilbride this year, i hope so lol but i just don't see baas a a full time Starting center in our division maybe guard but not center. </P>

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 01:21 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. smfh this is why i don't get into the MM is going to ask for this/ Osi wants this type of money / we can't afford this arguments anymore cause its like two blind people trying to cross a road no seeing eye dog or kane

The numbers are also coming from ill informed media outlets. There are variables that impact on the total CAP figures including a possible carryover from, I think, two season ago when there was no cap and an exemption for teams far above the CAP.

What matters is that Jerry Reese knows what the actual numbers are.

It's fine to discuss these issues as long as we know we don't know what we're talking about a lot of the time.


</p>


exactly this changes alot of things MM, Osi, who we look at in FA. people still need to restructure if possible, but its not as doom and gloom as 9-16 mil over. </p>


personally i wouldn't mind taking whatever hit in dead money from dropping baas. maybe im putting my foot i my mouth, maybe i'll have to do another confessional thread like i did for gilbride this year, i hope so lol but i just don't see baas a a full time Starting center in our division maybe guard but not center. </p>

The problem, as I understand it, with dropping Baas is we still have an $6M obligation that would count against the CAP this year. There are some scenarios that make restructuring some contracts unadvised. Reese deserves whatever they pay him to keep all of this in check (no pun intended).

slipknottin
02-22-2012, 01:28 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap.

Or the sunsentinel is wrong and it is closer to 9 million over.

rainierjef
02-22-2012, 01:36 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. Or the sunsentinel is wrong and it is closer to 9 million over.</P>


who's the sunsentinel ? and are you saying it is! actually 9 mil over. dammit this is confusing me this article is saying were only 1 mil over whats the right number lol?</P>

slipknottin
02-22-2012, 01:40 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. Or the sunsentinel is wrong and it is closer to 9 million over.</P>


who's the sunsentinel ? and are you saying it is! actually 9 mil over. dammit this is confusing me this article is saying were only 1 mil over whats the right number lol?</P>


Thats the reference the posted article used for its cap info.

Meanwhile Schefter posted on twitter a couple days ago that the giants were 9 mil over.

Spedracer
02-22-2012, 01:46 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. smfh this is why i don't get into the MM is going to ask for this*/ Osi wants this type of money / we can't afford this arguments anymore cause its like two blind people trying to cross a road no seeing eye dog or kane

QFT.

I'd like to add to that by saying that despite Baas's less than stellar (or downright awful) performance in 2012. It is VERY hard to judge a player when they are injured. Canty and Boley both looked like FA busts back in 2009 when they were riddled with injuries. This year they both had above average years and are a positive veteran presence in the locker room.

Point is, David Baas deserves another year to prove himself and he will get that opportunity.

BlueJayC
02-22-2012, 01:47 PM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


<FONT color=#0000ff size=5>I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well
</FONT></P>


+1,000,000......my mouth is shut regarding any offseason moves......regardless of how outrageous they may seem.</P>

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 01:47 PM
I Would like to point out this is just proof that we arm chair GM's know nothing, everyone thinking were 9-16 mil over the cap. Or the sunsentinel is wrong and it is closer to 9 million over.</p>


who's the sunsentinel ? and are you saying it is! actually 9 mil over. dammit this is confusing me this article is saying were only 1 mil over whats the right number lol?</p>


Thats the reference the posted article used for its cap info.

Meanwhile Schefter posted on twitter a couple days ago that the giants were 9 mil over.

There are numbers all over the place. I'm guessing somewhere between $1M - $100M over at the moment [;)]

rainierjef
02-22-2012, 01:56 PM
lol 100 mil </P>


was baas injured all year? cause i remember our running game sucking from day one, i dont remember the extent of whatever injuries he accured and when he did.</P>

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM
lol 100 mil </p>


was baas injured all year? cause i remember our running game sucking from day one, i dont remember the extent of whatever injuries he accured and when he did.</p>

Baas missed some games and Boothe took over at center and did a good job in relief although his big butt gets in the way on the exchange. It was very noticeable in the shot gun. I think Boothe is a better run blocker but, in fairness to Baas, the Oline needs to work together more than any other unit on the team. We've not had that lately.

If we can improve the Oline and get the running game back on track we could easily be a contender again next season.

nygsb42champs
02-22-2012, 02:04 PM
Thanks RF for clearing that up.

RoanokeFan
02-22-2012, 02:08 PM
Thanks RF for clearing that up.

[;)]

NYGRealityCheck
02-22-2012, 06:38 PM
Financially this year, as RoanokeFan points out, the Giants can't cut Bass because of the signing bonus acceleration (1.7 mil per year for the next 4 years gets added back up to a big $6.8 mil one-time cap hit for the current season) if that happens. Bass' contract has 4 seasons left to go.

Although after June 1, they can spread that spread that over two seasons instead of taking one big hit , but it's still a big cap-hit in Bass's case regardless.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp
Btw, this is a good FAQ to learn about NFL Salary Cap, Contracts, bonuses, etc...

I also want to point out that Bass with $4.95 mil total cap-hit salary for 2012 at the Center position would make him one of the highest paid Centers in the league in 2012 for now.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/center/
(The website has him listed as Guard and that's why he's not on the list and I swear I'm not their spokesman)
Also note, FA Centers like Jeff Saturday, Matt Birk may end up with a bigger paycheck.

Baas' salary will only keep going up per year with his contract, but not as big as a jump from 2011 to 2012 season.

GreenZone
02-23-2012, 11:18 AM
What's more ridiculous than talking about a moving cap without some expertise from a capologist is people talking about throwing David Baas off the island.

He was injured from about week 3 on and like many, became relatively healthy by the time the Superbowl came around. Watch the O-Line only on SB replay before pretending to understand who the money players are. Baas completely neutralized Wilfork and thereafter whoever else went up against him. That, opposed to Wilfork being dominant against Baltimore the previous game.

I know, maybe if the Giants can drop Baas' salary, they can take a $6 million hit next year, then go out and sign a $6 million Center/Guard player that can maybe block almost as well.

It is/was the tackle positions which ended up exposing a line vulnerability in the season stretch. The interior, with healthy bodies, is rock solid.

TuckYou
02-23-2012, 11:31 AM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well
</P>


As fans, we can always question some of the moves Reese makes, I still question the Baas signing. But, after this season, I definitaly trust what he does that it is best for the Giants organization and he will do his best to make it work.</P>

GreenZone
02-23-2012, 11:39 AM
As fans, we can always question some of the moves Reese makes, I still question the Baas signing. But, after this season, I definitely trust what he does that it is best for the Giants organization and he will do his best to make it work.

There aren't many fans, including myself, who have much of a clue as to how well specific linemen are doing when watching a game live. You cannot watch the quarterback and the movement of the ball and also see the play of a specific lineman.
</p>

One gets a totally different picture as to linemen when watching their specific play in replay.</p>

The exception to that is when you see a sack or pressure and it is pointed out who was beat during a replay.
</p>


</p>


</p>

bklyn1028
02-23-2012, 11:40 AM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


<FONT color=#0000ff size=5>I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well
</FONT></P>


+1,000,000......my mouth is shut regarding any offseason moves......regardless of how outrageous they may seem.</P>

I also hope that statement includes Coughlin and Gilbride and Fewell at this point. I will be furious if this coming season if we happen to lose a couple and that comes up again....

BTW, I prediced months ago we would win the NFC East.....ready for 2012:

14-2.......Superbowl repeat.

Pack goes 10-6
Saints 9-7....( I don't like Brees)
Oh....San Fran........8-8 (NO WAY Harbaugh repeats, Smith returns to true form.)

RoanokeFan
02-23-2012, 11:51 AM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well
</p>


As fans, we can always question some of the moves Reese makes, I still question the Baas signing. But, after this season, I definitaly trust what he does that it is best for the Giants organization and he will do his best to make it work.</p>

When we believe we know more than they do, we're kidding ourselves. It's OK to question anything but then it's expected that we make an informed judgment which we really can't since we don't have all the information we would need to do that.

RoanokeFan
02-23-2012, 11:52 AM
it should also be pointed out, to credit Reese - that this would of left us at about 9 mil under waht the cap was expected to be a few years ago.


<font color="#0000ff" size="5">I hope most of us have gotten to the point where we trust Reese to do what they pay him to do and do it well
</font></p>


+1,000,000......my mouth is shut regarding any offseason moves......regardless of how outrageous they may seem.</p>

I also hope that statement includes Coughlin and Gilbride and Fewell at this point. I will be furious if this coming season if we happen to lose a couple and that comes up again....

BTW, I prediced months ago we would win the NFC East.....ready for 2012:

14-2.......Superbowl repeat.

Pack goes 10-6
Saints 9-7....( I don't like Brees)
Oh....San Fran........8-8 (NO WAY Harbaugh repeats, Smith returns to true form.)

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that if we lose the opening day game, calls for all of their heads will bubble to the surface like a fart unleashed under water.

GreenZone
02-23-2012, 11:59 AM
When we believe we know more than they do, we're kidding ourselves. It's OK to question anything but then it's expected that we make an informed judgment which we really can't since we don't have all the information we would need to do that.


More than that, when you can see something obvious, like in games where there has been a track meet getting around McKenzie and/or Diehl... even then, you don't know the extent of any injuries that might be preventing the player from performing at the normal, healthy level of performance.

Like Socrates pointed out, what the world calls wisdom and to those that called him wise, he said that to any extent that wisdom does exist in a human is to know how little wisdom we possess. (I think he played left tackle for the '49rs in the late 20s [;)] )

pica01
02-23-2012, 01:28 PM
I agree on Baas.Today the Jet's restructured Debrick's contract.Due 9.9 mil. they made 9 mil a signing bonus and saved 7.5 on this years cap.This obviously only works with a player you intend on keeping longterm,spreading that 9 mil over numerous years.If cut,like with Baas,it accelerates into that years cap.For instance,if Eli restructured this years 15 mil into a 13 mil signing bonus and 2 mil base we'de save a bundle cap wise this year.Good info RF.

gmen46
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
When we believe we know more than they do, we're kidding ourselves.* It's OK to question anything but then it's expected that we make an informed judgment which we really can't since we don't have all the information we would need to do that.


More than that, when you can see something obvious, like in games where there has been a track meet getting around McKenzie and/or Diehl... even then, you don't know the extent of any injuries that might be preventing the player from performing at the normal, healthy level of performance.

Like Socrates pointed out, what the world calls wisdom and to those that called him wise, he said that to any extent that wisdom does exist in a human is to know how little wisdom we possess. (I think he played left tackle for the '49rs in the late 20s [;)]* )


Modern day Socrates said it best---http://youtu.be/NHipzGL4dwM

Kase-1
02-23-2012, 01:41 PM
When we believe we know more than they do, we're kidding ourselves. It's OK to question anything but then it's expected that we make an informed judgment which we really can't since we don't have all the information we would need to do that.


More than that, when you can see something obvious, like in games where there has been a track meet getting around McKenzie and/or Diehl... even then, you don't know the extent of any injuries that might be preventing the player from performing at the normal, healthy level of performance.

Like Socrates pointed out, what the world calls wisdom and to those that called him wise, he said that to any extent that wisdom does exist in a human is to know how little wisdom we possess. (I think he played left tackle for the '49rs in the late 20s [;)] )


Modern day Socrates said it best---http://youtu.be/NHipzGL4dwMhttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/cowboy55_01/socrates.jpg
So-crates Johnson?? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EwaFkPMdlY)

Toadofsteel
02-23-2012, 01:50 PM
We all have our opinions, but I for one will trust reese in whatever he actually does in terms of offseason transactions and in the draft. We thought he was crazy drafting JPP, we wanted to strangle him when smith left. But JPP turned out okay (I think so anyway :P ), and instead of an injured aging Smith we got CRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ