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Giants firing drama, the silver lining, & the best GM/HC picks!

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  • Giants firing drama, the silver lining, & the best GM/HC picks!

    It's a long read, but worth it IMAO. If you want to see the GM/HC suggestion, skip to bottom, and read the blue text, which is most quotes about my GM/HC picks. It's not that long. It is well worth the read. Read it, I want your opinion.

    That was an ugly week, and I think everyone is happy now because the team and organization can more forward.

    Let's remember two people lost their job. That affects them, their families, etc. Even though they're well paid, it stings, and JR did bring us 2 Super Bowls. He inexplicably ignored the Oline and linebackers, when everyone from their grandmothers to Adam Schefter knew it was an area of need. He has no one to blame but himself. We had 5 disappointing years out of the last 6. McAdoo started with a bang, and he proved to be a good offensive coordinator. While as a Head Coach, his offense was terrible which is baffling since that is his alleged strong suit. 28 Games being held below 30 points with the best wideout in the league and Sterling Shepard. While he obviously has coaching skills, he was in over his head in dealing with people, the media, etc and leading the team. Like Reese, he couldn't take ownership and accountability for his actions or inaction, but instead put up a veneer of arrogance, which enflames New York fans and media. Hopefully he learned some things and we can't help but wish them success in their future. Reese was here since 1994-that is a long time. You have to feel for the guy, but again, he can only blame himself. I mean, our weaknesses were pretty obvious, and he ignored them for years, which frankly, is mind blowing. This isn't physics or quantum mechanics!

    Now, the silver lining is that they both got fired in season. This is exceptional for the Giants who, if anything, can too patient. We would have needed a long streak of poor performance to guarantee McAdoo's firing. This was only his second year, and most times, the Giants would've kept him at least 1 more year, and probably 2. Reese's tenure looked like it was a guarantee to end after the season. Luckily McAdoo made so many awful missteps that it forced the Giants to act way ahead of their normal M.O. Ifhe didn't make those mistakes he possibly could have returned even with a new GM, which then likely would have been in an house hire. So count us lucky. We don't need a good coordinator, we need a leader, motivator, and someone who will hold these guys accountable.

    So due to Reese's bad drafts and signings, and the teams poor performance, in conjunction with our ex-Head Coaches mismanagement and very noticeable mistakes, it alll but ensures that the Giants will likely look outside and make huge changes. I find it telling that Mr Mara said "wholesale changes" multiple times.

    Now obviously, part of the bad performance was due to the talent level being depleted due to injuries. If healthy, we do have talent. We aren't the Browns. However, 2013-2015 we lead the league in starter lost time and number of injuries, which we have so ingloriously done again 2017. They need to look into this and revamp strength and conditioning, practice, etc because this just isn't bad luck-the law of averages should be occurring by now. That bodes well. We honestly don't need a rebuild, but the "retooling" phrase is stale. We obviously need to fix the Oline especially with our best linemen hitting free agency, and we need linebackers who can cover, not to mention, we need our future QB. Eli still has football left in him, and this summer will probably be the time Eli works the hardest, and even with Webb on the roster, it still shouldn't stop us from drafting Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield.

    Anyway, here are some HC and GM ideas. Some of these names are being thrown about. Unfortunately, some of the "hot" names like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, etc were swiped up last year. Sean McVay would have been perfect, especially with his Giants bloodlines, but we can't try to find our McVay-wee need to get our next Head Coach for the next decade plus.

    On a quick aside: I feel bad for Spags. Spags has been great for the most part with us. He is one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. He also got valuable Head Coaching experience in St Louis, albeit it was a tough tenure. Not all Head Coaches start out successfully and enjoy continued excellence-it is a tough job, tough league, and you don't get a long leash. Spags deserves another shot. However, Mr Mara said, we need "wholesale changes." This won't happen with Spags being promoted I don't think. Unfortunately he left to St Louis, TC was fired, and was overlooked when McAdoo was hired. Maybe Spags was the right choice then. I love Spags. While I agree with the philosophy of "hiring from within" we need a fresh perspective and new culture here. Interim GM Kevin McNamara and Spags are knowledgeable and respected, but they can't come in fresh and instill a completely new culture and philosophy like Sean MCVay has done in LA for example. It just sucks we have likely pass over our "in house hires." It is just the situation now. We need a fresh start. McNamara has been working hard for us for years, and Spags is on his second tour and was overlooked once already. But while Reese's vision and voice the past 11 years were the final say, McNamara was part of that philosophy and involved in the choices. We cannot continue this. For a team that builds through the draft, we have missed on too many picks. We just need a fresh perspective.

    Now as far as head coach criteria. No retreads like a Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, or Mike Smith. No hiring young "sexy" candidates either for the sake of making a splash. I do not condone ageism and just because someone is old doesn't mean they can't connect to today's players, or cannot be innovative. For example, Mike Zimmer, the longtime Bengal coordinator was overlooked time and again. He finally got a shot with Minnesota and except for a slump last year, he changed the culture in Viking land. The logic that "he must of been overlooked for a reason" is specious and weak. There are only 32 jobs. Sometimes it's just bad luck. Head Coaching experience is a plus, but not required. \e want someone with new ideas and can handle NY, and is a leader. McAdoo might have been a good coordinator, but he sucked at leading and was terrible with people.

    Now while Andy Reid hasn't won the big one, he has been a wining coach, and his coaching tree is impressive. Dave Toub is a good example of an older coach who is knowledgable, loved by his players, and deserves a chance. He could be a good candidate for us (more on that shortly. I wanted NJ Native Dan Quinn before he went to Atlanta and Pre-LA Sean MVcVay before they were hired. The former was my choice for a D centric coach, while McVay was my Offensive minded candidate. Both hav done well, and changed the cultures in places that were struggling.

    Now, Josh McDaniels is a name often tossed about. He has experience and likely learned a lot in Denver However, Brady publicly ripping on him on the sidelines and him coming from NE worry me. Some how Bellicheck made being gruff publicly while saying almost nothing acceptable-that wouldn't fly in NY methinks. He couldn't pull that here.

    Nick Caserio is an intriguing candidate. He's NE's director of player development. NE somehow unceremoniously discards players seeming ly prematurely-Jamie Collins, Wes Welker, etc yet get wholesale loyalty. You'd think the players would d be privy to NE being all about business despite talk about the team. They usually don't give big contracts which a lot of these guys want. Scott Pioli, another ex- NE exec is a good candidate for GM. He also helped build the current Chiefs-a stout D (but injured) and a slew of skill players on Offense. They've hit a lot in the late rounds. Speaking of KC, John Dorsey, an ex-Linebacker lost a power struggle with Andy Reidd in KC. He also had a hand on their roster. Being an ex-llinebacker, you know he won't ignore the position. Dave Gentlemen used to work for us, and then he built the Panthers team but was ousted recently. What's weird is he drafted linebackers in Carolina yet he is a Reese disciple! WTF! He had some friction in Carolina which is worrisome and he butted heads with players such as Steve Smith and DeAngleo Williams who blasted him publicly on Twitter. Players ranting about their former GM? That is bizarre and troubling despite his successful track record building the Panthers team. Scott McCloughan was the Redskins GM who was let go last year. He worked in Seattle in personnel during the time they built their Super Bowl winning roster, and also helped make the 49ers competitive during the Harbaugh era when he was there and made the Redskins a competitive team while he was GM 2015-2016. He could be a good candidate to look at.

    Here are my choices. All these are compelling names. For GM, Scott Fitterer. He is an ex-minor leaguer and then Mike Holmgren hired him in Seattle as a scout, and he paid his dues and worked his way up to Director of Player Development or Head of Scouting. He had a hand in the drafts of Russell Wilson, Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, and omg, a linebacker! Bobby Wagner He is young, innovative, and is proactive to league trends-e.g. he got big CBs on the roster before they were en vogue.

    Here is a good read on him. He's interviewed before. I pay no mind to prior rejections. McAdooo got hired after his first HC interview. He knew how to say all the right things then obviously, but didn't know how to actually do them. Just because someone has been didn't get the job doesn't mean they're not worthy. These jobs are few and far between, and good ones will be overlooked. For my second choice, I'd think Dorsey would be a good choice. He built a solid roster in KC for Reid. Scott McCloughan would be my 2A choice. Dave Gentlemen has Giant roots, but his spat with multiple Panther players is troubling. He worked with Reese and despite building a different type roster in Carolina, he'd likely be more of the same.

    Here is the link to info on Fetterer when he interviewed for the Colts GM spot:

    Before you blast an disciple of an ex-Philly Head Coach, hear me out. Andy Reid is a good coach and has an impressive coaching tree despite his not winning the big one. John Harbaugh is from the Andy Reid School. Now, he's not a young stud like Sean McCoy or Sean McDermott. He is like Mike Zimmer who got passed over and over until he got a shot with the Vikings. Dave Toub has run excellent Special Teams in Philly and KC for Reid. He ran Hester, and now Tyreke Hill in KC. We don't need a coordinator. We need a leader. Everything I've read on this guy is that he's smart, his players love him, and he gets results. Watch his interviews, you can't help but like him. We need a leader, and that is what he does. He's been overlooked because he is such a good special teams leader, that no one will move him to another position, and he gets overlooked because of it. Talk about a curse. He's only 55. Plus he's a New Yorker!

    Look at what Jason LaCanfora wrote about him:
    Here's the link:

    "please allow me to stump for Dave Toub. Yes, Dave Toub. And the fact you have no idea who the hell he is, in and of itself, is indicative of the kind of tail-wagging that has been going on with these searches for far too long.
    Toub is the stud special teams coach for Andy Reid in Kansas City. He's the guy who has been helping win games for the Chiefs with big returns and fake punts and shifting field position and motivating men and outsmarting his opponents. And before that, he was the guy behind the perennially dominant special teams in Chicago (2004-12). Oh, and before that he led Reid's special teams units in Philly (2001-03), which were also generally top notch. He's the guy behind Devin Hester and Robbie Gould and, lately, Chiefs dervish Tyreek Hill.

    Many of his players over the years have told me Toub should be leading an entire team, not merely one unit. He's a leader of men. He commands respect. He gets the best out of players. He is arguably the best coach on Reid's esteemed staff in Kansas City, and Reid has been nothing but a developer of NFL coaches. He grows them. And Toub is one of his best, yet the fact that he coaches special teams works against him. That still remains true in spite of Hall of Famers like George Allen and Marv Levy were coaches who came through the special teams pipeline, not to mention Bobby Ross or Baltimore's John Harbaugh, another one of Reid's disciples.

    Dave Toub is loved by his players and respected by his peers.
    "He's a combination of Harbaugh and John Madden," one of Toub's former colleagues said. "He is the real deal. This guy can coach. Period. He's a big guy, physically, who can take over a room when he has to. He gets people to buy in. These guys love playing for him. He comes from a great [coaching] family tree. Look at Andy Reid's assistants over the years. This guy is ready. All he needs is a chance."

    A personnel exec who used to work with Toub, 54, said: "If Dave Toub can't get a job in this league, then I give up. Talk to other coaches in the league. They know who is for real and who is horse**** or the flavor of the month. This guy can coach a football team. He'd be the first guy I'd talk to, and it isn't even really close."

    Toub has been involved in head coaching searches before, interviewing with the Dolphins when they hired Joe Philbin (how did that work out for them?) and the Bears in 2013 (when they hired Marc Trestman -- yikes). He has been under consideration for many more, but general managers have been scared to pull the trigger. I spoke to two of them a year ago about Toub, a former all-WAC offensive lineman who was drafted in the ninth round by the Eagles but never made it on to an NFL roster. Both agreed he was a hell of a coach and an inspired thought to run a team and that he merited a chance, but then both essentially ruled it out in the end because they needed to develop a quarterback and were locked into going offense. Neither guy who was eventually hired, by the way, is what I would call especially safe even only one year in.

    Another exec who knows him said: "Superb at what he does and by a million miles the best special teams coach in the league. He is an A-plus guy."

    You can find a quarterback coach and offensive coordinator to work with the passers. It doesn't have to define the entire coaching search. I would actually assert that special teams coaches are ahead of the curve in that they already must address players from both sides of the ball, and in essence the entire team with regularity. They aren't dealing with merely those certain position groups. Besides the head coach, the special teams coach is the only guy on the staff entrusted with clock management and other in-game responsibilities. He also must adjust to losing more players than any other unit. A special teams coach comes in with no inherent bias to either side of the ball, and thus no sentimental ties or desires of offense over defense (or vice versa) in terms of roster composition with the GM.

    -- An NFL coach on Dave Toub"

    Tell me, he doesn't sound like a good candidate. No Gruden, no Cowher, no Mike Smith. I'd support Josh McDaniel and Scott Pioli, but I don't want Patriots 2.0 here. I want new guys with fresh ideas who make their own way, and create "The Giant Way" again.

    I think Fetterer as GM and Toub as Head Coach could bring us back to dominance. They have good track records, are smart, get results, and Toub seems to be well respected, loved by his players, and should make an awesome Head Coach. I think he'll obviously lead and hire smart coordinators instead of being an arrogant dummy and calling plays while trying to lead a team. The analysis on Toub is really compelling. He sounds like the perfect leader to run this team. Plus, no more "freaks," "projects," or "high ceiling" draft picks. We need football players. We need leaders. Despite the drama the past 10 days, it's already starting to get better. Can't you feel it. NO more predictable McAdoo offense. We should be back in the playoffs next year. ;-)

    Let's go Giants!

  • #2
    Thank you for posting this. Iím interested to learn more about these guys.


    • #3
      I've been hearing a lot of chatter about Toub lately, to the point where imo he is no longer an unkown.

      Depending on who his o and d coordinators would be, i could definitely be on board.


      • #4
        Nice post man!! I can't quite get behind a McDaniels hire though and I have some pushback in regard to needing to clean the entire house, specifically when dealing with Spags. At the very least, it would be great if he could stick around as DC. Obviously, it would be the new HC's decision, as it should be, but hopefully the new HC would be willing to take serious consideration into it. I get the idea of sweeping the house fresh. I mean, it seems logical. However, I don't think dropping the nuke is always the best idea especially when there are still good coaches on our staff. They shouldnt be counted out automatically just because their bosses failed.

        It should be interesting seeing what names come out as both NFL and NCAA come to an end. Who knows, maybe there's a DII coach out there with some NFL experience who is a mad genius and would be the perfect fit. If we're talking about changing the culture completely then we have to keep our options open which might include some very obscure names.

        Here's one for ya... Peyton Manning. Wouldn't that be an earth shattering shot heard around the world? It's fantasy talk being that a year ago he said he didn't want to coach but I think he was saying that mostly in response to being a QB coach. I wonder though, if he was given the keys to the top position if he'd look at things differently. Normally if you think about former players becoming HCs there is a process that you work through, specialty coaches to coordinators, etc... But, if there was one person who could skip straight to the top it's Peyton. He's a football genius, maticulous in his preparation and big brothers never go easy on their little brothers. Again, it's fantasy but I would be open to the idea.


        • #5
          Here are the latest odds:

 has compiled an impressive list of contenders.

          MIKE SMITH +350

          JOSH MCDANIELS + 400

          FRANK REICH +550

          TERYL AUSTIN +550

          MATT PATRICIA +1200

          DAVE TOUB +1500

          SCOTT LINEHAN +1500

          JIM HARBAUGH +1800

          JIM SCHWARTZ +2000

          PAT SHURMUR +2200

          BRIAN KELLY +2300

          JON GRUDEN +2500

          BILL COWHER +6000

          DAVID SHAW +6000

          NICK SABAN +8000

          FIELD +250


          • #6
            Waiting till season is over and probably going to leave the interns alone for last 4 games. And is it true you can't contact coaches on other teams that are still in Playoffs??

            Now many of you might kill me on this and say it will never happen, dumb idea, he would not leave while his QB is still playing, on and on.

            However how many saw him take that old Giants Stadium tour through the catacombs and inner rooms of that storied stadium. How many watched him cry and I have heard he would want to close out his career here. Who and I speaking of??? A guy that should of got the job over Handley or even brought here after his failed stint in Cleveland

            This is from Jan 2016 when TC left. But now could be the time:


            Just another name to throw in the ring.. If he and Brady win another that could be retirement for Brady
            Football has been very, very good to us.
            After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
            But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

            # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

            1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
            2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
            3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
            4-New York Giants!!!
            Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

            ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***


            • #7
              Originally posted by BIG_Blue_87 View Post
              I've been hearing a lot of chatter about Toub lately, to the point where imo he is no longer an unknown.

              Depending on who his o and d coordinators would be, i could definitely be on board.
              Toub is definitely an interesting name. Chiefs visited the Meadowlands twice this year (and were just here this past Sunday) so someone could have even approached him or spoken to him already (even if it is against the rules). Also, with Toub, there's a possibility Spags would remain defensive coordinator (whether you agree with that or not) due to the Reid connection.
              Last edited by repeatchamps; 12-06-2017, 01:49 PM.
              Over 7000 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35


              • #8
                Thanks for reading guys, and the nice compliments. Wow, can't believe there are odds on the Giants head coaching search. I cannot imagine Harbaugh or Saban as Head Coach for some reason. Allegedly Saban was close in 1997, and again before TC was hired. He's got such a good gig in Alabama and I couldn't see him leaving. Also Harbaugh is at his alma mater at Michigan-he's got a good gig there. The odds list is interesting though-Mike Smith is the top candidate allegedly besides McDaniels? Hmm.


                • #9
                  So, Toub has beena specisl team coach and has not moved up the ladder. You think someone would have promoted him to OC.
                  I say NO TO TOUB.
                  I don't want another person that has not been a head OC or DC.
                  I don't want Mike Smith either.


                  • #10
                    The fact that Toub is just the special teams coordinator scaresme a bit. But I do think we need someone that connects with players and is a leader that can inspire players to do their best. Sometimes you just gotta give someone a chance.