Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
    I think that the front office was aiming toward the Colts model when Peyton was around. Book End DEs and a high octane offense. We got 1 SB out of it (2007 doesn't count as that was before Eli's big contract and before we had to worry about salary cap) so I guess it was a success. The issue is that we have a poor man's version of what the Colts had. Our DEs aren't as good and Eli isn't Peyton. When Peyton went down the Colts were 2-14. Eli stinks up the join and we're 0-6.
    lol all valid points. What does that say about the "Colts model" though? it cant always work the way you want. you have to have more than 1 piece.

    That being said, there are very few circumstances where a team can REALLY WIN with a less than stellar QB....
    Oderint Dum Metuant

    It's too bad, I'm too good....

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      I am going to assume that I can put you on the "its never Eli's fault" list along with 420 and Dark Saint.
      That's about as fair as me telling you that you are an "Eli Hater" and that you think he's the only reason we are a bad team this year.

      I'm not saying none of this is on Eli...what I'm saying is the giants organization from top to bottom should have seen this coming, Bad O-Line, underwhelming defense a absolutely terrible offensive scheme..

      throw a guy whose always been a little "gunslingerish" into that equation and from there 16 ints is pretty much simple arithmetic, should Eli curb his gunslinger attitude...probably but that's part of what makes him good too it's the same as how David Wilsons kind of a crappy running back when he's hunched over holding onto the ball with both arms.

      you don't change the style of a good player if it's detrimental to their play, Jerry Reese and Kevin Gilbride (and yes Tom Coughlin at this point) let this team start the season and they did so knowing full well that if they put Eli into the type of situation he is in now he was going to throw int's, you want to argue over how many is too many...go ahead..but they darn well should have known it was going to be objectively "a lot" of int's in this situation.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
        lol all valid points. What does that say about the "Colts model" though? it cant always work the way you want. you have to have more than 1 piece.

        That being said, there are very few circumstances where a team can REALLY WIN with a less than stellar QB....
        Yeah, I don't think the model works. But that's where we were going. Drafting DEs every year etc, which we did ok on, but we really crapped the bed on olinemen. I'm starting to think this getting pressure with front 4 model just isn't viable.
        http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
        http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
        http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

        Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
          Yeah, I don't think the model works. But that's where we were going. Drafting DEs every year etc, which we did ok on, but we really crapped the bed on olinemen. I'm starting to think this getting pressure with front 4 model just isn't viable.
          i think they COULD have pulled it off, but we MAY have drafted in the wrong order lol. I'm not convinced that JPP was the right choice in 2010. Looking back at the draft picks though, it's actually might have been better than the alternative. The 1st rounders we've taken as of late, i agree with....buttttt everything after that, I dont really understand. I think a lot of people thinks this year's draft was our worst....but, that's because we had a TON of wasted picks the previous 3+ years. but...you know what they say about hindsight....
          Oderint Dum Metuant

          It's too bad, I'm too good....

          Comment


          • also....we havent touched free agency since Rolle, who is overpaid anyway....
            Oderint Dum Metuant

            It's too bad, I'm too good....

            Comment


            • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
              So why are you so fixated on Eli?
              I picture you typing away on your laptop throwing darts at a dart board with Elis face on it.
              Well I can't imagine.
              Might it be that he is the QB...the most important position on the field?
              Might it be that he has 15 picks. More than any team in the league?
              Might it be that he's thrown 6 picks in the last 2 games?
              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                That's about as fair as me telling you that you are an "Eli Hater" and that you think he's the only reason we are a bad team this year.

                I'm not saying none of this is on Eli...what I'm saying is the giants organization from top to bottom should have seen this coming, Bad O-Line, underwhelming defense a absolutely terrible offensive scheme..

                throw a guy whose always been a little "gunslingerish" into that equation and from there 16 ints is pretty much simple arithmetic, should Eli curb his gunslinger attitude...probably but that's part of what makes him good too it's the same as how David Wilsons kind of a crappy running back when he's hunched over holding onto the ball with both arms.

                you don't change the style of a good player if it's detrimental to their play, Jerry Reese and Kevin Gilbride (and yes Tom Coughlin at this point) let this team start the season and they did so knowing full well that if they put Eli into the type of situation he is in now he was going to throw int's, you want to argue over how many is too many...go ahead..but they darn well should have known it was going to be objectively "a lot" of int's in this situation.
                I don't think anyone in the FO expected Eli to be as bad as he is now though. A good "franichse" player should be able to mask some of the team's deficiencies. Eli did that in 2011. I'm not excusing the OL, but Eli had a large hand in us losing to the Eagles, Bears, Cowboys. It's not out of the realm of possibility to say that if Eli played like 2012 Eli, we'd be .500 right now - horrible OL and all.

                The organisation is to blame with their crap drafting of OLine, but I don't think anyone thought Eli would react that way he has.
                http://boards.giants.com/showthread....est-game/page6
                http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html
                http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8732732/is-new-york-giants-qb-eli-manning-worthy-hall-fame-espn-magazine

                Entire Team Let Eli down today - NYG4l

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                  That's about as fair as me telling you that you are an "Eli Hater" and that you think he's the only reason we are a bad team this year.

                  I'm not saying none of this is on Eli...what I'm saying is the giants organization from top to bottom should have seen this coming, Bad O-Line, underwhelming defense a absolutely terrible offensive scheme..

                  throw a guy whose always been a little "gunslingerish" into that equation and from there 16 ints is pretty much simple arithmetic, should Eli curb his gunslinger attitude...probably but that's part of what makes him good too it's the same as how David Wilsons kind of a crappy running back when he's hunched over holding onto the ball with both arms.

                  you don't change the style of a good player if it's detrimental to their play, Jerry Reese and Kevin Gilbride (and yes Tom Coughlin at this point) let this team start the season and they did so knowing full well that if they put Eli into the type of situation he is in now he was going to throw int's, you want to argue over how many is too many...go ahead..but they darn well should have known it was going to be objectively "a lot" of int's in this situation.
                  I don't know why you guys can't see what Eli is.
                  Yes he's a good QB. But he needs things to be just so. He needs a good O line. He needs a good WR corps. And he needs a defense to cover for him when he throws bad picks.
                  So...give Eli plenty of time to throw and give him guys who get open and he can make the throws. And add the fact that he's shown a lot of clutch play. But he has problems coping when things go bad. He loses confidence and starts making bonehead plays.

                  And someone said that "Eli throws interceptions and thats the way he is" (paraphrasing) Look at what he is famous for. Look at what has made his career....The two playoff runs in 2007 and 2011. What do they have in common?
                  His yards and TD's are right in line with his career averages. Its the turnovers. Its the picks....2 picks in 8 games.
                  So yes...Eli throws picks. When he does we are an average team and he's an average QB. When he doesn't..... we are a championship team.
                  So this notion that we should just accept Eli's picks is defied by his history. I do NOT accept his picks.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                    I don't think anyone in the FO expected Eli to be as bad as he is now though. A good "franichse" player should be able to mask some of the team's deficiencies. Eli did that in 2011. I'm not excusing the OL, but Eli had a large hand in us losing to the Eagles, Bears, Cowboys. It's not out of the realm of possibility to say that if Eli played like 2012 Eli, we'd be .500 right now - horrible OL and all.

                    The organisation is to blame with their crap drafting of OLine, but I don't think anyone thought Eli would react that way he has.
                    To be fair, ELI was also the only reason we were IN the cowboys and eagles games to begin with lol....

                    The chicago game we at LEAST had some sort of run game, which was nice. But yea, the division games thus far could have been won BECAUSE of Eli....but ended up being lost for the same reasons. But, like we've been discussing all day, I'm not putting all the focus on Eli for the losses and all the turnover issues....
                    Oderint Dum Metuant

                    It's too bad, I'm too good....

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
                      To be fair, ELI was also the only reason we were IN the cowboys and eagles games to begin with lol....

                      The chicago game we at LEAST had some sort of run game, which was nice. But yea, the division games thus far could have been won BECAUSE of Eli....but ended up being lost for the same reasons. But, like we've been discussing all day, I'm not putting all the focus on Eli for the losses and all the turnover issues....
                      That's a joke.....right?
                      I mean you DID "lol".
                      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                        That's a joke.....right?
                        I mean you DID "lol".
                        Did you see the Giants scoring any other way? I sure didnt see any points on the board....
                        Oderint Dum Metuant

                        It's too bad, I'm too good....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gumby74 View Post
                          I don't think anyone in the FO expected Eli to be as bad as he is now though. A good "franichse" player should be able to mask some of the team's deficiencies. Eli did that in 2011. I'm not excusing the OL, but Eli had a large hand in us losing to the Eagles, Bears, Cowboys. It's not out of the realm of possibility to say that if Eli played like 2012 Eli, we'd be .500 right now - horrible OL and all.

                          The organisation is to blame with their crap drafting of OLine, but I don't think anyone thought Eli would react that way he has.
                          That's the problem though, they should know Eli by now well enough to understand what he does and doesn't do.

                          He's been covering up our teams deficiencies for years...both our SB winning teams had deficiencies...which were covered up by Eli (and a strong D-Line)
                          I think the problem is our FO took for granted that Eli would always cover up for our teams deficiencies and now Eli is having a down year and it's not happening and this is the result, you can't ignore problems and say "Our MVP QB's got this" year after year after year..eventually it becomes too much.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
                            Did you see the Giants scoring any other way? I sure didnt see any points on the board....
                            So our offense turns it over 6 times, including 3 int's with a pick 6 and HE is the reason we're still in the game.
                            The offense gave up 14 points directly and another FG with the Ware pick when the defense stuffed them.
                            Eli and the offense moved the ball well but the turnovers were the reason we lost. And Eli had 4 of them.
                            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                              That's the problem though, they should know Eli by now well enough to understand what he does and doesn't do.

                              He's been covering up our teams deficiencies for years...both our SB winning teams had deficiencies...which were covered up by Eli (and a strong D-Line)
                              I think the problem is our FO took for granted that Eli would always cover up for our teams deficiencies and now Eli is having a down year and it's not happening and this is the result, you can't ignore problems and say "Our MVP QB's got this" year after year after year..eventually it becomes too much.
                              If you want to blame JR for giving us this crap O line I completely agree.
                              But I am not blaming JR, KG, TC or anyone other than Eli for some of the crap decisions he's made. Many of which have been daggers for our chances of winning games.
                              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                                So our offense turns it over 6 times, including 3 int's with a pick 6 and HE is the reason we're still in the game.
                                The offense gave up 14 points directly and another FG with the Ware pick when the defense stuffed them.
                                Eli and the offense moved the ball well but the turnovers were the reason we lost. And Eli had 4 of them.
                                Youre right. i would have much rather lost the game in the first quarter and just get shut out all season.
                                Oderint Dum Metuant

                                It's too bad, I'm too good....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X