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  • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
    I appreciate the commentary of my commentary on my commentary, but, as I get back to the point, I don't think present-day circumstances have changed enough to conclude that it's no longer feasible to redshirt a rookie QB. To the contrary, I'd say today's system with the rookie wage scale is more conducive to redshirting high draft picks (especially since they don't require 50 million guaranteed, like Sam Bradford got from the Rams), and that if a team really saw the benefit in doing it, they would do it.
    They still get paid a tremendous amount of money. Then if you sit him, you have to pay the starting QB, starting QB money....thus breaking the cap.

    The reasons they don't tend to sit highly drafted rookies have little to do with the long term benefit of the player. They have to do with money, the cap, expectations, our ADD society.....and a bunch of other reasons than the best way to develop a player.
    Last edited by Morehead State; 03-21-2016, 11:43 AM.
    Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      They still get paid a tremendous amount of money. Then if you sit him, you have to pay the starting QB, starting QB money....thus breaking the cap.
      "Breaking the cap"?

      Jameis Winston, #1 overall, had a cap hit of 4.5 mil last year, and under 6 mil this year. Since we're only talking about a one year redshirt, what figure breaks the cap? 20 million? 25 million? That would mean that the QB starting in this rookie redshirt year would need to hit the cap at 15.5-20.5 million dollars. That's Andy Dalton and Alex Smith-type money. Those QBs, however, are not heading up teams that take QBs very early, so it's a scenario that we don't come across often (or ever, really).

      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      The reasons they don't tend to sit highly drafted rookies have little to do with the long term benefit of the player.
      Probably because there are very few long-term benefits that can be convincingly linked to the practice.

      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
      They have to do with money, the cap, expectations, our ADD society.....and a bunch of other reasons than the best way to develop a player.
      Cap structure is more conducive to the practice today, expectations are and always have been high, and..."ADD society"? Are we just conflating your "this generation sucks" ideas with your current misconceptions?
      My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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      • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
        ADD society"? Are we just conflating your "this generation sucks" ideas with your current misconceptions?
        OHHHHH!!!!!!
        Oderint Dum Metuant

        It's too bad, I'm too good....

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        • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
          "Breaking the cap"?

          Jameis Winston, #1 overall, had a cap hit of 4.5 mil last year, and under 6 mil this year. Since we're only talking about a one year redshirt, what figure breaks the cap? 20 million? 25 million? That would mean that the QB starting in this rookie redshirt year would need to hit the cap at 15.5-20.5 million dollars. That's Andy Dalton and Alex Smith-type money. Those QBs, however, are not heading up teams that take QBs very early, so it's a scenario that we don't come across often (or ever, really).

          Probably because there are very few long-term benefits that can be convincingly linked to the practice.

          Cap structure is more conducive to the practice today, expectations are and always have been high, and..."ADD society"? Are we just conflating your "this generation sucks" ideas with your current misconceptions?
          Ask Tim Couch, David Carr or RGIII if it was good for them to be thrown onto the field right away.
          Often it's better to have them sit and learn. Not always of course. If you have a productive offense in place,,,especially a solid O line it can be fine to start them as rookies. But it's also true that some young players would benefit from sitting.

          Sorry....All your paragraphs of chatter won't change that fact.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
            Ask Tim Couch, David Carr or RGIII if it was good for them to be thrown onto the field right away.
            Often it's better to have them sit and learn. Not always of course. If you have a productive offense in place,,,especially a solid O line it can be fine to start them as rookies. But it's also true that some young players would benefit from sitting.

            Sorry....All your paragraphs of chatter won't change that fact.
            Lol, RG3 was sensational his rookie year. I mean, since then, he's basically been redshirting. So he should be building off of that, no? I'm sure he'll go to his next franchise and turn all of those valuable lessons and *** splinters into exceptional play!!

            And as for Tim Couch and David Carr, I'm sure they would've sucked on those teams even if they let some other mediocre QB in front of them get the **** kicked out of them for 16 games. The Browns have been awful, and the Texans have been struggling to build something for as long as they've been reinstated and founded, respectively.
            My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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            • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
              Lol, RG3 was sensational his rookie year. I mean, since then, he's basically been redshirting due to injuries. So he should be building off of that, no? I'm sure he'll go to his next franchise and turn all of those valuable lessons and *** splinters into exceptional play!!

              And as for Tim Couch and David Carr, I'm sure they would've sucked on those teams even if they let some other mediocre QB in front of them get the **** kicked out of them for 16 games. The Browns have been awful, and the Texans have been struggling to build something for as long as they've been reinstated and founded, respectively.
              RG tore up his knee as a rookie and hasn't been the same since. He thought he could just play like he did in the NFL as he did in college. His coaches didn't help him much either.
              David Carr was essentially the most sacked QB in NFL history. He was completely shell shocked and lost his nerve as an NFL QB. They didn't bother protecting him.
              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                RG tore up his knee as a rookie and hasn't been the same since. He thought he could just play like he did in the NFL as he did in college. His coaches didn't help him much either.
                If his coaches weren't helping him much, then it'd be logical to conclude that the same result could be expected whether they turned him loose after 8 games, or 24 games.
                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                David Carr was essentially the most sacked QB in NFL history. He was completely shell shocked and lost his nerve as an NFL QB. They didn't bother protecting him.
                You're right, they didn't bother protecting him. Not in year 1, or in year 2, 3, or 4. He was doomed to fail as is.
                My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
                  If his coaches weren't helping him much, then it'd be logical to conclude that the same result could be expected whether they turned him loose after 8 games, or 24 games.
                  You're right, they didn't bother protecting him. Not in year 1, or in year 2, 3, or 4. He was doomed to fail as is.
                  So is it your position that a player learns nothing about the NFL while sitting?

                  I disagree. But you are free to have whatever view you want.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by gmen0820 View Post
                    Lol, RG3 was sensational his rookie year. I mean, since then, he's basically been redshirting. So he should be building off of that, no? I'm sure he'll go to his next franchise and turn all of those valuable lessons and *** splinters into exceptional play!!

                    And as for Tim Couch and David Carr, I'm sure they would've sucked on those teams even if they let some other mediocre QB in front of them get the **** kicked out of them for 16 games. The Browns have been awful, and the Texans have been struggling to build something for as long as they've been reinstated and founded, respectively.

                    I think this is the ideal time to mention how much you think Ruben Randle sucks and that the Giants were wise to dump his ***. And now that he's gone we desperately need a WR and should draft one in the first round.

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                    • bill in here eating moreheads lunch
                      "I punched the **** out of em in the back with an uppercut"
                      - Marshawn Lynch

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                      • Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
                        I think this is the ideal time to mention how much you think Ruben Randle sucks and that the Giants were wise to dump his ***. And now that he's gone we desperately need a WR and should draft one in the first round.
                        no draftable recievers in the first tyler boyd the only good one in the draft and should be there in the second
                        "I punched the **** out of em in the back with an uppercut"
                        - Marshawn Lynch

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                        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                          RG tore up his knee as a rookie and hasn't been the same since. He thought he could just play like he did in the NFL as he did in college. His coaches didn't help him much either.
                          David Carr was essentially the most sacked QB in NFL history. He was completely shell shocked and lost his nerve as an NFL QB. They didn't bother protecting him.
                          David Carr's career was the result of an expansion team having no idea how to build a team. they just thought they needed the best QB available in their very first year. Meanwhile, they had no pieces around him, specifically, no offensive line...at all....
                          Oderint Dum Metuant

                          It's too bad, I'm too good....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            So is it your position that a player learns nothing about the NFL while sitting?
                            Nope.

                            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            I disagree.
                            Samesies.

                            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                            But you are free to have whatever view you want.
                            I was already aware of that right.
                            My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by gurujot View Post
                              bill in here eating moreheads lunch
                              feasting like a mantis
                              My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
                                David Carr's career was the result of an expansion team having no idea how to build a team. they just thought they needed the best QB available in their very first year. Meanwhile, they had no pieces around him, specifically, no offensive line...at all....
                                David Carr had ability and was ruined by the Houston Texans.

                                The difference between first round QB's who make it and those that don't is generally between the ears. It's mental plus it's confidence.

                                Each QB has their own set of circumstances. Some would benefit from sitting, some are OK starting right away. The team's situation also has a lot to do with it.

                                They tend to start guys now because they pretty much have to. That is just the reality of today's NFL.
                                It's not because there has been some new revelation about the benefits of starting a guy game 1.
                                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                                Comment

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