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  • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
    Im not religious by any means. Its not a left or right thing, its fact. Founding Fathers were a bunch of Protestants. Read the Declaration.
    Your problem seems to be with the people who hide behind religion.
    Yes, they were religious, but they recognized the danger behind having direct religious representation in the government.

    I like how youre telling me to read the Declaration.....but, based on that it seems you have no idea what is actually in that document. I assure you it has NOTHING to do with founding anything on religion.

    So I ask in the nicest way I know how:
    What the **** are you babbling about?
    Oderint Dum Metuant

    It's too bad, I'm too good....

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
      Do you masturbate in front of a mirror too?
      Doesn't everybody?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jmike View Post
        Doesn't everybody?
        You know know it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
          Yes, they were religious, but they recognized the danger behind having direct religious representation in the government.

          I like how youre telling me to read the Declaration.....but, based on that it seems you have no idea what is actually in that document. I assure you it has NOTHING to do with founding anything on religion.

          So I ask in the nicest way I know how:
          What the **** are you babbling about?
          some quotes

          Nature's God entitle them
          they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
          While not specifically religious the belief in god in itself is religious and the existence of said god is put forth as fact in the creating document of this country. Personally I have no issue with the choice of words since most people in the world do acknowledge a god in some way shape or form and all the people in that room obviously did as well. They were not really concerned with the PC backlash from the media at the time.

          Could you imagine if this took place in 2016?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jmike View Post
            some quotes





            While not specifically religious the belief in god in itself is religious and the existence of said god is put forth as fact in the creating document of this country. Personally I have no issue with the choice of words since most people in the world do acknowledge a god in some way shape or form and all the people in that room obviously did as well. The were not really concerned with the PC backlash from the media at the time.

            Could you imagine if this took place in 2016?
            Yea, it's referring to natural law....it's saying it doesn't matter who you are, we all have rights.
            Oderint Dum Metuant

            It's too bad, I'm too good....

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
              Yes, they were religious, but they recognized the danger behind having direct religious representation in the government.

              I like how youre telling me to read the Declaration.....but, based on that it seems you have no idea what is actually in that document. I assure you it has NOTHING to do with founding anything on religion.

              So I ask in the nicest way I know how:
              What the **** are you babbling about?
              You guys get so angry. haha
              I dont see whats wrong with saying religion helped shape this country. This is what they practiced, how they lived. It was apart of them.
              So whats “Nature's God,” “Creator,” and “Divine Providence.”?
              Did that just happen to pop into TJs head?
              Why did they swear on the bible in court? "Swear to tell the whole truth, so help you God?"
              Things like that are everywhere. Its apart of history. Because it was "founded" by Protestants doesnt mean there isnt separation of Church and State.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
                Yea, it's referring to natural law....it's saying it doesn't matter who you are, we all have rights.
                So then why the need to mention god twice? Could have been covered without it. Their own personal religious beliefs had a hand in what they wrote, but more because it was part of who they are, not because they wanted religion to have any hold on the governing of the people. One of the principles they believed in was separating church and state and was a founding belief of the country. An argument could be made that their own religious beliefs led them to want to separate them, but to me that is a far cry from being "founded on Christian values". So yes, I agree with you pizzer.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JPizzack View Post
                  .it's saying it doesn't matter who you are, we all have rights.
                  who said it wasnt?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
                    You know know it.
                    Is that hairgel?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jmike View Post
                      So then why the need to mention god twice? Could have been covered without it. Their own personal religious beliefs had a hand in what they wrote, but more because it was part of who they are, not because they wanted religion to have any hold on the governing of the people. One of the principles they believed in was separating church and state and was a founding belief of the country. An argument could be made that their own religious beliefs led them to want to separate them, but to me that is a far cry from being "founded on Christian values". So yes, I agree with you pizzer.
                      If its how they lived, wouldnt it be based on their values?
                      You just help prove my point and then said but I agree with you Pizz. Are you trolling one of us?
                      Last edited by dezzzR; 07-19-2016, 05:00 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
                        If its how they lived, wouldnt it be based on their values?
                        Tim Mara was a bookie, so the Giants were created based on gambling values. Does that mean that if you don't wager on a game you aren't a real fan?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jmike View Post
                          Tim Mara was a bookie, so the Giants were created based on gambling values. Does that mean that if you don't wager on a game you aren't a real fan?
                          Horrible analogy.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
                            You guys get so angry. haha
                            I dont see whats wrong with saying religion helped shape this country. This is what they practiced, how they lived. It was apart of them.
                            So whats “Nature's God,” “Creator,” and “Divine Providence.”?
                            Did that just happen to pop into TJs head?
                            Why did they swear on the bible in court? "Swear to tell the whole truth, so help you God?"
                            Things like that are everywhere. Its apart of history. Because it was "founded" by Protestants doesnt mean there isnt separation of Church and State.
                            Your examples were done well after the fact....."under pains and penalties of perjury" is the replacement(in the U.S. anyway)
                            Same as 'Under god" was added to the pledge of allegiance by Eisenhower in the 50s.

                            My point was.....a large majority of the so called founding fathers were so against the idea, that it actually was one of the driving forces of the 1st amendment.
                            post 1776, but before the bill of rights, elected officials were required to swear their belief in god....but during the constitutional convention is where ....wait...just, here, lol:

                            The first challenge loomed with the meeting of the Constitutional Convention at Philadelphia in the spring of 1787. At that time, nearly all state constitutions required office-holders to swear to their belief in either the divine inspiration of the Old and New Testaments or the truth of Protestant Christianity, and one-third of the states still levied taxes to support Christian churches. Yet the delegates at Philadelphia wished to avoid protracted controversy over religious matters—which, in any case, most believed should be left to the states—and hoped to reach consensus on the Constitution as quickly as possible. So the Convention spent little time debating the proposed Constitution’s two brief provisions regarding religion, one (in deference to the Quakers) allowing those assuming federal posts to “affirm” rather than to swear an oath of office, the other barring religious tests for those officeholders. More surprisingly, none of the delegates objected that the proposed Constitution did not refer to God. That omission marked a departure from the founding documents of 1776: the Declaration of Independence invokes the “Creator” in setting forth the basis of human rights and the Articles of Confederation alludes to the “Great Governor of the World.”

                            http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/...o/sepchust.htm
                            Oderint Dum Metuant

                            It's too bad, I'm too good....

                            Comment


                            • Sorry....I just remember spending a ton of time on this in college lol =D
                              Oderint Dum Metuant

                              It's too bad, I'm too good....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
                                who said it wasnt?
                                lol....nobody. I was stating that "nature's god", and "creator", in the broad sense, was placed there to explain Natural Law within the DOI
                                Oderint Dum Metuant

                                It's too bad, I'm too good....

                                Comment

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