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  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
    It's the best way to hear new music. I don't like to box myself in.
    I agree with this.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jmike View Post
      Kickers are important and having a good one can make a big difference on a season. I don't expect Gould to last beyond this season and the expected return on a fourth round pick is not much for any team. After the 2nd the number of quality players found in the draft drops off significantly. If you can get a decent special teams player and mediocre back-up at a position you have done well with the pick. If you can get a guy who will be a quality kicker for 8 years, you have got a win. So saying it is wasted because he's a kicker seems to be a lack of understanding of the quality of player found after the 2nd round.
      Couldn't disagree more, you realize how many good players the Giants have drafted 4th round or beyond. Plus you are assuming he is going to be good. Imagine taking a kicker in the 4th that doesn't pan out ? Bad move.

      Comment


      • Here are all the 4th round picks from 2011 through 2013, how many players there added more value or impact to a team than a solid kicker?

        2013 4 1 98 Matt Barkley Eagles QB USC
        4 2 99 Nico Johnson Chiefs LB Alabama
        4 3 100 Akeem Spence Buccaneers DT Illinois
        4 4 101 Ace Sanders Jaguars WR South Carolina
        4 5 102 Josh Boyce Patriots WR Texas Christian
        4 6 103 Alex Okafor Cardinals DE Texas
        4 7 104 Jelani Jenkins Dolphins LB Florida
        4 8 105 Duke Williams Bills DB Nevada
        4 9 106 Dion Sims Dolphins TE Michigan State
        4 10 107 Brian Schwenke Titans C California
        4 11 108 Edmund Kugbila Panthers G Valdosta State
        4 12 109 David Bakhtiari Packers T Colorado
        4 13 110 Ryan Nassib Giants QB Syracuse
        4 14 111 Shamarko Thomas Steelers DB Syracuse
        4 15 112 Tyler Wilson Raiders QB Arkansas
        4 16 113 Barrett Jones Rams G Alabama
        4 17 114 B.W. Webb Cowboys DB William & Mary
        4 18 115 Landry Jones Steelers QB Oklahoma
        4 19 116 Earl Watford Cardinals G James Madison
        4 20 117 Khaseem Greene Bears LB Rutgers
        4 21 118 Sean Porter Bengals LB Texas A&M
        4 22 119 Phillip Thomas Redskins DB Fresno State
        4 23 120 Gerald Hodges Vikings LB Penn State
        4 24 121 Khaled Holmes Colts C USC
        4 25 122 J.C. Tretter Packers T Cornell
        4 26 123 Chris Harper Seahawks WR Kansas State
        4 27 124 Trevardo Williams Texans DE Connecticut
        4 28 125 Johnathan Franklin Packers RB UCLA
        4 29 126 William Gholston Buccaneers DE Michigan State
        4 30 127 Malliciah Goodman Falcons DE Clemson
        4 31 128 Quinton Patton 49ers WR Louisiana Tech
        4 32 129 John Simon Ravens DE Ohio State
        4 33 130 Kyle Juszczyk Ravens RB Harvard
        4 34 131 Marcus Lattimore 49ers RB South Carolina
        4 35 132 Devin Taylor Lions DE South Carolina
        4 36 133 Levine Toilolo Falcons TE Stanford
        2012 4 1 96 Chris Givens Rams WR Wake Forest
        4 2 97 Lamar Miller Dolphins RB Miami (FL)
        4 3 98 Gino Gradkowski Ravens G Delaware
        4 4 99 Ben Jones Texans C Georgia
        4 5 100 Travis Benjamin Browns WR Miami (FL)
        4 6 101 Omar Bolden Broncos DB Arizona State
        4 7 102 Kirk Cousins Redskins QB Michigan State
        4 8 103 Frank Alexander Panthers DE Oklahoma
        4 9 104 Joe Adams Panthers WR Arkansas
        4 10 105 Nigel Bradham Bills LB Florida State
        4 11 106 Robert Turbin Seahawks RB Utah State
        4 12 107 Devon Wylie Chiefs WR Fresno State
        4 13 108 Philip Blake Broncos C Baylor
        4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu Steelers DT Washington
        4 15 110 Ladarius Green Chargers TE Louisiana-Lafayette
        4 16 111 Evan Rodriguez Bears TE Temple
        4 17 112 Bobby Massie Cardinals T Mississippi
        4 18 113 Kyle Wilber Cowboys LB Wake Forest
        4 19 114 Jaye Howard Seahawks DT Florida
        4 20 115 Coty Sensabaugh Titans DB Clemson
        4 21 116 Orson Charles Bengals TE Georgia
        4 22 117 Joe Looney 49ers G Wake Forest
        4 23 118 Jarius Wright Vikings WR Arkansas
        4 24 119 Keenan Robinson Redskins LB Texas
        4 25 120 James-Michael Johnson Browns LB Nevada
        4 26 121 Keshawn Martin Texans WR Michigan State
        4 27 122 Nick Toon Saints WR Wisconsin
        4 28 123 Brandon Boykin Eagles DB Georgia
        4 29 124 Ron Brooks Bills DB Louisiana State
        4 30 125 Ronnell Lewis Lions LB Oklahoma
        4 31 126 Jared Crick Texans DT Nebraska
        4 32 127 Adrien Robinson Giants TE Cincinnati
        4 33 128 Rhett Ellison Vikings RB USC
        4 34 129 Miles Burris Raiders LB San Diego State
        4 35 130 Christian Thompson Ravens DB South Carolina State
        4 36 131 Brandon Mosley Giants T Auburn
        4 37 132 Mike Daniels Packers DT Iowa
        4 38 133 Jeron McMillian Packers DB Maine
        4 39 134 Greg Childs Vikings WR Arkansas
        4 40 135 Matt Johnson Cowboys DB Eastern Washington
        2011 4 1 98 Brandon Hogan Panthers DB West Virginia
        4 2 99 K.J. Wright Seahawks LB Mississippi State
        4 3 100 Da'Norris Searcy Bills DB North Carolina
        4 4 101 Clint Boling Bengals G Georgia
        4 5 102 Jordan Cameron Browns TE USC
        4 6 103 Sam Acho Cardinals LB Texas
        4 7 104 Luke Stocker Buccaneers TE Tennessee
        4 8 105 Roy Helu Redskins RB Nebraska
        4 9 106 Christian Ballard Vikings DT Iowa
        4 10 107 Kris Durham Seahawks WR Georgia
        4 11 108 Quinton Carter Broncos DB Oklahoma
        4 12 109 Colin McCarthy Titans LB Miami (FL)
        4 13 110 David Arking Cowboys G Missouri State
        4 14 111 Edmond Gates Dolphins WR Abilene Christian
        4 15 112 Greg Salas Rams WR Hawaii
        4 16 113 Chimdi Chekwa Raiders DB Ohio State
        4 17 114 Cecil Shorts Jaguars WR Mount Union
        4 18 115 Kendall Hunter 49ers RB Oklahoma State
        4 19 116 Casey Matthews Eagles LB Oregon
        4 20 117 James Brewer Giants T Indiana
        4 21 118 Jalil Brown Chiefs DB Colorado
        4 22 119 Delone Carter Colts RB Syracuse
        4 23 120 Alex Henery Eagles K Nebraska
        4 24 121 Chris Prosinski Jaguars DB Wyoming
        4 25 122 Chris Hairston Bills T Clemson
        4 26 123 Tandon Doss Ravens WR Indiana
        4 27 124 Owen Marecic Browns RB Stanford
        4 28 125 Taiwan Jones Raiders RB Eastern Washington
        4 29 126 Bilal Powell Jets RB Louisville
        4 30 127 Rashad Carmichael Texans DB Virginia Tech
        4 31 128 Cortez Allen Steelers DB Citadel
        4 32 129 Julius Thomas Broncos TE Portland State
        4 33 130 Jamie Harper Titans RB Clemson
        4 34 131 Davon House Packers DB New Mexico State

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dezzzR View Post
          I wish I could throw something at your head.
          You know, that isn't very nice

          Comment


          • But why the 4th when you can get him later or as undrafted rookie? It's useless, we took dodge in the 7th, how did that work out ?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jmike View Post
              You know, that isn't very nice
              Not a baseball or anything hard like that. Maybe some type of fruit like an orange or a grapefruit. check yo ***

              Comment


              • Best kicker In the league dan baily was undrafted. It's not like other positions you can find undrafted quality much easier.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jmike View Post
                  Here are all the 4th round picks from 2011 through 2013, how many players there added more value or impact to a team than a solid kicker?

                  2013 4 1 98 Matt Barkley Eagles QB USC
                  4 2 99 Nico Johnson Chiefs LB Alabama
                  4 3 100 Akeem Spence Buccaneers DT Illinois
                  4 4 101 Ace Sanders Jaguars WR South Carolina
                  4 5 102 Josh Boyce Patriots WR Texas Christian
                  4 6 103 Alex Okafor Cardinals DE Texas
                  4 7 104 Jelani Jenkins Dolphins LB Florida
                  4 8 105 Duke Williams Bills DB Nevada
                  4 9 106 Dion Sims Dolphins TE Michigan State
                  4 10 107 Brian Schwenke Titans C California
                  4 11 108 Edmund Kugbila Panthers G Valdosta State
                  4 12 109 David Bakhtiari Packers T Colorado
                  4 13 110 Ryan Nassib Giants QB Syracuse
                  4 14 111 Shamarko Thomas Steelers DB Syracuse
                  4 15 112 Tyler Wilson Raiders QB Arkansas
                  4 16 113 Barrett Jones Rams G Alabama
                  4 17 114 B.W. Webb Cowboys DB William & Mary
                  4 18 115 Landry Jones Steelers QB Oklahoma
                  4 19 116 Earl Watford Cardinals G James Madison
                  4 20 117 Khaseem Greene Bears LB Rutgers
                  4 21 118 Sean Porter Bengals LB Texas A&M
                  4 22 119 Phillip Thomas Redskins DB Fresno State
                  4 23 120 Gerald Hodges Vikings LB Penn State
                  4 24 121 Khaled Holmes Colts C USC
                  4 25 122 J.C. Tretter Packers T Cornell
                  4 26 123 Chris Harper Seahawks WR Kansas State
                  4 27 124 Trevardo Williams Texans DE Connecticut
                  4 28 125 Johnathan Franklin Packers RB UCLA
                  4 29 126 William Gholston Buccaneers DE Michigan State
                  4 30 127 Malliciah Goodman Falcons DE Clemson
                  4 31 128 Quinton Patton 49ers WR Louisiana Tech
                  4 32 129 John Simon Ravens DE Ohio State
                  4 33 130 Kyle Juszczyk Ravens RB Harvard
                  4 34 131 Marcus Lattimore 49ers RB South Carolina
                  4 35 132 Devin Taylor Lions DE South Carolina
                  4 36 133 Levine Toilolo Falcons TE Stanford
                  2012 4 1 96 Chris Givens Rams WR Wake Forest
                  4 2 97 Lamar Miller Dolphins RB Miami (FL)
                  4 3 98 Gino Gradkowski Ravens G Delaware
                  4 4 99 Ben Jones Texans C Georgia
                  4 5 100 Travis Benjamin Browns WR Miami (FL)
                  4 6 101 Omar Bolden Broncos DB Arizona State
                  4 7 102 Kirk Cousins Redskins QB Michigan State
                  4 8 103 Frank Alexander Panthers DE Oklahoma
                  4 9 104 Joe Adams Panthers WR Arkansas
                  4 10 105 Nigel Bradham Bills LB Florida State
                  4 11 106 Robert Turbin Seahawks RB Utah State
                  4 12 107 Devon Wylie Chiefs WR Fresno State
                  4 13 108 Philip Blake Broncos C Baylor
                  4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu Steelers DT Washington
                  4 15 110 Ladarius Green Chargers TE Louisiana-Lafayette
                  4 16 111 Evan Rodriguez Bears TE Temple
                  4 17 112 Bobby Massie Cardinals T Mississippi
                  4 18 113 Kyle Wilber Cowboys LB Wake Forest
                  4 19 114 Jaye Howard Seahawks DT Florida
                  4 20 115 Coty Sensabaugh Titans DB Clemson
                  4 21 116 Orson Charles Bengals TE Georgia
                  4 22 117 Joe Looney 49ers G Wake Forest
                  4 23 118 Jarius Wright Vikings WR Arkansas
                  4 24 119 Keenan Robinson Redskins LB Texas
                  4 25 120 James-Michael Johnson Browns LB Nevada
                  4 26 121 Keshawn Martin Texans WR Michigan State
                  4 27 122 Nick Toon Saints WR Wisconsin
                  4 28 123 Brandon Boykin Eagles DB Georgia
                  4 29 124 Ron Brooks Bills DB Louisiana State
                  4 30 125 Ronnell Lewis Lions LB Oklahoma
                  4 31 126 Jared Crick Texans DT Nebraska
                  4 32 127 Adrien Robinson Giants TE Cincinnati
                  4 33 128 Rhett Ellison Vikings RB USC
                  4 34 129 Miles Burris Raiders LB San Diego State
                  4 35 130 Christian Thompson Ravens DB South Carolina State
                  4 36 131 Brandon Mosley Giants T Auburn
                  4 37 132 Mike Daniels Packers DT Iowa
                  4 38 133 Jeron McMillian Packers DB Maine
                  4 39 134 Greg Childs Vikings WR Arkansas
                  4 40 135 Matt Johnson Cowboys DB Eastern Washington
                  2011 4 1 98 Brandon Hogan Panthers DB West Virginia
                  4 2 99 K.J. Wright Seahawks LB Mississippi State
                  4 3 100 Da'Norris Searcy Bills DB North Carolina
                  4 4 101 Clint Boling Bengals G Georgia
                  4 5 102 Jordan Cameron Browns TE USC
                  4 6 103 Sam Acho Cardinals LB Texas
                  4 7 104 Luke Stocker Buccaneers TE Tennessee
                  4 8 105 Roy Helu Redskins RB Nebraska
                  4 9 106 Christian Ballard Vikings DT Iowa
                  4 10 107 Kris Durham Seahawks WR Georgia
                  4 11 108 Quinton Carter Broncos DB Oklahoma
                  4 12 109 Colin McCarthy Titans LB Miami (FL)
                  4 13 110 David Arking Cowboys G Missouri State
                  4 14 111 Edmond Gates Dolphins WR Abilene Christian
                  4 15 112 Greg Salas Rams WR Hawaii
                  4 16 113 Chimdi Chekwa Raiders DB Ohio State
                  4 17 114 Cecil Shorts Jaguars WR Mount Union
                  4 18 115 Kendall Hunter 49ers RB Oklahoma State
                  4 19 116 Casey Matthews Eagles LB Oregon
                  4 20 117 James Brewer Giants T Indiana
                  4 21 118 Jalil Brown Chiefs DB Colorado
                  4 22 119 Delone Carter Colts RB Syracuse
                  4 23 120 Alex Henery Eagles K Nebraska
                  4 24 121 Chris Prosinski Jaguars DB Wyoming
                  4 25 122 Chris Hairston Bills T Clemson
                  4 26 123 Tandon Doss Ravens WR Indiana
                  4 27 124 Owen Marecic Browns RB Stanford
                  4 28 125 Taiwan Jones Raiders RB Eastern Washington
                  4 29 126 Bilal Powell Jets RB Louisville
                  4 30 127 Rashad Carmichael Texans DB Virginia Tech
                  4 31 128 Cortez Allen Steelers DB Citadel
                  4 32 129 Julius Thomas Broncos TE Portland State
                  4 33 130 Jamie Harper Titans RB Clemson
                  4 34 131 Davon House Packers DB New Mexico State
                  That isn't the right question.
                  The correct question is how many of these players have had a better impact than the alternative of getting a kicker via free agency.

                  So many times when a kicker id drafted in anything other than a very late round they fail.
                  Mike Nugent (who was just cut) was drafted in the 2nd round I believe and he has been nothing more than just a guy. The Bucs drafted a kid this year who has been dreadful.
                  Better to get a kicker in free agency. Robbie Gould is a good kicker and we didn't have to burn a draft pick for him.
                  Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ztown View Post
                    But why the 4th when you can get him later or as undrafted rookie? It's useless, we took dodge in the 7th, how did that work out ?
                    Because the forth is likely the round he would be selected in. Dodge was drafted and the plan was to completely change his mechanics and style of punting, this was an incredibly stupid plan. And he wasn't even the top guy at punter in the draft. I was optimistic, but in hindsight that pick was doomed from the start. I'm not saying he will definitely be a good kicker, but to eliminate him from a round that doesn't historically provide solid NFL players simply because he is a kicker seems more than a bit foolish to me. 9 times since 2000 a kicker has been selected in round 4 or higher, so it seems NFL execs disagree with you.

                    Comment


                    • But to answer the question. No. it would be worse than when they were taking back up quarterbacks in the 4th and 5th rounds.

                      Comment


                      • Adam vinateri was undrafted too. You are down playing the quality that can be found after the draft. When the better kickers are undrafted usually you want to waste a 4th on one.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                          That isn't the right question.
                          The correct question is how many of these players have had a better impact than the alternative of getting a kicker via free agency.

                          So many times when a kicker id drafted in anything other than a very late round they fail.
                          Mike Nugent (who was just cut) was drafted in the 2nd round I believe and he has been nothing more than just a guy. The Bucs drafted a kid this year who has been dreadful.
                          Better to get a kicker in free agency. Robbie Gould is a good kicker and we didn't have to burn a draft pick for him.
                          Which was my original question really. I was wondering what people thought of spending a mid pick on a kicker that may be here for a while and solidify the position over the rent a kicker game the team has been playing since before I was born.

                          Still sad to see Stover and Peterson have such successful careers elsewhere after being NYG draft picks. Though the rent a vet thing works because there is little mystery in what you are getting and the cost is not very high.

                          For me I think the rent a vet is a better strategy overall, but I was curious of other's thoughts.

                          Comment


                          • See then I read it wrong, if you could get a dan baily type I would grab him but too risky not knowing

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ztown View Post
                              Adam vinateri was undrafted too. You are down playing the quality that can be found after the draft. When the better kickers are undrafted usually you want to waste a 4th on one.
                              And Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Tony Romo was a UDFA, why waste a high pick on a QB?

                              Eliminating a player from a round as low as the fourth because of his position is dumb.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ztown View Post
                                See then I read it wrong, if you could get a dan baily type I would grab him but too risky not knowing
                                It seems I have been very unclear in my questions recently.

                                Comment

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