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  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
    Eli sucked in 2010 and I said so. He was much improved in 2011.

    It was Eli who had the awakening. Probably inspired by Moorehead.
    Eli's been great for a while (including 2010) he's developed a connections with his receivers that's the real difference...in 2010 his receivers ran go's when they were supposed to run curls and slants when they were supposed to run out patterns...it made Eli look like he was throwing it right to defenders a lot of the time but most of it was out of his control, now the receiving corps is doing the right thing most of the time...it makes him look better...but really he's been this good for a while...probably since 2008.
    Last edited by DavenIII; 10-09-2012, 03:01 PM.

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    • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
      Eli's been great for a while (including 2010) he's developed a connections with his receivers that's the real difference...in 2010 his receivers ran go's when they were supposed to run curls and slants when they were supposed to run out patterns...it made Eli look like he was throwing it right to defenders a lot of the time but most of it was out of his control, now the receiving corps is doing the right thing most of the time...it makes him look better...but really he's been this good for a while...probably since 2008.
      Not even close.
      But believe what you want.
      Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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      • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
        Not even close.
        But believe what you want.
        he's not more accurate now then in 2008, at least not by any noticeable or substantial amount...that much is for certain, so this massive "improvement" in his ability/game whatever you want to call it, where did it come from....if not from the receivers running the right routes.

        the only other answer is he's calling better audibles at the line of scrimmage, I guess that "could" be true, but I think he was calling the right ones already, I think it was the receiving corps that didn't know what they were doing, I think that because they were new at the time and he had been here for 4 years already.

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        • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
          he's not more accurate now then in 2008, at least not by any noticeable or substantial amount...that much is for certain, so this massive "improvement" in his ability/game whatever you want to call it, where did it come from....if not from the receivers running the right routes.

          the only other answer is he's calling better audibles at the line of scrimmage, I guess that "could" be true, but I think he was calling the right ones already, I think it was the receiving corps that didn't know what they were doing, I think that because they were new at the time and he had been here for 4 years already.
          He's better, more elusive and calmer in the pocket. His decision making is far better as a result.
          He simply has far better command in the pocket. If you don't see it that's fine. you're half an Eli Cultist anyway. But its clear to objective fans.
          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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          • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
            He's better, more elusive and calmer in the pocket. His decision making is far better as a result.
            He simply has far better command in the pocket. If you don't see it that's fine. you're half an Eli Cultist anyway. But its clear to objective fans.
            Was he not "elusive" in the 2007 Superbowl run? I think he was and was before that as well...I think you see it more often now because our O-Line is worse.
            Is he calmer? I don't know, one thing he was always good at since 04" was standing in the pocket till the last second, another thing he was good at was getting rid of the ball when there was no play...he was good at it from the beginning and has remained good at it his whole career.

            you keep going back to 2010 and the Int's....seriously though, watch those games again if you can, 8-10 of those Ints are tipped by our own receivers...another 8-10 of those ints are CLEAR miscommunications between him and a receiver....those Ints did not happen because he was "skittish" like you (and Reese) claim...he was never skittish...that is not a value/quality that exists in him or his family for that matter.

            I'd venture to say that what you are saying is only clear to uniformed fans (which you obviously are not which is why it confuses me)

            the fans who think what you are saying is true are the same fans who simple did not understand that Gilbrides offense is an option route offense and when it looked like Eli was throwing it directly to defenders he was actually throwing to where his receiver should have been, you already know that, so you know that it wasn't his accuracy that improved.

            I don't want to Izbo you here Morehead but the statistics also back my theory over yours minus 2010 (which I've already explained...tips/miscommunications with young receivers) he's been pretty consistent with his completion %, TD/Int ratio, his yardage has been 4k+ since the 2009 season, even his QB Rate has been pretty consistent since 08.

            he's been this good for 4 years at least...his receiving corps has just come into it's own recently.
            Last edited by DavenIII; 10-09-2012, 03:45 PM.

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            • I can't believe two people just used the term "elusive" with Eli lol.....

              I wouldnt say elusive, just maybe more 'aware' in general, which allows him to know when to move a little better.

              I side with Daven on this....he isn't better....he just LOOKS better with what he has at his disposal
              Oderint Dum Metuant

              It's too bad, I'm too good....

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              • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                Was he not "elusive" in the 2007 Superbowl run? I think he was and was before that as well...I think you see it more often now because our O-Line is worse.
                Is he calmer? I don't know, one thing he was always good at since 04" was standing in the pocket till the last second, another thing he was good at was getting rid of the ball when there was no play...he was good at it from the beginning and has remained good at it his whole career.

                you keep going back to 2010 and the Int's....seriously though, watch those games again if you can, 8-10 of those Ints are tipped by our own receivers...another 8-10 of those ints are CLEAR miscommunications between him and a receiver....those Ints did not happen because he was "skittish" like you (and Reese) claim...he was never skittish...that is not a value/quality that exists in him or his family for that matter.

                I'd venture to say that what you are saying is only clear to uniformed fans (which you obviously are not which is why it confuses me)

                the fans who think what you are saying is true are the same fans who simple did not understand that Gilbrides offense is an option route offense and when it looked like Eli was throwing it directly to defenders he was actually throwing to where his receiver should have been, you already know that, so you know that it wasn't his accuracy that improved.
                He sucked in 2010. Thats simple. Not just the Int's, but his general play.
                You don't have to take my word for it, listen to Tom Coughlin who said in February of 2011, that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. Which is exactly what he did in 2011. I also noticed for the first time in the Rams game that he started to dump the ball off better underneath.

                And no....except for the bazaar helmet play, Eli was NOT elusive. Remember the "America's game" show on NFLN where Sean O'Hara said that Eli trips over his own feet and that the rest of the team was shocked that he avoided that sack in SB 42.

                It simply is what it is. Last year he had a poorer O line and no running game and had great productivity. He has continued that this season. Yes the "Old Eli" does show his ugly face on a play here or there, but essentially he is a far more complete player than he was.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  "Old Eli" does show his ugly face.
                  oh, now we're name calling?!?!?!?! =P
                  Oderint Dum Metuant

                  It's too bad, I'm too good....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                    He sucked in 2010. Thats simple. Not just the Int's, but his general play.
                    yea, you are just wrong here, Eli was a very good/bordering on great QB throughout the entire 2010 season almost all of the interceptions that happened that year can easily be attributed to either receivers running the wrong routes or the ball bouncing off their chests/facemasks, I don't say that because I'm an "eli cultist" I say that because you can SEE that by watching the games....go through and count how many passes hit our receivers before being intercepted and also count how many interceptions were thrown to an area on the field where none of our receivers were even remotely close to....those ones...yeah I'm not blaming them on Eli and those ones equate to 16-20 of the ints, if everything was exactly the same now but in 2010 he went 31TD's and 7 Int's you wouldn't be saying any of the things you are saying about his improvement.....but because his receivers made mistake in 2010 you see some sort of "phantom" improvement even though he's been playing as good as he played in 2011 and this year the last 4 or 5 years.

                    if you ask him or his coaches or the players they are all going to say the stock answer (yes he's improved) because they are supposed to improve every year...and he does...but there is no drastic difference between the 2011 Eli Manning and the 2010 Eli Manning, the drastic changed lies mostly in the receiving corps becoming suitable.

                    I find it humorous that you call me an "Eli Cultist" when really what I'm doing is taking credit AWAY from Eli and giving it to Nicks/Cruz and the receiving corps.
                    Last edited by DavenIII; 10-09-2012, 04:07 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by MattMeyerBud View Post
                      i had to buy ice - in the words of you - blow me
                      I was at the wrong Wendys on 17 talking to a bunch of people who didnt look familiar and I just thought they read THEE Thread and joined in on the party until I called Lando and talked to you and found out I was at the wrong Wendys, LOL
                      Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                      • Originally posted by Kase-1 View Post
                        I was at the wrong Wendys on 17 talking to a bunch of people who didnt look familiar and I just thought they read THEE Thread and joined in on the party until I called Lando and talked to you and found out I was at the wrong Wendys, LOL
                        me and Pez both did that the first year, no worries.

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                        • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                          yea, you are just wrong here, Eli was a very good/bordering on great QB throughout the entire 2010 season almost all of the interceptions that happened that year can easily be attributed to either receivers running the wrong routes or the ball bouncing off their chests/facemasks, I don't say that because I'm an "eli cultist" I say that because you can SEE that by watching the games....go through and count how many passes hit our receivers before being intercepted and also count how many interceptions were thrown to an area on the field where none of our receivers were even remotely close to....those ones...yeah I'm not blaming them on Eli and those ones equate to 16-20 of the ints, if everything was exactly the same now but in 2010 he went 31TD's and 7 Int's you wouldn't be saying any of the things you are saying about his improvement.....but because his receivers made mistake in 2010 you see some sort of "phantom" improvement even though he's been playing as good as he played in 2011 and this year the last 4 or 5 years.

                          if you ask him or his coaches or the players they are all going to say the stock answer (yes he's improved) because they are supposed to improve every year...and he does...but there is no drastic difference between the 2011 Eli Manning and the 2010 Eli Manning, the drastic changed lies mostly in the receiving corps becoming suitable.
                          Most int's "can" be attributed to something else. Thats just NFL football. The point is that Eli was careless with the ball in 2010 AND showed a tendancy to get hyped up early in games. He had many throws in the first quarter that were high, especially short throws, which have a tendancy to be tipped in the air.
                          If there is any one factor that has changed with Eli its his general "calmness", which explains his avoiding those early, bad picks that he had in 2010. It also causes better pocket awareness where there used to be more panic amid a pass rush. Those dumb chucks into coverage in the face of a pass rush are far more rare with Eli. Which is EXACTLY what TC publicly complained about in his statement in Indianapolis in Feb. 2011.
                          You can chalk it up to more experience, more confidence, the fear of God with such a terrible 2010...or whatever. But its clear in his game.
                          The kid is just playing better and thats all there is to it. Lie to yourself if you must, but it doesn't change the truth.
                          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                          • On the whole Eli thing, he's def stepped his game up as a QB. He seems to be way calmer in the pocket and a much more aware each season, its not just this year. Eli has been getting better each year since he got in the league, its just that in these past few he's taken the jump from Average to Good to GREAT QB
                            Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                            • Occam's razor favors me here I think Morehead.

                              What's the simpler solution?

                              Young inexperienced receivers improving after getting some experience?

                              or a 4 year veteran QB suddenly making massive improvements to his game?

                              I think we both know...logically, my theory makes more sense Morehead, plus statistics back my theory up as well, also it's plain to see if you've remained objective over the years (as I have unlike some Phil Simms fan boy :P)

                              I know, you know I'm right, but if you want to continue to "daven" me go ahead I'll play my own game, you have been getting good at it recently.

                              (let me pull a MMB)

                              1 Daven - 0 Morehead.
                              Last edited by DavenIII; 10-09-2012, 05:01 PM.

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                              • Fan boy is the perfect description of MH's passionate feelings about Simms. lol
                                Oderint Dum Metuant

                                It's too bad, I'm too good....

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