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  • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
    I believe he took more sacks and that is an improvement (but it goes against Moreheads "elusiveness" comment) and perhaps he did throw a few more balls away...(i'd like to see the stat though) but I believe the maintained comp pct just comes from less dropped passes and more correctly run routes by his receives.I'm not saying Eli manning doesn't get better every year....mostly what I'm saying is that the "dramatic" improvement from 2010 to 2011 wasn't his...he made his own little adjustments and tweaks...but he was "already" very good in 2010, the "dramatic" improvement came from new receivers coming into their own and actually doing the right things and executing correctly...little tweaks don't make dramatic changes, learning a playbook, getting used to the "speed of the game" the type of improvements 1st year to 2nd year players make...that's whats responsible for dramatic improvement.
    He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.

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    • Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
      that doesn't really mean much
      It does to MH.

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      • Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
        He threw the ball much better when he wasn't taking a sack or throwing it away. All but on of those tipped ints in 2010 was a bad throw. the more often you throw it poorly, the greater chance you have for bad things to happen to you and that's exactly what happened.
        No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

        But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

        That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.
        Last edited by DavenIII; 10-10-2012, 10:43 AM.

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        • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
          No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his "accuracy" increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, Maybe he was more mobile....maybe.But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase, he was still throwing exactly the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.
          there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage

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          • Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
            there were a total of what, 2?ints that were communication errors on 2010? one of which was the gb game where nicks broke towards empty field and eli threw it to triple coverage
            No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.
            Last edited by DavenIII; 10-10-2012, 11:12 AM.

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            • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
              No, this is where we disagree, I honestly don't think his accuracy increased any noticeable amount, "maybe" he was making better decisions, "maybe" he was more mobile....maybe.

              But his accuracy, no, that didn't increase substantially, he was still throwing the same amount of ducks and still throwing the same tight passes as 2010 in 2011...the only difference was when his receiver was supposed to run an out...they ran an out in 2011 in 2010 the ran an in and the ball was intercepted.

              That and they didn't decide to play volleyball instead of football with his passes.
              Personally, I don't think Eli's accuracy improved that much at all. To me the knocks on Eli's accuracy early on were way overblown. I think his accuracy has been consistently good for several years. (with the exception of his tendency to get hyped up early in game in 2010 and make a few high throws)

              His pocket presence and especially his calmness in the pocket is what got dramatically better in 2011. That seems to have continued this season as well.

              You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.
              Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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              • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.
                Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
                The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                  Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham were the leading WR duo in the NFL in 2010 with 20 TD's. How much did you want them to "shape up"? How many friggin Yac's did they have in 2010? They were great. Eli throws a 5 yard out at Dallas and Manningham makes a great run down the sidelines for a TD. That stuff happened all the time in 2010.
                  The great play of his WR's that year padded Eli's stats.
                  They were good when they caught the ball no doubt, they got open no doubt...but they didn't know the audibles, they couldn't read the defense the way Eli could...so when Eli saw Blitz and they were supposed to also see blitz and change their routes accordingly .... they did not do it Morehead...now they do it, they recognize defenses last year and this year...before that they didn't so many many many times they ran the wrong routes causing Eli to throw where they were supposed to be...but they were not there....creating in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Eli's int's in 2010...not him throwing into triple coverage...not him making mistakes...it was the receivers making mistakes.

                  your entire "eli improvement" argument hinges on him throwing too many Int's in 2010...but I'm sorry, those int's are not on him...some are yes...but the majority of his int's in 2010 were not his fault....and they weren't "not his fault" like so many other QB's in the NFL....no he was dealing with rookies who simply did not know what they were doing yet...they had physical ability but they were not their yet...they got there in 2011 and are here now...that's why Eli is doing better..not because of tweaks he made to his game...but because his receivers have blossomed.

                  I've always thought Eli was great you know that...I'd love to attribute his recent statistical success to improvements he made but it just doesn't make any sense to....and frankly, it's common sense that it's not him but his receivers that are the major factor.
                  Last edited by DavenIII; 10-10-2012, 11:53 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                    No, more like 6 from miscommunications, and that's only the blatantly obvious ones, there were only like 6-8 Ints the whole year that were questionable passes...that's why I keep saying he was good in 2010...it's just that his receivers shaped up in 2011.
                    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

                    speaking of seeing what you want to see, please try and count 6

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                    • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                      You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.
                      you should have seen that as well in 2010...because it was there then, the problem in 2010 is that his troops didn't know their shields from their swords, they made due with their physical attributes and STILL did well, but in 2011 and now they've been through training, and now have both their physical attributes PLUS their knowledge of the game.

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                      • Originally posted by Imgrate View Post
                        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

                        speaking of seeing what you want to see, please try and count 6
                        If that video worked I'm sure I could count 10, but I could point out 6 that even you wouldn't be able to dispute.

                        Edit: ok I found it on youtube myself using the description I will look through it and note each int for you ok? I'll come back later with a report.

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                        • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                          They were good when they caught the ball no doubt, they got open no doubt...but they didn't know the audibles, they couldn't read the defense the way Eli could...so when Eli saw Blitz and they were supposed to also see blitz and change their routes accordingly .... they did not do it Morehead...now they do it, the recognize defenses last year and this year...before that they didn't so many many many times they ran the wrong routes causing Eli to throw where they were supposed to be...but they were not there....creating in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Eli's int's in 2010...not him throwing into triple coverage...not him making mistakes...it was the receivers making mistakes.

                          .

                          your entire "eli improvement" argument hinges on him throwing too many Int's in 2010...but I'm sorry, those int's are not on him...some are yes...but the majority of his int's in 2010 were not his fault....and they weren't "not his fault" like so many other QB's in the NFL....no he was dealing with rookies who simply did not know what they were doing yet...they had physical ability but they were not their yet...they got there in 2011 and are here now...that's why Eli is doing better..not because of tweaks he made to his game...but because his receivers have blossomed.

                          I've always thought Eli was great you know that...I'd love to attribute his recent statistical success to improvements he made but it just doesn't make any sense to....and frankly, it's common sense that it's not him but his receivers that are the major factor.
                          I'm sorry Daven but thats pure nonsense. This notion that our WR's were making the wrong moves all year and Eli was always right is a crock.
                          Two perfect examples:
                          In SF, Manningham broke into the open and Eli threw it where MM would have had to turn into coverage. the ball was picked.
                          In GB, Nicks did the same thing, he broke downfield away from coverage and Eli threw it into a group of three defenders. Both were rushed throws where Eli made the completely wrong read. These were examples of Eli's tendency to make paniced throws in 2010. The WR's made the right plays, and both those plays should have been successful.
                          Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                          • Originally posted by DavenIII View Post
                            you should have seen that as well in 2010...because it was there then, the problem in 2010 is that his troops didn't know their shields from their swords, they made due with their physical attributes and STILL did well, but in 2011 and now they've been through training, and now have both their physical attributes PLUS their knowledge of the game.
                            Ineresting. Since in 2011 they had no mini camps or training camps for the WR's to "learn how to play football"
                            No sir....This was a determined effort by Eli to improve his play. I'm giving him credit for doing it. You are obviously an Eli hater who thinks he can't get better.
                            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                            • Eli's desire to become a better football player and be the best he can be is a well known fact....Now he certainly didn't take a break from that between 2010 and 2011....The reasonable thinking here is that he is continually trying to improve his game ....Saying that there was no change in his game between 10 and 11 is like saying he was the best he could ever be in 2010.....I don't by that for an instant.....And the same goes for the wr's those that work hard will improve their game.... at least on the mental side of it.....smart hard working players become the cream of the crop if not the great players of the league.....jmho......So I look at it like this Eli along with the wr's improved their game in 2011.....

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                              • Originally posted by Morehead State View Post
                                Personally, I don't think Eli's accuracy improved that much at all. To me the knocks on Eli's accuracy early on were way overblown. I think his accuracy has been consistently good for several years. (with the exception of his tendency to get hyped up early in game in 2010 and make a few high throws)

                                His pocket presence and especially his calmness in the pocket is what got dramatically better in 2011. That seems to have continued this season as well.

                                You said that "I see what I want to see" with Eli. What I wanted to see from Eli was a calm, confident field general last year and thats exactly what I got.
                                thats a complete 180 of what u use to knock him for
                                https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheeBloodSport/

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