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  • #16
    Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post


    The issue staring us all in the face is that this offense got much worse when Tom Coughlin was let go, and McAdoo took over.

    This is what I think some dont see. McAdoo was NOT running "his" offense while TC was still HC. It had elements of it and a lot more quick passing, but it also had input from what TC wanted to see. Just like this is not Mike Sullivan's offense.

    The fact is exactly what you stated - that since TC has left, this went from a top 10 offense to a bottom of the league disaster. And virtually nothing has changed since last year.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kase-1 View Post

      Why trade JPP??
      Why not? In order to get, the giants are going to have to give. A player of JPP's caliber could get us up to a 3rd round draft pick and would take his salary off the books. This team needs to be rebuilt big time. Trading away some of the good veterans are part of the process. I'm not going to start knocking his play to justify my opinion. I like JPP a lot. I just like the giants more than him. Houston, who lost both Watt and Mercilous, would be a perfect landing spot considering how their defense has nosedived since.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

        It's funny how much optimism there was surrounding this team heading into the season ad most people thought we would contend this year.

        The issue staring us all in the face is that this offense got much worse when Tom Coughlin was let go, and McAdoo took over.

        GM's have nothing to do with the actual coaching of the football team, and the Giants don't have a history of firing their GM's.


        I'm optimistic for the sake of being optimistic about the season. Honestly though this does not surprise me. My issue with Reese if very simple, the game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. He has shown that this area is not a priority for him in either the draft or FA unless the situation is desparate. IMO, this is not how to build a consistently competitive team. He might get us the weapons to make a run here and there and McAdoo might be the bigger problem right now, but that does not absolve Reese of blame in constructing an inferior roster. It was Reese's call to come into the season with the same projected starters on the OL in the hopes they would improve from the experience.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DandyDon View Post

          This is what I think some dont see. McAdoo was NOT running "his" offense while TC was still HC. It had elements of it and a lot more quick passing, but it also had input from what TC wanted to see. Just like this is not Mike Sullivan's offense.

          The fact is exactly what you stated - that since TC has left, this went from a top 10 offense to a bottom of the league disaster. And virtually nothing has changed since last year.
          Exactly.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SG88 View Post

            Why not? In order to get, the giants are going to have to give. A player of JPP's caliber could get us up to a 3rd round draft pick and would take his salary off the books. This team needs to be rebuilt big time. Trading away some of the good veterans are part of the process. I'm not going to start knocking his play to justify my opinion. I like JPP a lot. I just like the giants more than him. Houston, who lost both Watt and Mercilous, would be a perfect landing spot considering how their defense has nosedived since.
            But if we trade JPP then we have another position of need. At this point we are goood at DE with JPP, Vernon, Wynn (who we def should resign), Okwara and Moss. We have so many positions of need going into next season like #3 WR, OG, LT, C, DT, LB, and Slot CB. No need to add another position to that list

            I love the team more than any of the players, but i dont want us trading away our best and 1 of the best DE's in the league for an unproven
            Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jmike View Post

              I'm optimistic for the sake of being optimistic about the season. Honestly though this does not surprise me. My issue with Reese if very simple, the game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. He has shown that this area is not a priority for him in either the draft or FA unless the situation is desparate. IMO, this is not how to build a consistently competitive team. He might get us the weapons to make a run here and there and McAdoo might be the bigger problem right now, but that does not absolve Reese of blame in constructing an inferior roster. It was Reese's call to come into the season with the same projected starters on the OL in the hopes they would improve from the experience.
              How do you consider drafting 2 linemen with your 1st pick and another with your 2nd not being a priority?

              And I don't believe for one second that Reese made the call to go with Flowers and Hart without consulting with the head coach, the oline coach and Mara.

              The Giants made a collective decision on the path they took this past off-season.

              And BTW, did the Giants Oline play better when Fluker went to RG and Pugh to RT? The head coach sets the line up, not the GM.

              Point_Counterpoint_L_Dan_Aykroyd_Jane_Curtin.jpg

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                How do you consider drafting 2 linemen with your 1st pick and another with your 2nd not being a priority?

                And I don't believe for one second that Reese made the call to go with Flowers and Hart without consulting with the head coach, the oline coach and Mara.

                The Giants made a collective decision on the path they took this past off-season.

                And BTW, did the Giants Oline play better when Fluker went to RG and Pugh to RT? The head coach sets the line up, not the GM.

                Point_Counterpoint_L_Dan_Aykroyd_Jane_Curtin.jpg

                I am not absolving MacAdoo of the lion's share of the responsibility here, but many problems started before he became head coach and are a direct result of Reese's poor decisions. Ultimately though, and I have said many times on here, the person most responsible for this mess is John Mara. I call those picks too little too late btw.

                IMO the order of responsibility for this season's mess is Mara, MacAdoo and Reese. Though I also think Reese was more responsible for the previous mess than Coughlin and a strong supporter of the notion of clearing both out and not extending Eli back when Eli signed his extention. And you know how much of a fan of Eli I am. They had an opportunity to start the healing and allowing a new GM and new HC to decide if they wanted to hitch their wagon to Eli moving forward or allowing him to leave via FA.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jmike View Post


                  I am not absolving MacAdoo of the lion's share of the responsibility here, but many problems started before he became head coach and are a direct result of Reese's poor decisions. Ultimately though, and I have said many times on here, the person most responsible for this mess is John Mara. I call those picks too little too late btw.

                  IMO the order of responsibility for this season's mess is Mara, MacAdoo and Reese. Though I also think Reese was more responsible for the previous mess than Coughlin and a strong supporter of the notion of clearing both out and not extending Eli back when Eli signed his extention. And you know how much of a fan of Eli I am. They had an opportunity to start the healing and allowing a new GM and new HC to decide if they wanted to hitch their wagon to Eli moving forward or allowing him to leave via FA.
                  I get the feeling that Reese is the least influential GM the Giants have had.

                  I don't think for one second he took over and began challenging Tom Coughlin philosophies. Instead I believe he adopted the insights from Tom as part of his own strategy.

                  So what happened to our offensive line from 2007? They got old.

                  And why did Tom Coughlin get fired from Jacksonville? He allowed his team to get old.

                  A GM's job is to fill the team with the type of players the head coach wants.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post



                    A GM's job is to fill the team with the type of players the head coach wants.
                    So you are saying that Reese drafted crappy players because TC wanted crappy players and they got a new head coach who also wants crappy players? I have trouble believing that.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jmike View Post

                      So you are saying that Reese drafted crappy players because TC wanted crappy players and they got a new head coach who also wants crappy players? I have trouble believing that.
                      Every player drafted with McAdoo as our head coach is still on this team, so again I disagree with your assessment.

                      Obviously Reese has the final say in personnel decisions over the head coach, but what I told you is exactly what Reese has said.

                      I believe this topic was the subject of discussion at the last Town Hall. If anyone else was there and can confirm, maybe they will.

                      Do you actually believe that the coaching staff isn't involved in personnel decisions, or at least which positions on the team are a priority?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Roosevelt View Post

                        Every player drafted with McAdoo as our head coach is still on this team, so again I disagree with your assessment.

                        Obviously Reese has the final say in personnel decisions over the head coach, but what I told you is exactly what Reese has said.

                        I believe this topic was the subject of discussion at the last Town Hall. If anyone else was there and can confirm, maybe they will.

                        Do you actually believe that the coaching staff isn't involved in personnel decisions, or at least which positions on the team are a priority?
                        No, I believe the coaching staff has input and should be communicating with the scouts on what types of skills the team needs at those positions. Couglin had a lot of input and so does MacAdoo. They also make the final decision on the roster and who plays where. They also are resonsible for coaching and teaching the young players that have areas that need improvement. They could be the reason for the failure of some of these draft picks. However, Reese is ultimately resonsible and Mara even moreso. Mara isn't getting fired, though he should be, but Reese could be and IMO should be as well as MacAdoo. Reese should have been gone with Coughlin IMO.

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                        • #27
                          our d line is a monster. tomlinson is only going to get better. the problem is we have a bunch of 3rd graders playing linebacker.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LTMVP View Post
                            our d line is a monster. tomlinson is only going to get better. the problem is we have a bunch of 3rd graders playing linebacker.
                            Kennard at the rush, Goodson mike, robinson coverage isnt to bad. They would need to pick up round 1-3 LBs to really get an upgrade

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