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NY Knicks 2011-12

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  • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

    its hard to discuss sports with pessimistic, negative nancy fans. there's a lot of giants fans like that too, complaining all year, fire this coach fire that coach, get rid of eli... we win a superbowl and it's back to *****ing about not resigning certain players or doing this or not doing that. just sit back and enjoy cheering for your team.

    melo is one of the best players in the league, the knicks would be worse off if they kept all those scrubs like felton, gallo, chandler, mozgov etc. lin would have never emerged, dantoni would still be coach, and the knicks would be far worse off so let's just enjoy the fact we have a good team.

    it's sad seeing so called fans hating on a player who has done nothing wrong and is struggling, you should be supporting the knicks players and hoping they get better and help the team improve as a whole. instead of praying on their downfall "o melo finally had a good game, whoopdy doo" you're such a hater. "one of the worst finishers around the rim" do you not realize how idiotic you sound? melo? possibly the best scorer in the league behind durant and kobe, is the worst finisher around the rim? do you think before you type?

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    • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

      [quote user="EliTE"]its hard to discuss sports with pessimistic, negative nancy fans. there's a lot of giants fans like that too, complaining all year, fire this coach fire that coach, get rid of eli... we win a superbowl and it's back to *****ing about not resigning certain players or doing this or not doing that. just sit back and enjoy cheering for your team.

      melo is one of the best players in the league, the knicks would be worse off if they kept all those scrubs like felton, gallo, chandler, mozgov etc. lin would have never emerged, dantoni would still be coach, and the knicks would be far worse off so let's just enjoy the fact we have a good team.

      it's sad seeing so called fans hating on a player who has done nothing wrong and is struggling, you should be supporting the knicks players and hoping they get better and help the team improve as a whole. instead of praying on their downfall "o melo finally had a good game, whoopdy doo" you're such a hater. "one of the worst finishers around the rim" do you not realize how idiotic you sound? melo? possibly the best scorer in the league behind durant and kobe, is the worst finisher around the rim? do you think before you type?[/quote]Sportzfan is actually correct on this.This season Melo has not gone to the basket with authority. Now it may be because of injury. He has a bad groin and wrist so it may be playing a role. Its affecting his shooting % which is the worst of his career by a large margin. The unfortunate thing about this season is it looked to me that both Amare and Melo werent ready to go and the start of the season. Amare especially looked out of shape. I think he got caught up in being a NY celebrity and fashion mogul more then a Basketball player. He was just starting to turn the corner when his back gave out.

      I understand Sportzfans frustration. I look at this Knick roster and think there is no reason they shouldnt be able to compete with the best teams in the NBA. Outside of the Heat ,Bulls and the Celtics "They own the Knicks" There isnt a team in the East I think that could beat the Knicks in a 7 game series. So if the Knicks have the 3rd best roster in the East why are they at risk of missing the playoffs. Was it Dantoni, All the roster tinkering,lack of roster continuity with no training camp,compressed schedule,Injuries, all valid reasons why the Knicks havent met expectations. There is another 1 as well and its the one that has angered me and Sportzfan and thats lack of passion. That ties in with the play around the rim. A lot of times this year they havent gone at the basket with authority. Much more intent on laying it up softly. To many times Ive seen Knick players play soft. When multi millionaires play soft like that to me and others it is very frustrating

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      • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

        what roster? the knicks started with tony douglas, bibby and as their starting PGs, and fields, walker and shumpert as their SGs. it was amazing they won any games with that backcourt.

        amare rehabbed his back in the offseason and put on muscle expecting to be playing center. he didn't have his legs under him which is no fault to him because like i said he was rehabbing.

        melo came into camp in excellent shape, when he got injured and couldn't play he got out of shape a bit. but if you're trying to blame the teams lack of success early in the year on melo's conditioning, you're grasping at straws.

        the problem was much deeper than that. dantoni needs a great PG to run his idiotic system. he was too stubborn to change his offense to suit his roster. rather than run half court sets to emphasize what melo is best at, isolation, he tried to have him play point forward.

        as knicks fans we should be escatic that this roster didn't overachieve because it would mosty likely mean dantoni sticking around, which would be much more harmful for the teams future.

        the lockout, no training camp, a big roster change, several injuries, roster and rotation changes throughout the year, family tragedy, melo and amare's struggles, incompetent coaching... i'm proud the knicks have overcame all of those adversities to still be in the mix for the playoffs. as a fan you have to appreciate the good and not focus on all the negatives, or else you'll be miserable. it's not all about how the season ends, it's the ride along the way, the ups and downs that is entertaining.

        in regards to melo's inability to finish around the rim, a lot of it had to do with no one on the team being able to throw the ball in the ocean. melo was making great passes all year but no one could knock down an open shot. every time melo drove in the entire defense would collapse on him because they didn't have to worry about anyone else. with that said calling him the "worst finisher around the rim" this year or any other year is idiotic.

        the orlando game showed how good we can be if guys can make perimeter shots. let melo iso in the low post, if they don't double melo will score at will, if they do double kick the ball out, rotate to the open man and knock down the shot. basketball is a simple game, but players need direction. that's why dantoni was such a poor coach, he pretty much let guys wing it on every possession which led to countless bad shots and turnovers.

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        • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12



          I also think Melo's struggles can be attributed to two things. </P>


          1. Injuries have effected him alot. Especially early in the season when he was getting all of those offensive fouls trying to pot up. You don't see that now. </P>


          2. The media and fan expectation that he's a ball hog got in his head. Anyone that plays basketball regularly knows that shooting is all about being instictive and reactive. When you start thinking about your shot, or aiming your shot, or having any hesitations, you miss. And I think Melo was so focused on showing that he's a good team player that he would be overcalculating with every shot. He didn't just shoot, he had it in the back of his head that if it's not the perfect shot he'll be called a ball hog. </P>


          Now that everyone is expecting him to carry the offensive load, and shoot at will, you see he's more assertive and has a much clearer idea of what he should be doing. </P>
          All Hail The New York Giants!!

          Comment


          • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

            thats a great point about the mental aspect. people were calling him a ball hog despite the fact he was a willing passer but his teammates were missing open shots. eventually it got to the point where he tried to shoot through double teams because he knew his teammates would miss the open shot.

            also teams were keying in on him because no one else on our team was a capable scorer. teams were leaving amare wide open for 15 footers that were automatic last year, but this year amare was missing them.

            teams were playing melo close, forcing him to drive to the hoop and then collapsing on him because no one else on our team commanded the defense's respect. this was when bill walker, tony douglas, jeffries, amare and chandler were getting most of the minutes, before the emergence of novak, and the signing of JR.

            our starting lineup is still terrible in terms of shooting ability. melo is literally the only good scorer/shooter in our starting lineup so teams will still key in on him.

            i think novak should either start or get more minutes with melo. if novak spots up in the corner or at the top of the key teams will have to respect his shooting ability and it will give melo more room to work and they'll be less likely to double.

            that whole "can melo fit in with lin?" deal was mind boggling to me... can melo, a proven elite player for many years, fit in with basically a waiver wire rookie? i still dont understand that.

            blaming melo for the teams struggles is such a cop out. basketball like virtually all team sports is just that, a TEAM sport. chemistry is important and with all the rotation/roster changes it's no surprise it took awhile for this team to start playing well together as a TEAM.

            Comment


            • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

              [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"]


              [quote user="EliTE"]melo was in great shape early in the year, he got chubby when he sat out those games with injury earlier. melo is a beast when healthy, seems like you've only watched him this year in which he's been playing through injury mainly due to the condensed season and playing crazy minutes under dantoni. for a so called superstar, melo always gets hacked and mauled around the rim and hardly ever gets calls. he's by far the most clutch player in the league though, in case you haven't noticed. similar to eli he can be struggling in a game but turn in on in the 4th when it matters most.[/quote]* All i care about is this yr!* WHy would i care about what shape Melo was in last yr or any other yr for that matter?** His shots been off all season long, and Jeff Van Gundy made refrence to that about 5times last night..* I guess u just watched the past 2games this yr, ey?* Which just so happens to be* 2of melo's best games, and the one befoer the magic game, he again wasen't hitting anything but was nailing FT"s all game long.. The guys been terrible at finishing at the rim all season long, which has zip to do with anything other then ur just not finishing..*** Melo looked the exact same way he does now in the beggining of the season, and we actually discussed it then as well(talking about him looking outta shape)..* </P>


              Hey, i'm all for the Knicks playing well, and its about freaking time that they look complete.. I'm certainly not gonna give em a ton of praise, because they put themselves in a hole that will basically allow them at best to be 1st rd playoff losers yet again, which is incredible not good enough, and nowhere in the vecinity of what is acceptable for this team, and what all of us were expecting...</P>


              So, as they certainly looked fantastic last night and it was fun to watch, they've all ready destroyed there season, and set themselves up for a most likely very early exit in the playoffs...* </P>


              Not to mention, there 100times better with Amare injured, because for all the good he does offensively, he gives up more then that on the defensive end(at least this yr, when his offense is off by alot), so its not that surprising that were playing solid* "ALL AROUND" basketball without him..</P>


              The bottom line is its gonna take more then getting a game over 500* finally, and going on a solid streak under Woodson, sinced he became coach, to make me just forget the travesty which has been the knicks season to this point... </P>


              [/quote]Melo and Amare both looked out of shape this season ":Which is unforgivable at their salary". I think not having training camp messed with those guys a lot. NBA played way 2 many games this season. Injuries are popping up everywhere its sux that greed got in the way of the best possible product. NBA Schedule should of been 50 games[/quote]* Melo and Stat have been out of shape all season, and its shown with not only the injuries they got, but also when there on the court, especially around the rim, and even there jump shots, which have been terribly inconsistent the entire season..</P>


              Melo's jumper has finally looked decent, but hes gotta do it for more then a couple games in a row, and hes gotta start finishing when he gets around the rim, and get some AND 1'S..* </P>


              Hopefully Melo has found his groove finally, and he can play like hes been the past couple games, and finally be the consistent super star we've craved for, but i for one am gonna actually wait for him to consistently do it, before i start jumping on the Praise Wagon..lol* To this point,* Melo's trade has been a giant bust, and theres alot of work to be done before i change my opinion on that.... </P>[/quote]haha i read some of your posts and it's baffling to me. the melo trade was a giant bust? you would rather have felton, mozgoz and gallo right now? lol @ you. what happens when amare gets hurt? felton gonna put the team on his back?

              reading your posts you're basically declaring the season a failure already and looking forward to the draft... what is the point of watching or following the team anymore? since the season's over, stop posting in this thread.. allow me to remind you, being a fan is defined by supporting the team through ups and downs, you're entitled to your opinions and criticisms no matter how off base they are, but just enjoy the ride. stop saying the season is over when it's not.

              i had high expectations as well, but it was evident early in the year this roster didn't fit dantoni. now that we got rid of dantoni we'll see what this team can really do.

              as far as the team being better without amare, i agree if we're talking about amare earlier in the year... but the last few games he played in he started to look like the amare we all knew and loved so i would say we are no better off without that amare, but the spacing on the floor is better especially for melo.

              Comment


              • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                [quote user="EliTE"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"]


                [quote user="EliTE"]melo was in great shape early in the year, he got chubby when he sat out those games with injury earlier. melo is a beast when healthy, seems like you've only watched him this year in which he's been playing through injury mainly due to the condensed season and playing crazy minutes under dantoni. for a so called superstar, melo always gets hacked and mauled around the rim and hardly ever gets calls. he's by far the most clutch player in the league though, in case you haven't noticed. similar to eli he can be struggling in a game but turn in on in the 4th when it matters most.[/quote] All i care about is this yr! WHy would i care about what shape Melo was in last yr or any other yr for that matter? His shots been off all season long, and Jeff Van Gundy made refrence to that about 5times last night.. I guess u just watched the past 2games this yr, ey? Which just so happens to be 2of melo's best games, and the one befoer the magic game, he again wasen't hitting anything but was nailing FT"s all game long.. The guys been terrible at finishing at the rim all season long, which has zip to do with anything other then ur just not finishing.. Melo looked the exact same way he does now in the beggining of the season, and we actually discussed it then as well(talking about him looking outta shape).. </P>


                Hey, i'm all for the Knicks playing well, and its about freaking time that they look complete.. I'm certainly not gonna give em a ton of praise, because they put themselves in a hole that will basically allow them at best to be 1st rd playoff losers yet again, which is incredible not good enough, and nowhere in the vecinity of what is acceptable for this team, and what all of us were expecting...</P>


                So, as they certainly looked fantastic last night and it was fun to watch, they've all ready destroyed there season, and set themselves up for a most likely very early exit in the playoffs... </P>


                Not to mention, there 100times better with Amare injured, because for all the good he does offensively, he gives up more then that on the defensive end(at least this yr, when his offense is off by alot), so its not that surprising that were playing solid "ALL AROUND" basketball without him..</P>


                The bottom line is its gonna take more then getting a game over 500 finally, and going on a solid streak under Woodson, sinced he became coach, to make me just forget the travesty which has been the knicks season to this point... </P>


                [/quote]Melo and Amare both looked out of shape this season ":Which is unforgivable at their salary". I think not having training camp messed with those guys a lot. NBA played way 2 many games this season. Injuries are popping up everywhere its sux that greed got in the way of the best possible product. NBA Schedule should of been 50 games[/quote] Melo and Stat have been out of shape all season, and its shown with not only the injuries they got, but also when there on the court, especially around the rim, and even there jump shots, which have been terribly inconsistent the entire season..</P>


                Melo's jumper has finally looked decent, but hes gotta do it for more then a couple games in a row, and hes gotta start finishing when he gets around the rim, and get some AND 1'S.. </P>


                Hopefully Melo has found his groove finally, and he can play like hes been the past couple games, and finally be the consistent super star we've craved for, but i for one am gonna actually wait for him to consistently do it, before i start jumping on the Praise Wagon..lol To this point, Melo's trade has been a giant bust, and theres alot of work to be done before i change my opinion on that.... </P>


                [/quote]haha i read some of your posts and it's baffling to me. the melo trade was a giant bust? you would rather have felton, mozgoz and gallo right now? lol @ you. what happens when amare gets hurt? felton gonna put the team on his back? reading your posts you're basically declaring the season a failure already and looking forward to the draft... what is the point of watching or following the team anymore? since the season's over, stop posting in this thread.. allow me to remind you, being a fan is defined by supporting the team through ups and downs, you're entitled to your opinions and criticisms no matter how off base they are, but just enjoy the ride. stop saying the season is over when it's not. i had high expectations as well, but it was evident early in the year this roster didn't fit dantoni. now that we got rid of dantoni we'll see what this team can really do. as far as the team being better without amare, i agree if we're talking about amare earlier in the year... but the last few games he played in he started to look like the amare we all knew and loved so i would say we are no better off without that amare, but the spacing on the floor is better especially for melo.[/quote] I've been contributing to thisw thread from day one, all most daily, so i don't even know who u are???lol Did u just happen to skip over the part that said, " The melo trade has been a giant bust to this point, andtheres alot of work to be donebefore i change my mind about that"... </P>


                And yes, to this point, the Melo trade has been a giant bust, how u can say sitting in the 8th seed of the playoffs with 18games or whatever to go, and doing way more terribly afer we got Melo last yr, then we did before the trade, is not a bust so far??</P>


                And u talk about the trade like those 3players are all that was traded, we also traded valuable draft picks and filled up valuable cap space.. We put all our eggs in one basket basically, and as of right now, were a 8seed that had to fire our coach, and Melo's had the worst season of his career so far... Again, things can change, but i'm talking about right now, today... I've watched this team look like they were gonna turn the corner about 5times this yr, only to fall flat on there faces and dissapoint, so excuse me if i'm not just gonna jump on board and think everything solved now... I gotta wait before making that judgement...</P>

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                • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12



                  [quote user="EliTE"]thats a great point about the mental aspect. people were calling him a ball hog despite the fact he was a willing passer but his teammates were missing open shots. eventually it got to the point where he tried to shoot through double teams because he knew his teammates would miss the open shot. also teams were keying in on him because no one else on our team was a capable scorer. teams were leaving amare wide open for 15 footers that were automatic last year, but this year amare was missing them. teams were playing melo close, forcing him to drive to the hoop and then collapsing on him because no one else on our team commanded the defense's respect. this was when bill walker, tony douglas, jeffries, amare and chandler were getting most of the minutes, before the emergence of novak, and the signing of JR. our starting lineup is still terrible in terms of shooting ability. melo is literally the only good scorer/shooter in our starting lineup so teams will still key in on him. i think novak should either start or get more minutes with melo. if novak spots up in the corner or at the top of the key teams will have to respect his shooting ability and it will give melo more room to work and they'll be less likely to double. that whole "can melo fit in with lin?" deal was mind boggling to me... can melo, a proven elite player for many years, fit in with basically a waiver wire rookie? i still dont understand that. blaming melo for the teams struggles is such a cop out. basketball like virtually all team sports is just that, a TEAM sport. chemistry is important and with all the rotation/roster changes it's no surprise it took awhile for this team to start playing well together as a TEAM.[/quote] Melo's shots been terrible all season long, including well into the emergence of Novak and signing of Jr Smith and Baron Davis getting on board, and with Lin and with any and everybody you can think.. Did u happen to see the WINS before the last 2 since we got Woodson and what Melo's shooting was like? In fact, he even was only 8-20 against millwaukee as well... As far as his shooting, its yet to improve , the thing hes done is rebound and dish better then hes had, which has given him some decent all around games, but its nothing to do with his shooting, with or without the guys u mentioned...</P>


                  6-12 against portland</P>


                  4-12 indiana</P>


                  6-15 indiana</P>


                  5-15 toronto</P>


                  5-15 Phil</P>


                  6-15 Tor</P>


                  5-12 Det</P>

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                  • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                    Lin is out for tonight.

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                    • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                      [quote user="tripleaamin9"]Lin is out for tonight.[/quote]Hopefully Shumpert is starting again, and continues his emergence as a player i'm starting to think could be a 17pt 3-4assist 3-4rebound a GAME player in a yr or 2... I'm loving Iman Shumpert right now... I also hope they realize how important this game is, and show up... Tyson Chandler needs to be all over Zahza Pachulla and give us a big of offense tonight, and i expect him to have a pretty big game..

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                      • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                        stats arent the end all be all, a lot of those misses were on tip in attempts which make his shooting percentage look worse than it really was. melo has been plagued by injuries all year yet you act like he's missing wide open shots. how often does melo play with the guys you mentioned? novak is usually in with the second unit. melo is usually playing with chandler, amare, fields and lin, none of which can shoot the ball in the ocean so the defense keys in on him. thats why i said i think novak should get more minutes with melo, and he probably will now that amare is hurt.

                        the bottom line is melo is an elite scorer, he didnt just wake up this year and forget how to score. he's been hurt yet still playing hard and helping the team in other ways.

                        in regards to the trade, i agree in the sense that giving up draft picks sucked, but if we didnt trade for melo we would have had to pay wilson chandler, gallo, plus felton was still under contract so there wasnt much cap space to work with anyways.

                        we did not play worse after the trade i disagree completely with that, who knows what the knicks could have done last year if billups doesnt get hurt or the refs didnt hand boston the first 2 games.

                        this year you cant fairly evaluate because of the lockout, the entire preseason and training camp was lost, the roster was altered in a major way, and did i mention we had NO PG UNTIL LIN EMERGED. sure a competent coach could have possibly made it work but with dantoni we were doomed. amare was like a walking zombie most of the year, but that was probably melo's fault too.

                        what would the knicks look like right now if they didnt trade for melo? felton, fields, gallo, chandler, mozgoz and zombie amare, they would be at the bottom of the east.

                        there would be no lin, no novak, possibly no shumpert and definitely no jr smith. bottom line is the melo trade made this team relevant. melo is the least of my concerns. he's a proven talent in the league for many years and has the style of play that will last for many years unlike high flyers that will break down over time.

                        saying this season is a failure is premature but also shows your expectations may have been too high. i too thought knicks would be a 3-6 seed this year but with all the injuries, roster changes, incompetent coaching etc, its not surprising we're not. i just dont get all the melo hate, especially from the media, its like amare got a free pass all year long and its all melos fault that douglas, walker, bibby, and all the other scrubs cant throw the ball in the ocean.

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                        • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                          Carmelo has missed 4 lay ups already tonight for those who were questioning Sportzfan about CArmelo finishing at the rim.
                          I wish he would smash it down like Lebron but I have to remind myself he isnt Lebron

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                          • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                            Shumpert has really played well lately. Shooting looks better, Missing FT's though. 17 points so far tonight

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                            • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                              [quote user="Redeyejedi"]Shumpert has really played well lately. Shooting looks better, Missing FT's though. 17 points so far tonight[/quote]

                              He could be our franchise SG if he can get a more consistent shot.

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                              • Re: NY Knicks 2011-12

                                [quote user="Redeyejedi"]Shumpert has really played well lately. Shooting looks better, Missing FT's though. 17 points so far tonight[/quote] Ya, to bad Tyson Chandler makes me wanna puke with his laziness way to often.. How'd he get the persona of a Hustle player? He killed us tonight! So far anyways..

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