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NEW YORK KNICKS 2012-2013 THREAD

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  • bargs contract is the same length as amare's and like 10 mil less per season.

    knicks right now will have 76 mil committed for 2014/15 if melo takes his player option. this is not including the MLE the knicks will surely use this year and next, along with the contract they give to JR which will be around 6 mil in that season.

    so if you replace amare with bargs (not even including fields' horrible contract that redeye originally suggested in the trade) the knicks will still be over the cap. so there is no added financial benefit for swapping amare with bargs other than the owner paying less luxury tax. which makes the debate simply about amare vs bargs the player, along with amare's health.

    which brings me back to my original thought. i'd rather take the small chance of amare being healthy over bargs. if amare stays healthy (a huge if i know) it could potentially put the knicks over the top and give them a chance at a title. bargs doesn't do that. he is simply not the type of player that impacts the game like amare.

    if the knicks could somehow move bargs for other role players then maybe it would be more plausible to me. there was some talk about boozer for bargs this past season. i would definitely consider doing amare for boozer in a 3 team trade. boozer has by far the most value out of those players so the knicks or raptors would have to include other assets to get it done. the bulls just wanted to get under the luxury tax more so than they wanted to get rid of boozer i think.
    Last edited by kNicksGiants; 05-25-2013, 06:16 PM.

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    • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
      stat is a far more effecient offensive player than barnani, not even close. also a far better rebounder and defender.

      where do you come up with this nonsense about stat being useless playing with melo? do you even watch the games or look at advanced statistics at all? according to advanced statistics the knicks best lineup was felton, JR, melo, stat, chandler.

      stat and melo playing together has NEVER been the problem. the problem was a combination of dantoni being a terrible coach that tried to play amare as a stretch 4 and have him shooting 3s (same thing he did to gasol on the lakers) due to chandler killing the offensive spacing along with amare's health. when amare was healthy this season he was playing amazing. i think he had a top 10 per if i'm not mistaken.

      the only reason for anyone to want to trade amare is his health and his contract. his play with melo has never been a problem. it's been completely overblown by the media and ignorant fans that just blame the 2 best players on the team.

      barnani is trash. doesn't rebound, doesn't defend, doesn't stay healthy. he's a worse version of stat. on paper he might fit better in between chandler and melo but that is only on offense. he's a worse defender and rebounder than stat. plus i doubt woodson would ever have a frontcourt of melo, bargs and chandler. he's in love with small ball and melo at the 4.
      I think the Knicks need a stretch 4 Ive made that point many times. The spacing cant work with all 3 on the court. I think the pieces fit together better with a healthy Bargs. You may be right though Woodson probably would screw it all up and play them opposite each other which would totally negate the value he has.If you arent going to play him with Melo the majority of minutes then Amare is better to have.
      I also like the flexibility of 2 contracts rather then just 1 big 1 at the trade deadline if there is a piece they want. Amares expiring is great but its not going to be easy to find a 23 million in salaries to send back if that team is over
      Last edited by Redeyejedi; 05-25-2013, 08:09 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
        I think the Knicks need a stretch 4 Ive made that point many times. The spacing cant work with all 3 on the court. I think the pieces fit together better with a healthy Bargs. You may be right though Woodson probably would screw it all up and play them opposite each other which would totally negate the value he has.If you arent going to play him with Melo the majority of minutes then Amare is better to have.
        I also like the flexibility of 2 contracts rather then just 1 big 1 at the trade deadline if there is a piece they want. Amares expiring is great but its not going to be easy to find a 23 million in salaries to send back if that team is over
        it would help the offensive spacing but our defense would be even worse. bargs is a horrible rebounder and defender. i agree about the flexibility assuming bargs stayed healthy and upped his value some. fields is a horrible contract though, i doubt anyone would take him in any deal. he's not an nba caliber player.

        you're viewing it more as a trade for the future rebuild where as i'm still all in for the best chance of winning this year or next. plus you guys know i'm a homer and i still love amare... i really don't like bargs' game at all. i still despise fields as well (as a player, not as a person). i would view as a step back even if bargs was healthy.

        i don't think the spacing is the big problem with melo/amare, especially now that amare developed a solid post game and melo has improved his 3pt shooting. tyson is more of the problem. if the knicks had a center like gasol OMG stat and melo would absolutely work.
        Last edited by kNicksGiants; 05-25-2013, 08:31 PM.

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        • According to PER last season are PG's was the worst group for this team.

          Were did u find the + - with Melo and Stoudamire because from the 82 games site I got an even + - from adding and subtracting. The best lineup per minute I could find with all 3 on the court was Kidd Smith Melo Stoudamire Chandler. That Lineup was +25 in 56 minutes which is ridiculous really.
          The Felton Smith Melo Stoudamire Chandler group was +4 in 103 minutes. Not really that impressive. The worst unit with them together is with Stoudamire at Center. Prigioni-Smith-Novak-Anthony-Stoudemire was -29 in 47 minutes thats awful.

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          • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
            it would help the offensive spacing but our defense would be even worse. bargs is a horrible rebounder and defender. i agree about the flexibility assuming bargs stayed healthy and upped his value some. fields is a horrible contract though, i doubt anyone would take him in any deal. he's not an nba caliber player.

            you're viewing it more as a trade for the future rebuild where as i'm still all in for the best chance of winning this year or next. plus you guys know i'm a homer and i still love amare... i really don't like bargs' game at all. i still despise fields as well (as a player, not as a person).
            I think Fields sux to by the way I just know we would have to take that contract back from them to make that deal.

            Also the rebounding with Bargs at the 4 would still be better then who is playing the 3 for the Knicks now. If Woody doesnt play Melo and Bargs together though this trade is counter productive

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            • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
              it would help the offensive spacing but our defense would be even worse. bargs is a horrible rebounder and defender. i agree about the flexibility assuming bargs stayed healthy and upped his value some. fields is a horrible contract though, i doubt anyone would take him in any deal. he's not an nba caliber player.

              you're viewing it more as a trade for the future rebuild where as i'm still all in for the best chance of winning this year or next. plus you guys know i'm a homer and i still love amare... i really don't like bargs' game at all. i still despise fields as well (as a player, not as a person). i would view as a step back even if bargs was healthy.

              i don't think the spacing is the big problem with melo/amare, especially now that amare developed a solid post game and melo has improved his 3pt shooting. tyson is more of the problem. if the knicks had a center like gasol OMG stat and melo would absolutely work.
              1 thing about trading Amare that worries me is would future FA's look at us sending him to Toronto as Dirty and not want to sign in NY, Only good thing is not the same GM but still

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              • How disgusting is it that Wade didnt get suspended for last nights game but JR got suspended for Game 4. Maybe a weeks worth of rest for Melo would of helped

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                • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
                  stat is a far more effecient offensive player than barnani, not even close. also a far better rebounder and defender.

                  where do you come up with this nonsense about stat being useless playing with melo? do you even watch the games or look at advanced statistics at all? according to advanced statistics the knicks best lineup was felton, JR, melo, stat, chandler.

                  stat and melo playing together has NEVER been the problem. the problem was a combination of dantoni being a terrible coach that tried to play amare as a stretch 4 and have him shooting 3s (same thing he did to gasol on the lakers) due to chandler killing the offensive spacing along with amare's health. when amare was healthy this season he was playing amazing. i think he had a top 10 per if i'm not mistaken.

                  the only reason for anyone to want to trade amare is his health and his contract. his play with melo has never been a problem. it's been completely overblown by the media and ignorant fans that just blame the 2 best players on the team.

                  barnani is trash. doesn't rebound, doesn't defend, doesn't stay healthy. he's a worse version of stat. on paper he might fit better in between chandler and melo but that is only on offense. he's a worse defender and rebounder than stat. plus i doubt woodson would ever have a frontcourt of melo, bargs and chandler. he's in love with small ball and melo at the 4.
                  Are u kidding? Stat can't dribble at all, gets the ball smacked outta his hands all the time, and thats what hes good at, since his jumper has pretty much sucked for over a year now. Bargniani can draw opposing teams big out further,, as hes more of a threat from deep then STAT, allowing our athletes to attack the rim more, like Melo, Shump, and Smith..

                  I'd take a chance with Bargniani at this point, adding another shooter, and guy who dosen't need to be the "guy" on offense.. If Bargniani avg's 15 or 16 pts a game, he won't be critisized as much as Stat will, and can just fit in to our team, as opposed to Stat having to here he dosen't fit if he dosen't avg 20 a game with 10rebounds..

                  I dont love either player, but I think Bargniani would fit better..

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                  • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                    1 thing about trading Amare that worries me is would future FA's look at us sending him to Toronto as Dirty and not want to sign in NY, Only good thing is not the same GM but still
                    Money talks, and its NYC.. None of that would matter.. Not to mention, why would players not look at it as Stats fault he got traded? Hes the guy who coulden't stay on the court, and when he did, he wasen't impactful at all most of the time.

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                    • Also, if we traded for Bargniani, its not like we coulden't add defense in this yrs draft, as theres plenty of tough defenders in this yrs class.

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                      • bargs isn't a good shooter though, check his stats. stat is a far superior player, not even close.

                        22 per vs. 11. not even close.

                        amare averaged 14 points and 5 rebounds in like 24 minutes on high efficiency. only 1.7 turnovers as well.


                        once again, the ONLY reason to even discuss the trade is stat's inability to stay healthy. bargs is a worse player period. even worse rebounder and defender. the idea of him being on the knicks make me want to puke.

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                        • Lots of talk on this thread about big changes to the team, but I just don't see many significant changes coming. Nor should they be. I know they lost to IND in a disappointing way, but this was still a 50 win team despite a ton of injuries and most of the team being together for the first time. You need to have some continuity and there are some reasons to like this teams' future.

                          No one is trading for amare's contract. The only time that may come into play is when he hits his last season. Besides, I'm not so sure he's done being a factor for this team. Having a full offseason to be with the team and find a role could make a big difference.
                          All Hail The New York Giants!!

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                          • in case yall forgot how great amare played this past season...

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEzN9lVB5g

                            he's still one of the most talented big men in the league. it's amazing how he added a competent post game in a couple weeks training with hakeem. if only he didn't have an incompetent coach for most of his career that doesn't believe in post up basketball. his touch around the rim is outstanding.

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                            • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
                              in case yall forgot how great amare played this past season...

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEzN9lVB5g

                              he's still one of the most talented big men in the league. it's amazing how he added a competent post game in a couple weeks training with hakeem. if only he didn't have an incompetent coach for most of his career that doesn't believe in post up basketball. his touch around the rim is outstanding.
                              He couldnt stay healthy even in limited minutes.I really want to shed that contract for smaller pieces so if a player we want comes available in a year that we want we can trade an expiring contract. This group cant win the Championship should stay competitive but also try to prepare for 2015 offseason

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                              • Originally posted by TrueBlue@NYC View Post
                                Lots of talk on this thread about big changes to the team, but I just don't see many significant changes coming. Nor should they be. I know they lost to IND in a disappointing way, but this was still a 50 win team despite a ton of injuries and most of the team being together for the first time. You need to have some continuity and there are some reasons to like this teams' future.

                                No one is trading for amare's contract. The only time that may come into play is when he hits his last season. Besides, I'm not so sure he's done being a factor for this team. Having a full offseason to be with the team and find a role could make a big difference.
                                Nah, i don't think they'll be able to make many moves at all. Thats why i want them to get 2 1st rders this yr. That trade we discussed is a super long shot and just chatter amongst us, knowing most likely its not happening..

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