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NEW YORK KNICKS 2012-2013 THREAD

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  • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    I said that a ton last yr, and got sarcastic remarks from KnicksGiants about it, like i was crazy.. Now everyone on these boards sees it and brings it up..lol I coulden't believe he WON DPOY award.. His numbers were mad decieving ...
    ummm no that never happened. maybe if you called him a bum or a scrub or degraded him like you so often do to the team's best players, perhaps i called you out for that.

    the knicks defense was actually pretty good last year, even under dantoni. it was the offense that was the bigger problem, just as it has been lately this year.

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    • the biggest problem with the defense is the scheme woodson uses. it promotes lazy defense because if you get picked you just switch instead of fighting through the pick. which leads to mismatches all over the place. i understand the need to switch in certain situations but if you watch the games you see a team basically fake to set a screen and we switch, giving them what they want. it worked somewhat earlier in the year but teams adjust when they get tape on you and see what you're doing in certain situations.

      as i've said before though i'm much more concerned about the offense. we will never been an elite defensive team because we don't have elite defensive players. we don't have lebron and wade on the wing closing out on shooters. we don't have a huge front court and ball hawking wings like a memphis. etc etc. it's not simply about effort. everyone on the team could give 100% effort on defense and we'd still only be a good defensive team, not a great one.

      this is, and should be an offensive led team. our recent losses have been due to us not scoring even close to our season average. this is a league similar to the NFL where the rules have been changed to favor high scoring games. so when we're out there scoring in the 80s or low 90s... that is a huge concern for me. especially when it happened against the raptors and clippers, 2 teams that are not good defensively.

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      • that's the rub though, we should be a high-powered offensive team, but we have seen when opposing teams D up and/or certain guys go into snides we seem to look very one-dimensional out there.

        This is a major reason why I wish we were bigger in the frontcourt, dribble penetration and physicality is not what I think of when I think Knicks.

        We have a team with at least 3 Shooters but more often than not it's Melo doing most of the converting...and if we can't trap or otherwise D up on the opposite side of the court we end up getting in trouble.

        So many times the other team goes on a 8-0 or 10-0 run NOT because they better than us but because our guys don't make good shots or otherwise try to score while in transition. Great in theory but without the results we'll see the long rebound, transition in the other direction and typically another FG for "the other guys."

        I think some of it is scheme but some of it is personel.


        NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

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        • Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
          ummm no that never happened. maybe if you called him a bum or a scrub or degraded him like you so often do to the team's best players, perhaps i called you out for that.

          the knicks defense was actually pretty good last year, even under dantoni. it was the offense that was the bigger problem, just as it has been lately this year.
          Uhhh, ya it did happen.. And know it wasen't degrading at all.. And Bum isn't degrading, its called frustration.. These guys aren't my best friends dude, there my favorite team.. I always explain my way of thinking about anything i say..

          And yes, i did call out chandler exactly for being what many on here are saying now, and Redeye can vouch .. I said something like " I know he gets rebounds and the numbers are there, but if u watch chandler all the time, theres plenty of more plays he should make and shots he should contest, and he stands around alot".. Something to that matter... And u chimed back like i was crazy because of his numbers or something.. Maybe it wasen't you, but ur the only one i can think of that sees roses when its clearly more like a local park dandilion...lol Which dosen't mean totally sucks, but not as good as hoped or expected.

          THeres no doubt your a passionate fan and you know ur stuff, but ur alittle to rose colored glasses for me. And on my part, you simply neglect to look at all the positives i write and reasons i write some of the frustrational stuff....

          I'm gonna call it like i see it, regardless.

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          • Originally posted by giantyankee1976 View Post
            that's the rub though, we should be a high-powered offensive team, but we have seen when opposing teams D up and/or certain guys go into snides we seem to look very one-dimensional out there.

            This is a major reason why I wish we were bigger in the frontcourt, dribble penetration and physicality is not what I think of when I think Knicks.

            We have a team with at least 3 Shooters but more often than not it's Melo doing most of the converting...and if we can't trap or otherwise D up on the opposite side of the court we end up getting in trouble.

            So many times the other team goes on a 8-0 or 10-0 run NOT because they better than us but because our guys don't make good shots or otherwise try to score while in transition. Great in theory but without the results we'll see the long rebound, transition in the other direction and typically another FG for "the other guys."

            I think some of it is scheme but some of it is personel.
            There is way to many easy Layups for oppositon because of know one getting back on D, i noticed for awhile now.. Seems like STAT and Chandler both are guilty of not getting back way more then ever should happen, and usually its off a bad shot by us, where u have to get back quickly becuase the other teams getting a long rebound and quick outlet pass and then there off and running for easy hoop unless someone hustles back..
            This team is frustrating because u know the potential if they play hard and team basketball, but u can't teach old dogs new tricks it seems, and old habits always find there way back with these paticular team, eventually... And thats where i get on Melo, becasue we bring in really good defenders and team orientated players and we'll play nasty for alittle while and then get back to isolation and not moving the ball, and not getting back on D, and not extending arms and contesting shots and letting to many wideopen jump shots...etc SO i gotta think, its the leader of the team MELO not making complete changes and becoming the leader we need, but his same old all offense, and defense when he feels like it approach that rubs off on other players.. I still love the guy though..


            Melo was brilliant in All Star game though.. Its funny, becuase he played D more then most of the guys.. I think he understood points would be the same area between a few of the guys like Lebron and Wade, and he needed something else on top of points to get the MVP, and he pounded the boards..He definetly would of gotten MVP had the east WON! Sucks he didn't!

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            • yeah he was great last night...

              and I agree, if Tyson or even Amar'e stepped up and into their roles and brought that physicality, wow.
              As to leadership, there are different styles, but the coaches play a part too.

              Increase the ball movement to open up the floor, figure out what the other team is doing defensively (zone, trap, man) use the Pick more often, even some give and goes for an Amar'e or Felton...

              Defensively my wish is at least half-court pressure, maybe a few traps, get in the ball handlers way, force him to go to his other hand,, chase them out the paint do something for crying out loud.


              NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

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              • Actually I think one of our biggest problems right now is teams have figured out the whole Melo at PF thing. They simply don't buy into it and put their SF on Melo on defense anyway and let their PF play whoever is at SF for us (usually Shump or Novak), who aren't going to drive the lane to take advantage of what you would think is a mis-match. Actually, I think once Sheed and/or Camby come back you wont be seeing Melo at the 4 very much, they're doing it more out of necessity since Stat and Candler are the only big bodies in the rotation.

                They may also need to consider trading Novak. He's too one dimensional and teams have pretty much committed to giving the ball to whoever he's guarding on defense, no matter what type of scorer they are because he's so bad that it's either and easy baket or a foul.
                All Hail The New York Giants!!

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                • I kind of agree with you about #16...


                  NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

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                  • http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...-to-the-knicks

                    Iman for JJ...what the fridge are they smoking?

                    Re**** for Novak but not Shump.


                    NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by giantyankee1976 View Post
                      http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...-to-the-knicks

                      Iman for JJ...what the fridge are they smoking?

                      Re**** for Novak but not Shump.
                      JJ is perfect for this team.. It would be hard to give up Shump, no way the Magic would do a JJ for Novak swap..

                      I'm on the fence

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                      • not me Iman is young and has tremendous upside, BUT if this team is in a "win-now" strategy then nothing is out of left field.

                        to me, making moves to get "veteran players" indicates a "win-now" state of mind, contrasted with say BK's build and modify for the short-to-mid term...

                        JJ for Shump is possible but I'd hate it because we'd lose a (still healing) Defender who's tall and athletic for another Shooter, which is why 16 can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.


                        NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

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                        • Am I the only 1 really depressed about this team. We went all in traded every asset we had to get older players. Honestly this team is no better then the rest of the teams in the East that arent beating the Heat so who cares. I think they lose in the 1st round and its only getting worse from here. We are going to get worse and we dont own are draft picks. Denver owns the 2014 and 2016 picks . We have zero 2nd rounders . I dont think u guys realize just how dark the days ahead are

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                          • i highly doubt we lose in the first round. unless we end up playing chicago or indiana in the first. even then i see us winning a tough series.

                            denver doesn't own our 2016 pick, they have the right to swap picks that year.

                            i'm not sure if you're serious in considering tony douglas, harrelson, jerome jordan, etc as assets lol

                            the only asset we had was lin and we let him go for nothing, we didn't trade him.

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                            • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                              Am I the only 1 really depressed about this team. We went all in traded every asset we had to get older players. Honestly this team is no better then the rest of the teams in the East that arent beating the Heat so who cares. I think they lose in the 1st round and its only getting worse from here. We are going to get worse and we dont own are draft picks. Denver owns the 2014 and 2016 picks . We have zero 2nd rounders . I dont think u guys realize just how dark the days ahead are
                              I think most of us do, now. Like I said I was cautiously optimistic at Season's start and there is a stat that shows when the Knicks hit more than 11 3-balls they are like 25 and some-odd

                              They rely entirely too much on the trey-ball and like you said and we all realize, we're too old and not physical enough, I do not and never did miss Lin, but perhaps the nucleus should be Melo, Iman and JR ? We need IMO, 2 dominant big men to control the low post and battle for boards.

                              Tyson as many of you pointed out, takes mental vacations far too much and did I mention we rely on the mid-range to 3-ball shots waaay too much?


                              NFL Championships : 1927 1934 1938 1956 Super Bowl Champions: XXI XXV XLII XLVI

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                              • yea i saw a stat that said we're first in 3 pointers attempted, and last in points in the paint. that wouldn't be the case if amare was playing all year but it is what it is. we started the year hot by playing small ball and surrounding melo with shooters. then brewer and kidd forgot how to make a jump shot and we fell off a bit.

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