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Not about the giants but Ray Lewis says he will retire at the end of the seaon.

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  • Not about the giants but Ray Lewis says he will retire at the end of the seaon.

    No this isn't about the giants but it's something that affects football as a whole.

    Giants fans watching in 2000 know more than anyone what the guy can do and what he has done.

    Respect.

  • #2
    He gets no respect from me for his off the field activities.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TroyArcher View Post
      He gets no respect from me for his off the field activities.
      What activites? Seriously? Are we really gonna say that a guy who was in the same area as a stabbing instantly means HE did it? Is that what we've become?

      Next time you hear gunshots nearby, I'll be sure to report you for shooting someone as soon as possible. Especially if you're famous.
      Last edited by GentleGiant; 01-02-2013, 04:11 PM.

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      • #4
        So will Hester, probably Urlacher, Reed, Tony Gonzalez, Driver, Moss, Woodson?
        "Once a Giant, ALWAYS, a Giant."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
          No this isn't about the giants but it's something that affects football as a whole.

          Giants fans watching in 2000 know more than anyone what the guy can do and what he has done.

          Respect.

          Making Kerry Collins crap his pants isn't exactly high praise.

          I did think he was a very good field leader though.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
            What activites? Seriously? Are we really gonna say that a guy who was in the same area as a stabbing instantly means HE did it? Is that what we've become?

            Next time you hear gunshots nearby, I'll be sure to report you for shooting someone as soon as possible. Especially if you're famous.
            You might want to check the facts on this one. He was hardly an innocent bystander.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
              You might want to check the facts on this one. He was hardly an innocent bystander.
              Winning D player of the year twice is.

              You might want to check your facts cause there's this little thing called "wrong place at wrong time"

              Last time I checked buddy, innocent bystanders go free. What's your excuse? He's famous? OJ was famous too. A magic fairy took the evidence? Just admit you don't like the ravens or your sour pus cause they blew us out.

              Typical. Bunch of ignorant fools who jump on the possibility of any famous person who isn't on their team being arrested.

              YOU sir might want to check your facts. Cause your "facts" sounds more like ignorant jargon.
              Last edited by GentleGiant; 01-02-2013, 08:41 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                Winning D player of the year twice is.

                You might want to check your facts cause there's this little thing called "wrong place at wrong time"

                Last time I checked buddy, innocent bystanders go free. What's your excuse? He's famous? OJ was famous too. A magic fairy took the evidence? Just admit you don't like the ravens or your sour pus cause they blew us out.

                Typical. Bunch of ignorant fools who jump on the possibility of any famous person who isn't on their team being arrested.

                YOU sir might want to check your facts. Cause your "facts" sounds more like ignorant jargon.

                Exactly what facts have I stated? You're becoming a little unhinged, son. I have no issue with the Ravens, not with Lewis. They deserved that SB, the Giants weren't even competitive in that game. That's how close it wasn't. Why would that color my judgment over a decade later? Are you really that childish that you would believe such nonsense?

                I never questioned his play; I think he was one of the top LBs ever to play the game.

                Your inane rant was: "What activites? Seriously? Are we really gonna say that a guy who was in the same area as a stabbing instantly means HE did it? Is that what we've become?

                Next time you hear gunshots nearby, I'll be sure to report you for shooting someone as soon as possible. Especially if you're famous."

                That's what I questioned. If you want to argue this I'll gladly do so. But please have your facts straight before we do so.

                Innocent bystander means no affiliation to the crime. Is that - seriously - what you are purporting to the case here? Completely innocent bystander?
                Last edited by Sarcasman; 01-02-2013, 08:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
                  Exactly what facts have I stated? You're becoming a little unhinged, son. I have no issue with the Ravens, not with Lewis. They deserved that SB, the Giants weren't even competitive in that game. That's how close it wasn't. Why would that color my judgment over a decade later? Are you really that childish that you would believe such nonsense?

                  I never questioned his play; I think he was one of the top LBs ever to play the game.

                  Your inane rant was: "What activites? Seriously? Are we really gonna say that a guy who was in the same area as a stabbing instantly means HE did it? Is that what we've become?

                  Next time you hear gunshots nearby, I'll be sure to report you for shooting someone as soon as possible. Especially if you're famous."

                  That's what I questioned. If you want to argue this I'll gladly do so. But please have your facts straight before we do so.

                  Innocent bystander means no affiliation to the crime. Is that - seriously - what you are purporting to the case here? Completely innocent bystander?
                  Where did I say you questioned his play?

                  There were dozens of people there. Are they innocent bystanders? Funny how the one guy being considered happens to be the star LB.

                  Of course he was a complete innocent bystander. My God people it was 12 years ago. If any "hidden evidence" or "hush hush" happened, don't you think it would have been brought up by now? The only people who still bring it up still are steelers fans or people who just hate him or the ravens(like steelers fans). There is ZERO proof, ZERO that he actually did it. But I'm sure the average person would instantly

                  Every fool just translates " black football player who acts angry for show" at crime scene = angry black football player did it.

                  There was a crowd of people there. Why would the one guy out of dozens of people who is getting payed millions risk something pointless the same season he's gonna win the SB?



                  The guy testified against the 2 guys who did it. Obviously if he was trying to cover some guy, he wouldn't be testifying against them.

                  The guys got kids and family.

                  He was at the building filled with dozens. Gun shots go off. He drives away. The police state that they were looking for HIS car because it was seen leaving the area(NOT because the person driving was the killer). He admits that he misleaded the cops. He explains and testifies against the people(who were also found not guilty) in exchange for 12 year probation(not years in jail for murder) for obstruction of justice(not murder).
                  The other two guys were found not guilty. Why are we saying Ray Lewis wasn't innocent? Why not the 2 other guys?
                  If you want to and say his mislead makes him not an innocent bystander, fine, but that doesn't make him a culprit and the thought of it is ridiculous.
                  The guy in real life is about as much a bad guy as tim tebow, Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald or Troy Polamalu.

                  The facts are that Lewis was indicted, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge and testified against the two men, who were eventually found not guilty. He may also be a redeemed soul — and without a doubt he is one of the very few best defensive players in NFL history. Taken together, that is a more complete version of his legacy.


                  The madness is when everyone hears about a player being "considered" they translate that as "HE DD IT".

                  BEN RAPED SOMEONE( even though the only proof is from a drunken girl who was stalking him).

                  The reality is if famous players were getting away with stuff, Vick wouldn't have been in jail.
                  Last edited by GentleGiant; 01-02-2013, 09:33 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                    Where did I say you questioned his play?

                    Of course he was a complete innocent bystander. My God people it was 12 years ago. If any "hidden evidence" or "hush hush" happened, don't you think it would have been brought up by now? The only people who still bring it up still are steelers fans or people who just hate him or the ravens(like steelers fans). There is ZERO proof, ZERO that he actually did it. But I'm sure the average person would instantly

                    Every fool just translates " black football player who acts angry for show" at crime scene = angry black football player did it.

                    There was a crowd of people there. Why would the one guy out of dozens of people who is getting payed millions risk something pointless the same season he's gonna win the SB?



                    The guy testified against the 2 guys who did it. Obviously if he was trying to cover some guy, he wouldn't be testifying against them.

                    The guys got kids and family.

                    He was at the building filled with dozens. Gun shots go off. He drives away. The police state that they were looking for HIS car because it was seen leaving the area(NOT because the person driving was the killer). He admits that he misleaded the cops. He explains and testifies against the people(who were also found not guilty) in exchange for 12 year probation(not years in jail for murder) for obstruction of justice(not murder).
                    The other two guys were found not guilty. Why are we saying Ray Lewis wasn't innocent? Why not the 2 other guys?
                    If you want to and say his mislead makes him not an innocent bystander, fine, but that doesn't make him a culprit and the thought of it is ridiculous.
                    The guy in real life is about as much a bad guy as tim tebow, Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald or Troy Polamalu.

                    The facts are that Lewis was indicted, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge and testified against the two men, who were eventually found not guilty. He may also be a redeemed soul — and without a doubt he is one of the very few best defensive players in NFL history. Taken together, that is a more complete version of his legacy.

                    Thank you for getting the facts before responding again. The sheer number of wrongheaded assumptions, dime store psychology BS and idiotic leaps to false conclusions - not to mention the borderline racebaiting without even a scintilla of actual data - in your previous posts were getting tiring to say the least.

                    So can we safely assume that you've moved off of completely innocent bystander, right?

                    Because completely innocent bystanders always get indicted, plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for testifying against their friends and have the blood of the victim found in their limo, don't they? Do I think he stabbed the guy? Of course not. But that's a far cry from innocent bystander.

                    All that said, your closing sentence "He may also be a redeemed soul — and without a doubt he is one of the very few best defensive players in NFL history. Taken together, that is a more complete version of his legacy." is in my mundane opinion a very apt description of the man and his legacy.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sarcasman View Post
                      Thank you for getting the facts before responding again. The sheer number of wrongheaded assumptions, dime store psychology BS and idiotic leaps to false conclusions - not to mention the borderline racebaiting without even a scintilla of actual data - in your previous posts were getting tiring to say the least.

                      So can we safely assume that you've moved off of completely innocent bystander, right?

                      Because completely innocent bystanders always get indicted, plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for testifying against their friends and have the blood of the victim found in their limo, don't they? Do I think he stabbed the guy? Of course not. But that's a far cry from innocent bystander.

                      All that said, your closing sentence "He may also be a redeemed soul — and without a doubt he is one of the very few best defensive players in NFL history. Taken together, that is a more complete version of his legacy." is in my mundane opinion a very apt description of the man and his legacy.
                      That depends. Are you done trying to tease this and basically trying to come as a guy trying to nitpick?

                      No because not saying he's an innocent bystander means you're saying he's a murderer or an accomplice. If you're seriously trying to be "technical" about it by saying oh technically he wasn't an innocent bystander cause of the lesser charge then we're done here cause then you're just trying to nitpick the whole thing. You say he didn't do it but then bring up all this other stuff about it. I'm sorry if he wasn't an angel.

                      I should also mention that the limo had 11 other passengers. Not to mention the limo driver was watching Lewis the whole time and never saw him even hit anyone let alone commit double murder. Gun shots were fired AT the limo. I'm not surprised the limo had blood. So if he did it then who the hell was shooting at him?



                      If the guy isn't an innocent bystander then he's a guilty bystander. Yet you say he didn't do it. Coming off as a guy whose saying he didn't do it but then constantly teasing it as if he did do it is way more annoying then anything I said cause it comes as trying to flame something. We're not talking about whether or not he's an innocent bystander for something irelevant like a lesser charge. We're talking about whether he did or not. You know what's more annoying? Trying to figure out why a guy keeps bringing up "innocent bystander" then realizing he's not talking about the actual point of this and trying to change the subject from "did he do it?" to "is he an angel?"

                      Was it really that hard to finally say "I don't think he did" instead of using this innocent bystander jargon?
                      If you don't think he did it then why are you coming off as if he did? And race being mentioned is a big deal seeing as Lewis has been working in humanitarian groups and charity and yet people still talk about this. Point is if Drew Brees or tebow were in the same situation as Lewis there would by less hate and you know that.
                      Last edited by GentleGiant; 01-03-2013, 07:37 PM.

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                      • #12
                        its not like Lewis has given off that "thug" vibe, i couldn't imagine him having any other part in that stabbing aside from being in the same area. he's crazy, but he doesn't seem like the type that would go ahead and murder someone in such a way. and for what, what would have been the motive?

                        he will always go down as the defensive player with the single best defensive performance in the super bowl. son of a ***** was everywhere, getting his hands on the ball all the time. it was unreal. tackles for losses, passes defensed, tips, everything. ridiculous performance

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NYG 5 View Post
                          its not like Lewis has given off that "thug" vibe, i couldn't imagine him having any other part in that stabbing aside from being in the same area. he's crazy, but he doesn't seem like the type that would go ahead and murder someone in such a way. and for what, what would have been the motive?

                          he will always go down as the defensive player with the single best defensive performance in the super bowl. son of a ***** was everywhere, getting his hands on the ball all the time. it was unreal. tackles for losses, passes defensed, tips, everything. ridiculous performance

                          I recomend watching "a football life ray lewis". The whole "crazy" thing is an act.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                            I recomend watching "a football life ray lewis". The whole "crazy" thing is an act.
                            well yeah, i meant he's crazy as in football crazy, not like OJ simpson crazy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GentleGiant View Post
                              That depends. Are you done trying to tease this and basically trying to come as a guy trying to nitpick?

                              No because not saying he's an innocent bystander means you're saying he's a murderer or an accomplice. If you're seriously trying to be "technical" about it by saying oh technically he wasn't an innocent bystander cause of the lesser charge then we're done here cause then you're just trying to nitpick the whole thing. You say he didn't do it but then bring up all this other stuff about it. I'm sorry if he wasn't an angel.

                              I should also mention that the limo had 11 other passengers. Not to mention the limo driver was watching Lewis the whole time and never saw him even hit anyone let alone commit double murder. Gun shots were fired AT the limo. I'm not surprised the limo had blood. So if he did it then who the hell was shooting at him?



                              If the guy isn't an innocent bystander then he's a guilty bystander. Yet you say he didn't do it. Coming off as a guy whose saying he didn't do it but then constantly teasing it as if he did do it is way more annoying then anything I said cause it comes as trying to flame something. We're not talking about whether or not he's an innocent bystander for something irelevant like a lesser charge. We're talking about whether he did or not. You know what's more annoying? Trying to figure out why a guy keeps bringing up "innocent bystander" then realizing he's not talking about the actual point of this and trying to change the subject from "did he do it?" to "is he an angel?"

                              Was it really that hard to finally say "I don't think he did" instead of using this innocent bystander jargon?
                              If you don't think he did it then why are you coming off as if he did? And race being mentioned is a big deal seeing as Lewis has been working in humanitarian groups and charity and yet people still talk about this. Point is if Drew Brees or tebow were in the same situation as Lewis there would by less hate and you know that.

                              I'm neither teasing it nor nitpicking.

                              I initially reacted to this stupid and indefensible statement: "Next time you hear gunshots nearby, I'll be sure to report you for shooting someone as soon as possible. Especially if you're famous." because that's exactly what it is.

                              So, I'm sorry you don't like the followup conversation. It could have been easily avoided had you simply acknowledged immediately that that statement was completely incorrect and that while Lewis almost certainly didn't stab anyone himself, he was absolutely involved and that he learned something important early in his career and then decided to change his life. That would have been correct, defensible and all good. But you didn't; instead you decided to try to attempt to argue it and when that failed, you then complained that the argument is splitting hairs.

                              So if you're unhappy about what you call "what's more annoying", blame yourself because it's a door you opened. I didn't.

                              To answer your question, yes, I could have quickly and easily said that I do not believe he did the actual stabbing. But again, that's a far cry from not being involved at all and miles away from what you initially claimed. Those are facts, not message board blather.

                              If all you ever intended to talk about was whether he did the actual stabbing, then you should limit your comments to that specifically, more than that and it begins to get messy as you can now see. Because there's your perspective and then there's the legal perspective and from a legal perspective he was absolutely and completely criminally involved. That much is of record. And you clearly have no interest in either understanding or acknowledging how the law works with regard to that. Or you think it's not important or nitpicking. That's fine, I have no desire to argue the details of the law with you about whether he was an accomplice or an accessory, that was for the courts to decide and they did.

                              Your last hypothetical may have some validity from a social point of view but it's irrelevant to me since you're discussing it from a media and fan perspective. Because this specific situation is a matter of black and white letter of law, I have no desire to speculate what the public, social media or any other demographic might think about it. I'd view it exactly the same because Brees or Tebow's hypothetical culpability would be exactly the same.

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