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Payton: Keeping Jimmy Graham Will Require "Tough Decisions"

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  • Payton: Keeping Jimmy Graham Will Require "Tough Decisions"

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ugh-decisions/
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1

  • #2
    I wonder if Marques Colston could be a casualty here? They could try and force Nick Toon into his role.

    Will Smith is gone, Harper is gone, either Pierre Thomas or Mark Ingram will likely be gone. Lance Moore could be another one.
    Last edited by Flip Empty; 02-08-2014, 10:02 PM.

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    • #3
      "The Saints will want to have the ability to tag him for a $6.8 million tender offer, which is the tight end amount, while Graham will want to be tendered at $11.6 million, the wide receiver amount."

      Since when did players have any voice or power against the franchise tag, which was made specifically to give the team complete leverage over one player in terms of negotiation rights? It should not matter what Graham wants at all.

      If the Saints want to tag him as a TE, which is his designated position and the no-brainer choice, then that should be final no matter what Graham wants, argue, or cry about.

      It wouldn't make sense. If TEs can just pick the more $$$ WR franchise tag, then there would no point of TE franchise tags in the current market.

      Next thing you know, Brandon Myers would be wanting a WR tag in the future since he's only useful for catching passes. lol
      Last edited by BigBlueAllDay; 02-08-2014, 10:15 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
        I wonder if Marques Colston could be a casualty here? They could try and force Nick Toon into his role.

        Will Smith is gone, Harper is gone, either Pierre Thomas or Mark Ingram will likely be gone. Lance Moore could be another one.
        I would like Ingram.. Not a lot of wear and tear.. He needs a fresh start

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
          Since when did players have any voice or power against the franchise tag, which was made specifically to give the team complete leverage over one player in terms of negotiation rights? It should not matter what Graham wants at all.

          If the Saints want to tag him as a TE, which is his designated position, then that should be final no matter what Graham wants, argue, or cry about.

          It wouldn't make sense. If TEs can just pick the more $$$ WR franchise tag, then there would no point of TE franchise tags in the current market.

          Next thing you know, Brandon Myers would be wanting a WR tag in the future since he's only useful for catching passes. lol
          Well, how do you differentiate Graham from a receiver? He lines up like one, he runs like one, and he produces like one. Why shouldn't he get paid like one?

          Myers wouldn't try it because he isn't capable of cracking 1000 yards and double digit scores per year.
          Last edited by Flip Empty; 02-08-2014, 10:18 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
            Well, how do you differentiate Graham from a receiver? He lines up like one, he runs like one, and he produces like one.

            Myers wouldn't try it because he isn't capable of cracking 1000 yards and double digit scores per year.
            Myers was a bad example even though that was the best the Giants could offer at TE in 2013. A lot of top pass catching TEs in the league do what Jimmy does. Gronk still holds the single season TE receiving yards record over him. Would they be WRs then? I think the Saints have the final say. Too bad for Jimmy Graham.
            Last edited by BigBlueAllDay; 02-09-2014, 10:15 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
              Myers was a bad example even that that was the best the Giants could offer at TE in 2013. A lot of top pass catching TEs in the league do what Jimmy does. Would they be WRs then? I think the Saints have the final say. Too bad for Jimmy Graham.
              Well, Jared Cook tried to swing this last year... only problem is that he kind of sucks and the Titans wound up shipping him out.

              I just find it interesting because Graham outperforms many receivers, yet he can't earn as much money as them. 1200 yards and 16 touchdowns would be deemed an elite season for any wide receiver.

              14th in receiving yards
              1st in touchdowns

              According to PFF, Graham lined up at TE on only 33% of his snaps last season. A miniscule amount, but I suppose the simple fact that he lines up as one at all is what defines him.


              Yes, it's most certainly the Saints' call. Graham can campaign, but he has no say over what his team decides to do. The only thing he could do is refuse the contract and hold out.
              Last edited by Flip Empty; 02-08-2014, 10:47 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
                Well, Jared Cook tried to swing this last year... only problem is that he kind of sucks and the Titans wound up shipping him out.

                I just find it interesting because Graham outperforms many receivers, yet he can't earn as much money as them. 1200 yards and 16 touchdowns would be deemed an elite season for any wide receiver.

                14th in receiving yards
                1st in touchdowns

                According to PFF, Graham lined up at TE on only 33% of his snaps last season. A miniscule amount, but I suppose that the simple fact that he lines up as one at all is what defines him. Quite strange, really.
                Not to provide another bad example, but if Antrel Rolle plays nickel corner for a 66% of the snaps very well due to a depleted CB depth and 33% at safety, should he be entitled to the CB franchise tag of around $10 mil as suppose to the safety tag around $7 mil?

                It's just a can of worms waiting to open if players are allowed to cross positions just for the higher franchise tag.
                Last edited by BigBlueAllDay; 02-08-2014, 11:13 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
                  Not to provide another bad example, but if Antrel Rolle plays nickel corner for a 66% of the snaps very well due to a depleted CB depth and 33% at safety, should he be entitled to the CB franchise tag of around $10 mil as suppose to the safety tag around $7 mil?

                  It's just a can of worms waiting to open if players are allowed to cross positions just for the higher franchise tag.
                  I think that's a good point, actually. It could certainly be a valid argument for a player to make.

                  While I do agree that players shouldn't be attempting to force their way into a new pay grade, I think the system can be unfair in certain cases.
                  Last edited by Flip Empty; 02-09-2014, 02:12 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
                    I wonder if Marques Colston could be a casualty here? They could try and force Nick Toon into his role.

                    Will Smith is gone, Harper is gone, either Pierre Thomas or Mark Ingram will likely be gone. Lance Moore could be another one.
                    Toon is a major sleeper. I love his size.
                    My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                    • #11
                      I wonder if Brees will offer to rework his contract to free up some cash?

                      And I can understand Graham being upset about being franchised as a TE when they tend to use him a lot as a WR. But unless he wants to change his official designation from TE to WR he's at the team's mercy, which isn't completely fair but it is what it is.
                      One of these teams is not like the others

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kingcap88 View Post
                        I wonder if Brees will offer to rework his contract to free up some cash?
                        I doubt it, he (well, his agent) pushed so hard to land it. A restructure is basically out of the question since his contract is already extremely back-loaded.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Flip Empty View Post
                          I doubt it, he (well, his agent) pushed so hard to land it. A restructure is basically out of the question since his contract is already extremely back-loaded.
                          Yeah, I doubt he'll offer to rework it, too.
                          One of these teams is not like the others

                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...h-roman-harper

                            "Wednesday marked the end of an era for the New Orleans Saints defense as they announced they are parting ways with four team veterans and members of their 2009 Super Bowl championship team: defensive end Will Smith, linebacker Jonathan Vilma, safety Roman Harper and cornerback Jabari Greer."


                            "These were not easy decisions to make," Saints general manager Mickey Loomis said in a statement. "Since we acquired them, Jabari, Roman, Will and Jonathan have all been excellent players on the field for us. Each of them were integral parts in turning this program around and winning a Super Bowl. They were a great example to our players as team leaders in the locker room as well. ...

                            "However ... these difficult moves allow us to position our team under the salary cap to move forward for 2014."

                            These moves should put the Saints under the salary cap for now. They were projected to be around $13-15 million over the cap, but they'll need even more space to re-sign or use the franchise tag on free-agent tight end Jimmy Graham and clear space for other free-agent signings."

                            In short, it was a thank you for the 2009 Superbowl, now here's a head start on finding another team/job because we're in cap trouble and would rather keep high-paid players on our famed offense...from the Saints.
                            Last edited by BigBlueAllDay; 02-12-2014, 10:21 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BigBlueAllDay View Post
                              Not to provide another bad example, but if Antrel Rolle plays nickel corner for a 66% of the snaps very well due to a depleted CB depth and 33% at safety, should he be entitled to the CB franchise tag of around $10 mil as suppose to the safety tag around $7 mil?

                              It's just a can of worms waiting to open if players are allowed to cross positions just for the higher franchise tag.
                              That is an excellent point.
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