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What a sad day for a true Knicks fan. THE BALLHOG RETURNS

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BParcells777 View Post
    Endless losing straight ahead

    My god....save us. :-(
    Endless Losing ? No. If u said endless mediocrity , you might be on to something.. Getting 7 or 8 seeds and getting bounced in the first round is the worst place to be.

    I was looking at advanced stats and it ranked Carmelo as the 26th best player in the NBA and the 9th best SF as far as win share goes.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
      Endless Losing ? No. If u said endless mediocrity , you might be on to something.. Getting 7 or 8 seeds and getting bounced in the first round is the worst place to be.

      I was looking at advanced stats and it ranked Carmelo as the 26th best player in the NBA and the 9th best SF as far as win share goes.
      This is precisely why Denver got much better when he left....the rest of the team stops moving when he has the ball as they believe cutting for a scoring pass
      Is akin to being struck by lightning

      Hes horrible

      Both red aurbach and red holzman not to mention pop would never have him on their teams

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
        Endless Losing ? No. If u said endless mediocrity , you might be on to something.. Getting 7 or 8 seeds and getting bounced in the first round is the worst place to be.

        I was looking at advanced stats and it ranked Carmelo as the 26th best player in the NBA and the 9th best SF as far as win share goes.
        what stats are you looking at? lol

        rated 9th in PER last season (3rd SF behind durant and lebron)

        4th in value added and estimated wins added (again 3rd SF behind durant and lebron)

        what "advanced stats" are you looking at?

        i already know from the past you don't like melo and have said before he's not the 3rd best SF or top 10 in the league despite virtually all the experts and analysts having him as just that.

        TANKING GUARANTEES NOTHING.

        it's amazing how foolish so many fans are. they think all you have to do is suck for a few years and BOOM you're a contender. unfortunately it almost NEVER works like that. far more likely is you tank for a few years, end up drafting/aquiring some nice players (NONE of which are on the level of a melo) and then end up in the SAME place or worse that the knicks are now.

        NO FREE AGENTS are coming to new york without a star already on the team like melo. you really think durant or a star caliber player would consider coming to play the prime of their career with the only inciting reason being phil jackson? hardaway jr and shump? are you out of your minds?


        the sad thing is as fans you would rather take that 5% chance (most likely less) to win a championship after stinking for years... when in reality our chances are easily far greater with melo and another max free agent next year (and adding more pieces in 2016)

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
          what stats are you looking at? lol

          rated 9th in PER last season (3rd SF behind durant and lebron)

          4th in value added and estimated wins added (again 3rd SF behind durant and lebron)

          what "advanced stats" are you looking at?

          i already know from the past you don't like melo and have said before he's not the 3rd best SF or top 10 in the league despite virtually all the experts and analysts having him as just that.

          TANKING GUARANTEES NOTHING.

          it's amazing how foolish so many fans are. they think all you have to do is suck for a few years and BOOM you're a contender. unfortunately it almost NEVER works like that. far more likely is you tank for a few years, end up drafting/aquiring some nice players (NONE of which are on the level of a melo) and then end up in the SAME place or worse that the knicks are now.

          NO FREE AGENTS are coming to new york without a star already on the team like melo. you really think durant or a star caliber player would consider coming to play the prime of their career with the only inciting reason being phil jackson? hardaway jr and shump? are you out of your minds?


          the sad thing is as fans you would rather take that 5% chance (most likely less) to win a championship after stinking for years... when in reality our chances are easily far greater with melo and another max free agent next year (and adding more pieces in 2016)
          I wanted to keep Melo just not at this price. The guy is so disingenuous the talk about loving NY , winning titles , Carmleo loves money that is all. Thats fine I just dont want to hear complaining about the roster down from him down the line



          NAME TM POS GP MIN WP48 WP PoP48 PTS REB AST
          Durant, Kevin OKC SF 81 3122 .308 20.1 6.5 39.9 9.2 6.8
          James, LeBron MIA SF 77 2902 .327 19.7 7.1 34.6 8.8 8.1
          Batum, Nicolas POR SF 82 2956 .241 14.9 4.4 17.4 9.9 6.8
          Ariza, Trevor WAS SF 77 2723 .234 13.3 4.2 19.5 8.4 3.4
          Leonard, Kawhi SAS SF 66 1923 .294 11.8 6.1 21.1 10.3 3.3
          George, Paul IND SF 80 2898 .177 10.7 2.4 28.8 9.0 4.7
          Tucker, P.J. PHO SF 81 2490 .200 10.4 3.1 14.7 10.2 2.7
          Iguodala, Andre GSW SF 63 2040 .241 10.2 4.4 13.8 6.9 6.2
          Anthony, Carmelo NYK SF 77 2982 .161 10.0 1.9 34.0 10.0 3.9





          NAME TM POS GP MIN WP48 WP PoP48 PTS REB AST
          Durant, Kevin OKC SF 81 3122 .308 20.1 6.5 39.9 9.2 6.8
          James, LeBron MIA SF 77 2902 .327 19.7 7.1 34.6 8.8 8.1
          Jordan, DeAndre LAC C 82 2870 .323 19.3 7.0 14.3 18.6 1.2
          Drummond, Andre DET C 81 2619 .331 18.1 7.2 20.1 19.6 0.6
          Love, Kevin MIN PF 77 2797 .285 16.6 5.8 34.5 16.5 5.9
          Curry, Stephen GSW PG 78 2846 .263 15.6 5.1 31.6 5.6 11.2
          Paul, Chris LAC PG 62 2171 .335 15.2 7.3 26.2 5.9 14.7
          Noah, Joakim CHI C 80 2820 .254 14.9 4.8 17.1 15.3 7.3
          Batum, Nicolas POR SF 82 2956 .241 14.9 4.4 17.4 9.9 6.8
          Harden, James HOU SG 73 2777 .236 13.6 4.2 32.0 5.9 7.7
          Ariza, Trevor WAS SF 77 2723 .234 13.3 4.2 19.5 8.4 3.4
          Lowry, Kyle TOR PG 79 2862 .220 13.1 3.8 23.8 6.2 9.8
          Dragic, Goran PHO PG 76 2668 .224 12.4 3.9 27.7 4.4 8.0
          Stephenson, Lance IND SG 78 2752 .215 12.3 3.6 18.8 9.7 6.3
          Lopez, Robin POR C 82 2603 .220 11.9 3.8 16.7 12.9 1.3
          Leonard, Kawhi SAS SF 66 1923 .294 11.8 6.1 21.1 10.3 3.3
          Davis, Anthony NOR PF 67 2358 .238 11.7 4.3 28.4 13.7 2.1
          Ibaka, Serge OKC PF 81 2666 .200 11.1 3.2 22.1 12.8 1.5
          Rubio, Ricky MIN PG 82 2638 .202 11.1 3.2 14.2 6.2 12.8
          Bogut, Andrew GSW C 67 1769 .293 10.8 6.0 13.3 18.2 3.0
          George, Paul IND SF 80 2898 .177 10.7 2.4 28.8 9.0 4.7
          Tucker, P.J. PHO SF 81 2490 .200 10.4 3.1 14.7 10.2 2.7
          Iguodala, Andre GSW SF 63 2040 .241 10.2 4.4 13.8 6.9 6.2
          Griffin, Blake LAC PF 80 2863 .169 10.1 2.2 32.4 12.7 5.2
          Korver, Kyle ATL SG 71 2408 .200 10.1 3.2 16.9 5.6 4.1
          Anthony, Carmelo NYK SF 77 2982 .161 10.0 1.9 34.0 10.0 3.9
          Butler, Jimmy CHI SG 67 2591 .180 9.7 2.5 16.3 6.1 3.2
          Howard, Dwight HOU C 71 2396 .190 9.5 2.8 26.0 17.3 2.6
          Faried, Kenneth DEN PF 80 2178 .208 9.4 3.4 24.2 15.1 2.1
          Hill, George IND PG 76 2434 .184 9.3 2.6 15.4 5.6 5.2
          Last edited by Redeyejedi; 07-14-2014, 10:35 AM.

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          • #20
            Not sure what those stats even mean. But the reality is Melo is a top 10 player is this league and without doubt the 3rd best sf

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
              Not sure what those stats even mean. But the reality is Melo is a top 10 player is this league and without doubt the 3rd best sf
              top 10? top 15 maybe. we have different ratings on what best is . Volume scorers with poor defense arent top 10 players to me. He was rated 18th overall in +- last year
              Last edited by Redeyejedi; 07-14-2014, 03:12 PM.

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              • #22
                He's not a poor defender, average at worst. And he's arguably the best scorer in the league. Then you take a look at the trash he's been surrounded with and it's amazing the kind of production he has put up.

                His contact is fair. In a couple years Durant and LeBron will be getting contacts around 30 mil per year once the cap goes up. There are very few players with his talent and ability in the league. You can't look at advanced stats that say this player or that player is more efficient or effective when they are the third option on the team and are not the focus of the defense. Also comparing him to a Durant or LeBron is unfair because Melo doesn't have a Westbrook or an ibaka. He doesn't have a bosh or wade.

                Melo would average 5+ assists if he wasn't surrounded by players incapable of making wide open jump shots. I think Melo will like playing with calderon because when Melo gets doubled in the post calderon will make them pay unlike Felton.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Plus minus is not a good stat to rate or rank players. You can't use per 48 stats from 3rd options and say they're better than Melo. There is a reason these guys are third options. If they took over the responsibility that a player like Melo has their efficiency would plummet as well as other areas of their games suffering. It's common sense.
                  Last edited by kNicksGiants; 07-14-2014, 05:54 PM.

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                  • #24
                    You know how I can tell you're not a "true" Knicks fan?


                    Because a "true" Knicks fan would never have to say "I'm a true Knicks fan."
                    Mood: WOOF!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Batum, Nicolas POR SF 82 2956 .241 14.9 4.4 17.4 9.9 6.8
                      Ariza, Trevor WAS SF 77 2723 .234 13.3 4.2 19.5 8.4 3.4
                      Leonard, Kawhi SAS SF 66 1923 .294 11.8 6.1 21.1 10.3 3.3
                      George, Paul IND SF 80 2898 .177 10.7 2.4 28.8 9.0 4.7
                      Tucker, P.J. PHO SF 81 2490 .200 10.4 3.1 14.7 10.2 2.7
                      Iguodala, Andre GSW SF 63 2040 .241 10.2 4.4 13.8 6.9 6.2
                      these are the supposed small forwards that are better than Melo? (i left out Bron and Durant) Paul George is the only guy on the list that is a first option and the only guy you could make a real argument for being better than Melo. Leonard has the potential to be at that level, but he's not there yet. The others speak for themselves. Ariza? Tucker? Batum? Iggy? Not a coach or gm in the league would agree they are better than Melo. Even most Melo haters wouldn't be delusional enough to believe that.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
                        He's not a poor defender, average at worst. And he's arguably the best scorer in the league. Then you take a look at the trash he's been surrounded with and it's amazing the kind of production he has put up.

                        His contact is fair. In a couple years Durant and LeBron will be getting contacts around 30 mil per year once the cap goes up. There are very few players with his talent and ability in the league. You can't look at advanced stats that say this player or that player is more efficient or effective when they are the third option on the team and are not the focus of the defense. Also comparing him to a Durant or LeBron is unfair because Melo doesn't have a Westbrook or an ibaka. He doesn't have a bosh or wade.

                        Melo would average 5+ assists if he wasn't surrounded by players incapable of making wide open jump shots. I think Melo will like playing with calderon because when Melo gets doubled in the post calderon will make them pay unlike Felton.
                        He has had excuses his whole career , if he wanted better players on the team he should of sacrificed some cash or went to chicago but thats secondary to Melo.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          He is a BUM......as Ralph Kramden would say LOL

                          Jackson must hav lost his mind.......sign him, trade him......move on

                          We need to build through the draft and astute moves like San Antonio and The Pacers make.........We had Donnie Walsh and Little man Dolan- Papa's boy
                          forced him out.........to personally hire the Team Concept TERMINATOR- SMELLO!!!!

                          Way to go Dolan..... Donne Walsh has more Basketball knowledge in one of his nose hairs than little boy Dolan has in his whole body

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BParcells777 View Post
                            He is a BUM......as Ralph Kramden would say LOL

                            Jackson must hav lost his mind.......sign him, trade him......move on

                            We need to build through the draft and astute moves like San Antonio and The Pacers make.........We had Donnie Walsh and Little man Dolan- Papa's boy
                            forced him out.........to personally hire the Team Concept TERMINATOR- SMELLO!!!!

                            Way to go Dolan..... Donne Walsh has more Basketball knowledge in one of his nose hairs than little boy Dolan has in his whole body
                            You're a bum. How can you not like what Phil Jackson has done so far with the Knicks? Then again, you're not even a fan to begin. You're just a measly little troll that craves attention.
                            sigpic

                            I feel the need......THE NEED FOR SPEED!!!!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I cannot stand Smello's brand of Basketball I'm sorry

                              I am old enough to have watched Frazier, DeBusherre, and Willis Reed

                              I know what a real Knick Basketball team looks like and this is the opposite........you cannot thrive if you have a self centered "star" on your team.....the next pass to a cutter he throws will be his 1st

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by kNicksGiants View Post
                                these are the supposed small forwards that are better than Melo? (i left out Bron and Durant) Paul George is the only guy on the list that is a first option and the only guy you could make a real argument for being better than Melo. Leonard has the potential to be at that level, but he's not there yet. The others speak for themselves. Ariza? Tucker? Batum? Iggy? Not a coach or gm in the league would agree they are better than Melo. Even most Melo haters wouldn't be delusional enough to believe that.
                                Not individually better but +- what he is worth to his team per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. There is no more a perfect example in this than Amare Stoudamire Melos teammate. Amare Stoudamire is a very productive offensive player however when he is on the court the Knicks are a worse team defensively if he gives up more points than he scores, is he worth having. My problem with Melo isnt that he is a great individual player , Melo is a fabulous 1 on 1 player but he stagnates an offense as a whole . Melo's numbers while gaudy and show a high level of individual talent dont help a team win basketball games at the rate of pay his salary suggests. Melo refuses to play a brand of basketball that maximizes his teammates. You can say his teammates aren't good enough but thats just a cop out. He sabotaged Dantonis system refusing to alter his game even though it maximized his efficiency. He has done this his whole career , Melo isnt happy until he is bouncing the ball by himself with no 1 moving for 10 seconds at the top of the key . The Knicks have a bunch of young players this season that need to get on the court if the Knicks are going to be able to build a team that can legitimately compete for a championship by the middle of Melos deal. Is Melo going to accept the need to grow the surrounding talent or is he going to demand the Knicks sign Kmart and play JR Smith because they will cave to his brand of basketball. If Melo wants to get paid 35% of the cap the Knicks have to get creative with the roster and the only way to do that is with cheap young players overplaying their salary. Will he accept growing pains and trust the offensive system or is he going to do what he has done everywhere else and say im going to do this alone. As for the players above I would take Paul George , Leonard over Melo right now in a heartbeat. They are younger and cost far less ,id take them and their 20 million + in cap space.
                                This isnt the old salary cap where you can spend into oblivion with exceptions . If that was the case I could care less how much Melo gets.
                                I think we finally have a guy in Phil Jackson that understands that keeping that flexibility to make sign and trades and be in a position to grab a dumped player is beneficial. This Knick team isnt competing right away so why bother wasting money on players killing cap flexibility and stagnating young player growth for marginal improvement. If you can add Pau for 3.2 million great if you can't move on, be patient and a deal will present itself. Trade Shumpert for a first if the situation presents itself. He probably wont be resigned and doesnt fit the triangle all that well so why not get something. I know you think late draft picks are worthless but without having low contracts on the books to offset Melo's and Love or MGasol or whoever else comes here the Knicks will never build a roster that can legitimately compete.

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