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Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

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  • #16
    Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

    [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="Shockeyitus"]

    [quote user="slipknottin"]I dont understand how this thread is logical. Why would picking at 64 mean they have to reach?[/quote]




    Guys that are projected to be third round picks that the Giants really like may not be around until pick #96. Therefore, they may consider grabbing someone with their 64th overall selection. Capeesh?

    [/quote]

    Thats not how it works. Guys arent rated just round 1, round 2 , round 3, etc. They are rated in a much more finite manner than that.




    [/quote]

    I don't think the guy is at all saying that is the way players are rated.

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    • #17
      Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

      keep an eye on wr- jordan white to be our new flanker in the middle rounds.
      i also think slb prospects like nigel bradham or keenan robinson are better fits for our defense than the lb's listed.

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      • #18
        Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

        [quote user="critters"]No. If a guy is projected as a 2nd rounder and you get him with the first pick in the 2nd round you aren't reaching. If a guy is projected to be a mid to late 3rd rounder and you pick last... you would have to take him in the 2nd round to get him. Point is when you pick last and say you think we should get player A in the 2nd round... people will say, he's a 3rd round guy. Well, for us to get him, we have to make him a 2nd round guy. Hence, reaching.
        [/quote]

        You make absolutely no sense what so ever.

        What if a guy is projected as a mid to late 2nd rounder, and you are picking 1st overall (33rd pick)? Wouldnt you be reaching to select him there too?

        Its the same for every team at every draft pick.

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        • #19
          Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

          [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="critters"]No. If a guy is projected as a 2nd rounder and you get him with the first pick in the 2nd round you aren't reaching. If a guy is projected to be a mid to late 3rd rounder and you pick last... you would have to take him in the 2nd round to get him. Point is when you pick last and say you think we should get player A in the 2nd round... people will say, he's a 3rd round guy. Well, for us to get him, we have to make him a 2nd round guy. Hence, reaching.
          [/quote]

          You make absolutely no sense what so ever.

          What if a guy is projected as a mid to late 2nd rounder, and you are picking 1st overall (33rd pick)? Wouldnt you be reaching to select him there too?

          Its the same for every team at every draft pick.[/quote]

          I'm not saying we'll be doing anything. I'm trying to explain to you what the term reaching means. I guess Mel Kiper also makes no sense whatsoever, because he talks about it all the time. I seriously can't believe you have never heard the term before. Perhaps my scenario wasn't the best example, just trying to give you a quick idea. It's not something teams do all the time. It's something teams will be accused of doing with certain picks, and like I said, it's mostly public perception. If a guy is viewed as a late 3rd round pick and a team picks him much earlier, it wil be deemed "reaching". And yes, any team at any pick can do it. If I mention us having a late pick it's because in mock drafts someone will say, that guy isn't a 3rd round round guy, he's a late 4th round guy (in case it's not obvious, I'm not saying how the Giants organization views it, I'm talking fans)... someone defending their mock will say we may have to reach here in order to get the guy we want. Everyone making mocks takes into consideration draft value and they're fun to deabate. That's why no one is saying we should take Casey Hayward with our first pick. He's not viewed as a first round value. Sorry if I'm not making this any easier to understand. I guess just watch drafts and wait for McShay and Kiper to go off about a team reaching with their pick because their pick doesn't match up with the value they put on the player.

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          • #20
            Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

            What slipknottin is probably trying to say is this.

            what is a late 3rd round pick to mel kiper or other know draft analyst is probably not the same value to reese and scouting staff.

            so while you might feel that player is a reach at 64 you have no clue on the inner working of how the giants organization ranks / rates and evaluates their draftees, so its mute to argue what a reach or not a reach cause we don't know.

            the year where all those QB's came off the board early was due in part to NEED over BPA, so many teams needed a starting QB, so to that team it wasn't a reach its a reach to mel kiper cause he...HE rated ponder as a late 1st or second round talent, but the vikings knew that also Bengals / 49ers need QB's as well, So they drafted to need and by no means to them probably considered it a reach.

            pure speculation as i don't know whats going on in these front offices but, like i said neither do you or mel keiper his ranking system is much more different and probably less complex than an NFL FO.

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            • #21
              Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

              really its simple.

              Where you are picking has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.

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              • #22
                Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                [quote user="slipknottin"]really its simple.

                Where you are picking has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.[/quote]
                You are blowing their mind. I don't think they're going to get it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                  [quote user="Seducer"][quote user="slipknottin"]really its simple.

                  Where you are picking has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.[/quote]
                  You are blowing their mind. I don't think they're going to get it.[/quote]I know I certainly dont understand the logic of the OP, so I guess that evens things out.


                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                    [quote user="critters"][quote user="buddy33"]In the 1st 3 rounds after they won their last Super Bowl they picked KP, TT, and Manningham. Where they reaching then?[/quote]

                    No. And either way, it's hard to say when you don't know how the Giants rank players. We are known for going best available anyway.

                    [/quote]

                    Right, so going BPA is the exact opposite of reaching.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                      I get what Slip is saying. Say that there's this guy, Mark Smith, who is projected to go in the mid to late 2nd round.

                      It doesn't matter if you're picking first or last, if you want to get the guy you're probably going to have to reach (whether it's using the 32nd pick of the first round or the 1st pick of the second round). Yeah, sure the 1st pick of the second round is technically a second round pick, but it's just as much of a reach as using the 32nd pick of the 1st round.

                      If the Giants are picking 1st they probably won't be able to get someone expected to go in the 16 through 32 picks (without trading/reaching). If the Giants are picking 16th they probably won't be able to get someone expected to go 1-15 in the second round. If the Giants go 28th they probably won't be able to get a guy expected to go 12-27 in the second round. For every pick there's a set of draft picks, where if you feel that Player A is going to go, you probably won't be able to get Player A unless you trade or reach.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                        I like Bobby Massie in the 3rd, he could be a pretty solid RT, maybe even right away.
                        My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                          Dude BPA whenever we pick, end of story.......this makes no sense

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                            [quote user="Seducer"][quote user="slipknottin"]really its simple.

                            Where you are picking has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.[/quote]
                            You are blowing their mind. I don't think they're going to get it.[/quote]

                            Yes. My mind is blown because I said any team at any pick can be accused of reaching and this guy just informed me that where you pick has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.

                            And yes, I've already pointed out that reaching is based on public perception because no one knows how organizations grade players or where other teams grade the player in question. Saying back to me exactly what I have stated is not going to blow my mind.

                            Perhaps this is a foreign concept to some on here because the Giants are known for going BPA. That's why even though we wanted Dillard in the 3rd we didn't take him cause we thought there was a chance he'd still be available in the 4th. We know we graded him very highly and used draft value to decide when to get him. We didn't reach. GO GIANTS.

                            p.s. you guys should go into the mock draft threads or Chandler Jones thread and tell them that they don't know what they're talking about.. cause I see a lot of people using the term "reaching".

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                              Reaching or stealing is pretty subjective. Mel Kiper might have a guy rated around 90 overall, but Reese and the Giants scouting department might have the same guy rated as 35 over-all on their big board.

                              So, come pick 64, it would look like a big reach going by Kiper's board, but it would be a tremendous value going by JR's board.

                              Look at JPP, for example. He was 6 overall on the Giants' board, but considerably lower than that on a lot of other boards. Given that and the Giants' perceived depth at that position, it looked like a BAD pick. How's it look now? I don't think there are 5 guys from that draft who have played better.

                              Jaquain Williams is another example. NOBODY knew who he was (IIRC, the Bears are the only other team that even LOOKED at him), and that pick was pretty much universally criticized... but looking back, he played as well as any rookie LB not named Von Miller, regardless of draft position. I'd say that's tremendous value.

                              My point being, the Giants' scouting department sets its big board, and JR sticks to that, and picks the highest rated player remaining. They don't get enamored by names or positions the same way fans do. The genius in JR's drafting is in the scouting department's evaluation and setting up their big board, and taking the best talent available. They let other teams reach and let the draft come to them.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                                [quote user="Raptor22"]Reaching or stealing is pretty subjective. Mel Kiper might have a guy rated around 90 overall, but Reese and the Giants scouting department might have the same guy rated as 35 over-all on their big board.

                                So, come pick 64, it would look like a big reach going by Kiper's board, but it would be a tremendous value going by JR's board.

                                Look at JPP, for example. He was 6 overall on the Giants' board, but considerably lower than that on a lot of other boards. Given that and the Giants' perceived depth at that position, it looked like a BAD pick. How's it look now? I don't think there are 5 guys from that draft who have played better.

                                Jaquain Williams is another example. NOBODY knew who he was (IIRC, the Bears are the only other team that even LOOKED at him), and that pick was pretty much universally criticized... but looking back, he played as well as any rookie LB not named Von Miller, regardless of draft position. I'd say that's tremendous value.

                                My point being, the Giants' scouting department sets its big board, and JR sticks to that, and picks the highest rated player remaining. They don't get enamored by names or positions the same way fans do. The genius in JR's drafting is in the scouting department's evaluation and setting up their big board, and taking the best talent available. They let other teams reach and let the draft come to them.
                                [/quote]

                                This is 100% correct. I think the Giants are one of the one best teams when it comes to establishing draft value and getting the best picks.

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