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Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

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  • #31
    Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

    [quote user="critters"][quote user="Raptor22"]Reaching or stealing is pretty subjective. Mel Kiper might have a guy rated around 90 overall, but Reese and the Giants scouting department might have the same guy rated as 35 over-all on their big board.

    So, come pick 64, it would look like a big reach going by Kiper's board, but it would be a tremendous value going by JR's board.

    Look at JPP, for example. He was 6 overall on the Giants' board, but considerably lower than that on a lot of other boards. Given that and the Giants' perceived depth at that position, it looked like a BAD pick. How's it look now? I don't think there are 5 guys from that draft who have played better.

    Jaquain Williams is another example. NOBODY knew who he was (IIRC, the Bears are the only other team that even LOOKED at him), and that pick was pretty much universally criticized... but looking back, he played as well as any rookie LB not named Von Miller, regardless of draft position. I'd say that's tremendous value.

    My point being, the Giants' scouting department sets its big board, and JR sticks to that, and picks the highest rated player remaining. They don't get enamored by names or positions the same way fans do. The genius in JR's drafting is in the scouting department's evaluation and setting up their big board, and taking the best talent available. They let other teams reach and let the draft come to them.
    [/quote]

    This is 100% correct. I think the Giants are one of the one best teams when it comes to establishing draft value and getting the best picks.

    [/quote]

    Ok, so then why say they would be reaching? If you believe that is how they draft then they are not reaching. If Reese picks a guy it's because that is who he wants. Don't look at all the "experts" boards and what they say during the draft. Reese has 2 rings doing what he does. If he picks a guy, it is not reaching.

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    • #32
      Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

      It was his opinion. Perhaps he thinks we have to be a little more specific with our picks because of position needs (like TE for example). In which case we wouldn't be able to wait and see who is best available and may have to bypass the draft board value to get players at certain positions. Take the Dillard situation I was referring to. We didn't take him in the 3rd like we wanted and went value instead. If we were really desperate for a MLB, maybe we would have taken him in the 3rd round instead of gambling that he would still be there in the 4th... which in hindsight we see wouldn't have been the best way to do it.

      I personally don't think we will change our methods. I think we'll go BPA according to our boards and use free agency to fill any glaring holes.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

        [quote user="critters"][quote user="Seducer"][quote user="slipknottin"]really its simple.

        Where you are picking has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.[/quote]
        You are blowing their mind. I don't think they're going to get it.[/quote]

        Yes. My mind is blown because I said any team at any pick can be accused of reaching and this guy just informed me that where you pick has nothing to do with whether you reach for players or not.

        And yes, I've already pointed out that reaching is based on public perception because no one knows how organizations grade players or where other teams grade the player in question. Saying back to me exactly what I have stated is not going to blow my mind.

        Perhaps this is a foreign concept to some on here because the Giants are known for going BPA. That's why even though we wanted Dillard in the 3rd we didn't take him cause we thought there was a chance he'd still be available in the 4th. We know we graded him very highly and used draft value to decide when to get him. We didn't reach. GO GIANTS.

        p.s. you guys should go into the mock draft threads or Chandler Jones thread and tell them that they don't know what they're talking about.. cause I see a lot of people using the term "reaching".
        [/quote]

        Yes, thank you for spelling this out. Jacquain Williams is the perfect example--no one had heard of him, so we waited until late in the draft to take him.

        As for having the last pick: if anything, I'd think it's probably a little tougher to predict specific scenarios or target specific guys--you have to wait and see what 31 other teams do with their first round picks--but other than that, it seems like any other pick. If there's a guy you want that you might not get, trade up. If there's no one you feel merits the slotted pick, trade out. And apart from that, just stick to the board, no?


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        • #34
          Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4



          [quote user="gmen0820"]I like Bobby Massie in the 3rd, he could be a pretty solid RT, maybe even right away.[/quote] I like Bobbie Massie in the 2nd.. Hes a guy who was ranked as a 1st rder by some coming into this season, and Ole Miss was pretty good at not allowing sacks and rushing offfense and thats about it.. Bobbie Massie actually reminds me some of a young Kareem Mckenzie, and James Brewer could use himself some competiton, as our giants could also use the depth...







          I woulden't be shocked to see the giants try and trade up for Mike Adams to be honest.. I was thinking about who the giants would possibly trade up for, and i believe Mike Adams would be a guy they'd go 10picks up or so to get... Mike Adams is defeinetly a player Reese is gonna covet, i think...

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

            [quote user="Shockeyitus"]

            With the last pick in each round, the Giants will be forced to reach for a few players. Dont be surpirsed if they pull the trigger on guys like this in round two (#64)




            RB - Victor Ballard, Bernard Pierce




            WR - Dwight Jones, Marvin McNutt




            TE - Michael Egnew, Ladarius Green




            O-Line - Bobby Massie, Nate Potter, Brandon Washington, Senio Kelemete




            D-Line - Mike Martin, Kendell Reyes




            LB - Bruce Irvin, Audi Cole, Bobby Wagner




            CB/S - Leonard Johson, Ryan Steed, Jayron Hosley, Aaron Henry, Trumaine Johnson.

            [/quote]

            I agree that if we choose any of those players in the second round we'd be reaching.

            I doubt we pick any of those players in the second.

            (of course your title says Rds 2-4 so lol)
            I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

              [quote user="deekay7685"]keep an eye on wr- jordan white to be our new flanker in the middle rounds.
              i also think slb prospects like nigel bradham or keenan robinson are better fits for our defense than the lb's listed.[/quote]

              I like Keenan Robinson a lot for the Giants.

              4th or 5th round pick there.
              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="deekay7685"]keep an eye on wr- jordan white to be our new flanker in the middle rounds.
                i also think slb prospects like nigel bradham or keenan robinson are better fits for our defense than the lb's listed.[/quote]

                I like Keenan Robinson a lot for the Giants.

                4th or 5th round pick there.[/quote]

                I agree. Big guy with good speed. Could (and probably would) be a great player in our system.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                  NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then.

                  Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                    [quote user="buffyblue"]NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then.

                    Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.[/quote]

                    No, JPP was the opposite of a reach. He was a BPA pure and simple. BPA is, by definition, not a reach.


                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4



                      [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="buffyblue"]NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then. Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.[/quote]

                      No, JPP was the opposite of a reach. He was a BPA pure and simple. BPA is, by definition, not a reach.


                      [/quote]




                      Derrick Morgan was the top DE in that draft according to Kiper and McShay... Looks like the Giants made a fantastic decision.

                      "Hey, let me buy you a pack of gum. I'll show you how to chew it."

                      2014 Draft:
                      Round 1 - Eric Ebron, TE - North Carolina
                      Round 2 - David Yankey, OG - Stanford
                      Round 3 - Allen Robinson, WR - Penn State
                      Round 4 - Anthony Johnson, DT - LSU
                      Round 5 - Rashaad Reynolds, CB - Oregon State
                      Round 6 - Andrew Jackson, ILB - W. Kentucky
                      Round 7 - ** Traded for Jon Beason **

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                        [quote user="buffyblue"]NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then.

                        Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.[/quote]

                        It wasn't a reach ... JPP was a first round talent (slotted around 22 or so).

                        It wasn't even a surprising pick since he was on their radar from the get go.

                        McClain not being available was a bigger surprise.
                        I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                          [quote user="Shockeyitus"]

                          [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="buffyblue"]NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then. Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.[/quote]

                          No, JPP was the opposite of a reach. He was a BPA pure and simple. BPA is, by definition, not a reach.


                          [/quote]




                          Derrick Morgan was the top DE in that draft according to Kiper and McShay... Looks like the Giants made a fantastic decision.

                          [/quote]

                          It depended on what "expert" you went by. There were multiple reports that the Titans(who got Morgan) wanted JPP. Mayock also had JPP > Morgan.


                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                            [quote user="Shockeyitus"]

                            [quote user="BlueSanta"][quote user="buffyblue"]NY Giants may reach a little bit to fill a need or the best available that they feel wont be around if they dont grab him then. Remember JPP was a little bit of a reach. He was our third choice when we drafted him. We wanted Rolondo McLain but Oakland snagged him. Then we wanted CJ Spiller but Buffalo grabbed him. Lot of folks were surprised at the JPP pick. When they showed the back flips, I knew all was good.[/quote]

                            No, JPP was the opposite of a reach. He was a BPA pure and simple. BPA is, by definition, not a reach.


                            [/quote]




                            Derrick Morgan was the top DE in that draft according to Kiper and McShay... Looks like the Giants made a fantastic decision.

                            [/quote]

                            You are absolutely right. NY Giants made a great decision and one that was not very popular at the time.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                              [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="deekay7685"]keep an eye on wr- jordan white to be our new flanker in the middle rounds.
                              i also think slb prospects like nigel bradham or keenan robinson are better fits for our defense than the lb's listed.[/quote]

                              I like Keenan Robinson a lot for the Giants.

                              4th or 5th round pick there.[/quote]

                              I'd take him in the 2nd. But that's not a reach or anything. That's just my organizations perspective on things in comparison to how the masses feel.

                              I can't believe I read this whole thread. What a waste.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Giants will be reaching between rounds 2 - 4

                                [quote user="greenca190"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="deekay7685"]keep an eye on wr- jordan white to be our new flanker in the middle rounds.
                                i also think slb prospects like nigel bradham or keenan robinson are better fits for our defense than the lb's listed.[/quote]

                                I like Keenan Robinson a lot for the Giants.

                                4th or 5th round pick there.[/quote]

                                I'd take him in the 2nd. But that's not a reach or anything. That's just my organizations perspective on things in comparison to how the masses feel.

                                I can't believe I read this whole thread. What a waste.[/quote]

                                Taking a borderline 4th round pick in the second is the definition of reach.

                                If you really wanted him *and* you had intel that another team was going to jump that pick, then that's a different story ... but it would still be considered a reach by the masses.
                                I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                                Comment

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