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  • #31
    Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

    [quote user="Shockeystays08"]"he doesn't fit our system stuff is hogwash. [/quote]

    You do realize system fit is perhaps the most important part of bringing in new players, right?

    I dont think you force a DC to change the system he runs because you drafted a rookie, especially after he just won the SB running the system that is already in place. You find players that can do what you want and fit in.

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    • #32
      Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

      I agree somewhat but unlike college you can't go a recruit players that fit your system.
      1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.
      2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
      3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
      4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.

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      • #33
        Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

        [quote user="Blue_Buddha"]
        1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.[/quote]
        ok...
        2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
        What do you mean? of course you can.
        3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
        You absolutely can pass up talent if it doesnt fit your system. Because there are plenty of players who DO fit your system. If you are ever in a situation where there are good players, none of which fit your system, you trade that pick.
        4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.
        Good coaches can evaluate players and tell if they fit in with what they want to do before the players are brought in. Thats why coaches are involved in the draft process.

        Scouts go out and evaluate players based on player talent alone, then coaches come in and evaluate how players fit with what they want to run.

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        • #34
          Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG



          [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Blue_Buddha"] 1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.[/quote] ok...
          2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
          What do you mean? of course you can.
          3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
          You absolutely can pass up talent if it doesnt fit your system. Because there are plenty of players who DO fit your system. If you are ever in a situation where there are good players, none of which fit your system, you trade that pick.
          4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.
          Good coaches can evaluate players and tell if they fit in with what they want to do before the players are brought in. Thats why coaches are involved in the draft process. Scouts go out and evaluate players based on player talent alone, then coaches come in and evaluate how players fit with what they want to run.[/quote]







          I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no onefully figures itout. The fastest way way tothat is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can'tpass up talentthat will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL.




          When the Patriots drafted two TE recently when thier offense doesn't revolve around a TEs it wasa head scrathcher.They got two athletic guys but are they doing with two TEs? Guess what they found a way to use them effectively they evolved.They made up for thier running game and complimented they passing attack with those two TEs.




          Finding system guys isn't total hogwash, it works. I just belive teams shouldn't limit themselves to the coach's system.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

            I don't see him really playing MLB for our defense. He doesn't possess the sideline to sideline speed needed to cover a bigger area of the field in the pass game or to help out on runs at the other end.

            He would probably be a very good SOLB if he came here and with his pass rushing ability as well, he looks like the perfect replacement for Kiwi if we don't wish to resign him.

            But should we really use a 1st round selection on a SOLB?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

              [quote user="TheEnigma"]I don't see him really playing MLB for our defense. He doesn't possess the sideline to sideline speed needed to cover a bigger area of the field in the pass game or to help out on runs at the other end.

              He would probably be a very good SOLB if he came here and with his pass rushing ability as well, he looks like the perfect replacement for Kiwi if we don't wish to resign him.

              But should we really use a 1st round selection on a SOLB?[/quote]

              Yeah, I don't know about drafting what would essentially be a 2-down linebacker. Maybe they see something in him, I mean our run defense was terrible at times this past year and he can most definitely help out with that. Again, we do have bigger needs but I trust this coaching staff.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                [quote user="Blue_Buddha"]I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL. [/quote]

                I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

                Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

                Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

                So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

                With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                  agreed, he is better off playing in a 3-4 as an ILB. If we do indeed draft him, I would think the Giants would use him as a SAM to replace Kiwi next year like others have mentioned. It would also get rid of Sintim lol

                  to the guy that said "he doesn't fit our scheme is hogwash" go do a little more research and then comment. All teams in the NFL draft based on their scheme.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Blue_Buddha"]I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL. [/quote]

                    I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

                    Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

                    Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

                    So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

                    With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?[/quote]

                    Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

                    I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.
                    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                      [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Blue_Buddha"]I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL. [/quote]

                      I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

                      Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

                      Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

                      So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

                      With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?[/quote]

                      Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

                      I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.
                      Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                        IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position. At the least he'll be a 2 down type of guy. Im sorta tired of seeing us draft players and try to fit them into positions there not used too it seems the only player that has worked out for is Kiwi.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                          [quote user="B&RWarrior"][

                          Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

                          I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.[/quote]

                          Well Levonte David projects best as a weakside backer, in college he has the exact same role that Boley has for the giants.

                          But the Giants have three guys who are weakside backers, J Will, Boley, and Rivers. Where does David play? Do you draft him and start him then have the other couple guys just play STs? Its hard to incorporate 3 or 4 weakside backers into the defense, unless you are running a rotation like they do on the DL.

                          As for MLB, Kuechly is probably the best fit, but even he has somewhat of a narrow frame and may translate better to weakside. Its a tough position to fill.

                          And all we have for draft history at the position is Greg Jones, Philip Dillard, and Jon Goff.

                          And if you compare those three guys, for size, athleticism, ability, I think the only thing they all have in common is that they are all about 240 pounds.

                          Goff is 6'2 240, pretty athletic for his size, ran a 4.63 40, and had a 35" vert.

                          Dillard is 6'0 240, ran a 4.65 and had a 31" vert.

                          Then Jones, who is 5'11 240 ran a 4.75 and had a 31" vert.

                          If anything, they are losing height and athleticism as they go. Lol

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                            [quote user="NY4U2"]IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position.[/quote]

                            Its a different position no matter where he plays, he was a ILB in a 3-4 in college. Though he also played OLB, occasionally DE, etc.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                              I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Donta Hightower visits NYG

                                [quote user="Redeyejedi"]I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it[/quote]

                                He could potentially be an exact replacement for Kiwi. Provided they believe Hightower can play some DE, which I thought he showed some ability in college.

                                Is the value in Kiwi that of a first round pick though? A two down LB who can also play some DE and chip in maybe 4 or so sacks a year? Seems you could find that type of player later in the draft

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