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  • #16
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Ur completely correct.. I mock guys who are not DE's, but i'd put guys like Ez Ansah and Alex Okafor at the top of the wish list, just thinking about our 2 titles and that philosophy of rushing the passer.. We really do need to get a young stud opposite JPP, so we don't waste these prime yrs of his..

    The only way i'm gonna be happy not getting a DE in RD 1, is if theres incredible value or we plan on getting a Tank Carradine or someone like that in RD 2.. OSI is half of what he used to be as a pass rusher, and Tuck is spent as a pass rusher(only has moments now), and Tracy and Ojomo are probably only back end rotation guys...etc That said, we need another stout DE to pair with JPP, and sooner rather then later...

    I wouldent be against drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd, and possibly grabbing another upside DE in the 4th-6th range, to try and groom also...
    Personally I think we need 2 defensive ends. 1 every down guy like an Okafor Ansah then maybe a edge rusher for 3rd downs as well.

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    • #17
      Here's my thing! and I have been limited in my knowledege of the Pass rushers this upcoming draft, I plan on catching up in janurary when all the numbers are finalized and RED!!! chronological organizes the film on here
      Who is actually worth a bottom first grade? I would assume the top 5 are gone before 20. and thats
      1. Dion Jordan
      2. Bjoern Werner
      3. Sam Montgomery
      4. Alex Okafor
      5. Ezekiel Ansah
      So we were talking about Mingo and how limited his ceiling might be at the next level, you also have Carradine and Moore who to me are 2nd rounders.
      Whos worth that selection in the first at where we will be selecting?

      Comment


      • #18
        Dion Jordan is a strange type of player. 6'7 and 240 pounds, he is extremely athletic, but is he a DE? Can he gain another 30 or so pounds and keep his athleticism?

        And is he even a capable consistent pass rusher? Hes a bit hit or miss now, but perhaps that is a development thing?


        Werner I think may be the true top DE in this class. Chris Long type prospect (not because hes white), but he is going to be average to good at the combine. But he does everything well on the field. Uses everything he has well, power, quickness, counter moves, plays the run well.

        Montgomery translates better as a 3-4 DE, he is not that much of a pure edge rusher, more technique and power, and he can probably put on enough weight to play at 285-290.

        Mingo is easily the best pure athlete in terms of explosion, the ability to change directions. But he is allergic to contact. He tries to run around OTs, once they get a hold of him he has absolutely nothing. Doesnt translate his burst into power at all. Perhaps a lot of that is coaching but then again, maybe not. But LSU doesnt seem to do a very good job of getting the most out of their DL. Brockers for instance is already a better player than he ever was at LSU. Mingo potentially has massive upside, but its just as easy to project him to never do anything. I would guess he would blow up the combine.

        Ansah I think may be the second best DE (in terms of being pro ready, at least). Hes 6'5 270, with room to grow, has a huge wingspan, was a former track guy. So he certainly has the measurables. He certainly converts his burst into power, and is fully capable of driving back a blocker (occasionally two) into the QB. To me, I dont see him bend around the corner and get under the OTs often, which I am honestly curious if he can improve upon. He does play high a lot which may factor in, but which college DL dont do that.

        Okafor I have not watched, I do not care for Texas, lol.


        I still very much like Lemonier, who reminds me a lot of a younger Osi, lighter weight guy, but very fast off the snap, and has a great motor. May never be a great all around DE, but as a pass rush specialist he could be invaluable, especially as a guy who can chase down some of the quicker QBs the giants have to deal with. I think he might be there for the giants in the 2nd if he declares.
        Last edited by slipknottin; 12-12-2012, 04:44 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
          Dion Jordan is a strange type of player. 6'7 and 240 pounds, he is extremely athletic, but is he a DE? Can he gain another 30 or so pounds and keep his athleticism?

          And is he even a capable consistent pass rusher? Hes a bit hit or miss now, but perhaps that is a development thing?


          Werner I think may be the true top DE in this class. Chris Long type prospect (not because hes white), but he is going to be average to good at the combine. But he does everything well on the field. Uses everything he has well, power, quickness, counter moves, plays the run well.

          Montgomery translates better as a 3-4 DE, he is not that much of a pure edge rusher, more technique and power, and he can probably put on enough weight to play at 285-290.

          Mingo is easily the best pure athlete in terms of explosion, the ability to change directions. But he is allergic to contact. He tries to run around OTs, once they get a hold of him he has absolutely nothing. Doesnt translate his burst into power at all. Perhaps a lot of that is coaching but then again, maybe not. But LSU doesnt seem to do a very good job of getting the most out of their DL. Brockers for instance is already a better player than he ever was at LSU. Mingo potentially has massive upside, but its just as easy to project him to never do anything. I would guess he would blow up the combine.

          Ansah I think may be the second best DE (in terms of being pro ready, at least). Hes 6'5 270, with room to grow, has a huge wingspan, was a former track guy. So he certainly has the measurables. He certainly converts his burst into power, and is fully capable of driving back a blocker (occasionally two) into the QB. To me, I dont see him bend around the corner and get under the OTs often, which I am honestly curious if he can improve upon. He does play high a lot which may factor in, but which college DL dont do that.

          Okafor I have not watched, I do not care for Texas, lol.


          I still very much like Lemonier, who reminds me a lot of a younger Osi, lighter weight guy, but very fast off the snap, and has a great motor. May never be a great all around DE, but as a pass rush specialist he could be invaluable, especially as a guy who can chase down some of the quicker QBs the giants have to deal with. I think he might be there for the giants in the 2nd if he declares.
          I would agree with your assessment on all of this. Ansah to me is the most intriguing. Could be what Tuck was earlier in his career providing an inside pass rush on 3rd down.If u pair Ansah with JPP U would have long,Strong,physically powerful, and highly active DE's. U could even play some odd man fronts with them. I think if u got Ansah it would be a great idea to grab Lemonier as well. He would fit wonderfully as a 3rd down rusher . I hope the Giants are concerned as I am with the decline as Justin Tuck. Maybe they think they can get away with Kiwi at end but I really think waiting another year to add another End would be a huge mistake. I think u can get away 1 more year with Tuck so getting a guy in to learn the ropes now is really important

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
            I would agree with your assessment on all of this. Ansah to me is the most intriguing. Could be what Tuck was earlier in his career providing an inside pass rush on 3rd down.If u pair Ansah with JPP U would have long,Strong,physically powerful, and highly active DE's. U could even play some odd man fronts with them. I think if u got Ansah it would be a great idea to grab Lemonier as well. He would fit wonderfully as a 3rd down rusher . I hope the Giants are concerned as I am with the decline as Justin Tuck. Maybe they think they can get away with Kiwi at end but I really think waiting another year to add another End would be a huge mistake. I think u can get away 1 more year with Tuck so getting a guy in to learn the ropes now is really important
            Ya, i saw a game earlier in the yr that turned me on to Lemonier, but since then, i've been less then impressed... I don't see a 240lb guy as a DE.. OSI looks tiny out there at 260-263 or whatever he is, and Lemonier has a ways to go to even get that big, and also has to keep his speed and athletic ability.. I'd pass on Lemonier as a 4/3 DE, all though i can see the intrigue..

            To be honest, i'd rather draft Ansah(were all in agreement here), and then go for a brandon jenkins in RD 3(trade up most likely).. Then take the 2nd rder we got, and get a young OT or G , or possibly a Saftey(good top heavy class), or a stud LB.. I like Brandon Jenkins as a 4/3 fit more then i do Lemonier, plus i think Lemonier ends up going in the earlish 2nd rd, before pick 15of RD 2... It'd cost alot to move up and get him.. If were moving up in the 3rd, it'd cost alot less... If Jenkins isn't there, then so be it, draft other positons, and search for antoher DE in other RD's, or take someone diffrent in RD 3 at DE..etc

            Ansah and JPP = Dynamic Duo.. They remind me of eachother in alot of ways...

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            • #21
              Another guy i feel would be a nicer mid rd pass rusher that would make more sense then Lemonier is Quanterus Smith of W.Kentucky.. I am looking forward to seeing him go against Eric Fisher in his bowl game.. Hes a pure pass rusher, whos all ready had monster success against one of the nations best teams in ALABAMA, recording 3sacks against the crimson tide.. He also had 5sacks against Floida International.. Hes 6ft 5in 250lb's, and with that frame, could surely add some more weight.. Hes the kinda under the radar, small school DE that could make a diffrence for us..

              U guys should check em out in his bowl game, against Eric Fisher.. His stock could soar, if he does well in that contest... Also, Eric Fishers stock could see a bump as well...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                Another guy i feel would be a nicer mid rd pass rusher that would make more sense then Lemonier is Quanterus Smith of W.Kentucky.. I am looking forward to seeing him go against Eric Fisher in his bowl game.. Hes a pure pass rusher, whos all ready had monster success against one of the nations best teams in ALABAMA, recording 3sacks against the crimson tide.. He also had 5sacks against Floida International.. Hes 6ft 5in 250lb's, and with that frame, could surely add some more weight.. Hes the kinda under the radar, small school DE that could make a diffrence for us..

                U guys should check em out in his bowl game, against Eric Fisher.. His stock could soar, if he does well in that contest... Also, Eric Fishers stock could see a bump as well...
                Draftbreakdowns posted a bunch of him this year really good player.

                vs Southern Miss


                vs Alabama


                vs Ark st

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                • #23
                  I wouldnt mind another safety, my faith in KP is done

                  A RT or RG wouldnt be bad either, the right side of the OL makes me uneasy

                  Marvin Austin is a waste so DT wouldnt hurt
                  Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

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                  • #24
                    We're hosting the SuperBowl next year....we should just go ahead and consider it a rebuilding year

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by paulj View Post
                      I agree that we need more OL. Two picks one inside G/C and one outside T/G.
                      We are grooming Brewer as RT, McCants as LT, Mosley at G. I would resign Locklear cut DD.

                      I think we need another cover CB. We have Webster but he seems to have lost a step as he has been beaten alot this year?
                      WE have Prince and Hosley who areboth learning. WE need another good cover corner. We should have 5 CBs total.

                      We are set at safety with Phillps, Rolle, Brown Will Hill and Tyler Sash!!!! Total DBs =10 including 5 CBs.

                      We need a run stuffing DT to compliment Joseph and Canty. Im disappointed with Marvin Austin. He looks out of shape and slow.

                      I would return Kiwi to the DE rotation along with rookie Ojomo(=new Osi) who looked good in pre season.

                      I would draft an OLB with speed and a MLB.

                      If we can afford NY Jets TE Dustin Keller via FA if he comes cheap, he would be another weapon on offense that would open things up for our WRs and RBs. He would be another Jason Witten type TE. The Giants were going to draft him but the Jets moved up and took him. He is having an average year so he may come cheap? He would complement M Bennett.

                      CB
                      DT
                      OLB
                      MLB
                      OL
                      OL
                      RB
                      Brewer, McCants and Mosley are awful. If they ever get on the field for significant reps, Eli will be in big trouble.

                      We will use a high pick on a pass rusher.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                        Ya, i saw a game earlier in the yr that turned me on to Lemonier, but since then, i've been less then impressed... I don't see a 240lb guy as a DE.. OSI looks tiny out there at 260-263 or whatever he is, and Lemonier has a ways to go to even get that big, and also has to keep his speed and athletic ability.. I'd pass on Lemonier as a 4/3 DE, all though i can see the intrigue..
                        I dont agree with this. Osi is 250-255. And Im not looking at Lemonier to be an every down end, Im looking at him to be a pass rusher. Thats all he needs to be. Having a guy who can be brought out on passing downs is an incredibly valuable thing to have. Just like what the seahawks do with Bruce Irvin (who is roughly the same size as Lemonier).

                        Size isnt very critical to pass rushing ability either, best pass rusher in the league is the 235 pound Von Miller.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                          I dont agree with this. Osi is 250-255. And Im not looking at Lemonier to be an every down end, Im looking at him to be a pass rusher. Thats all he needs to be. Having a guy who can be brought out on passing downs is an incredibly valuable thing to have. Just like what the seahawks do with Bruce Irvin (who is roughly the same size as Lemonier).

                          Size isnt very critical to pass rushing ability either, best pass rusher in the league is the 235 pound Von Miller.
                          Were each entitled to his own opinion.. I for one don't see lemonier as a 4/3 DE in any situation.. I'd be shocked if hes not a OLB in a 34...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                            Were each entitled to his own opinion.. I for one don't see lemonier as a 4/3 DE in any situation.. I'd be shocked if hes not a OLB in a 34...
                            If he can rush the passer as a 3-4 OLB, he can rush the passer as a 4-3 DE.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              If he can rush the passer as a 3-4 OLB, he can rush the passer as a 4-3 DE.
                              nah, hes gonna rush the pass rusher from a standup OLB in a 34.. Thats my opinion...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                                Draftbreakdowns posted a bunch of him this year really good player.

                                vs Southern Miss


                                vs Alabama


                                vs Ark st
                                Yup, this guy can play!

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