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If Ansah, Warmack and Ogletree is available at pick 19 who do we pick?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Because u can't think like that.. If there is a player on the board that fits a need and is worthy of the pick, then why not? If theres players at other positons who fit the spot ur picking value wise, and the positon u need , there is not a player , then don't reach.. Ansah fits value and need, which is best of both worlds, and he has enormous potential...
    But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?

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    • #77
      Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
      But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?
      We have no depth at all at DE. We have JPP and a now ineffective Tuck. Osi is gone. Ojomo is an undrafted FA who wasn't even able to get on the field this year and Tracey showed very little when he got on the field.

      Considering that our whole defensive philosophy is based upon pressuring the passer, DE is a HUGE need.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by 2013BigBlue
        None...I would draft the best RB in the draft and get a value pick as a pass rusher to replace Osi
        No way that JR would draft RB's in the first round two years in a row.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
          We have no depth at all at DE. We have JPP and a now ineffective Tuck. Osi is gone. Ojomo is an undrafted FA who wasn't even able to get on the field this year and Tracey showed very little when he got on the field.Considering that our whole defensive philosophy is based upon pressuring the passer, DE is a HUGE need.
          When did I say it wasn't a need? We have depth and if Tuck is here and you think Coughlin isn't going to start him or have him heavily used in a rotation that may or may not include a rookie but definitely will include Kiwi then you haven't been paying attention. My question is why take a pass rusher in the first this year? And because it seems my points are being forgotten or ignored ill again remind that Strahan, our beloved hall of fame de, was not a first rounder.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
            When did I say it wasn't a need? We have depth and if Tuck is here and you think Coughlin isn't going to start him or have him heavily used in a rotation that may or may not include a rookie but definitely will include Kiwi then you haven't been paying attention. My question is why take a pass rusher in the first this year? And because it seems my points are being forgotten or ignored ill again remind that Strahan, our beloved hall of fame de, was not a first rounder.
            You questioned whether drafting a DE fills a need, and then said that we have depth at DE.

            I believe that we do not have adequate depth at DE to carry out our defensive philosophy (as evidenced by our putrid pass rush this year) and that DE is therefore a huge need.
            Last edited by TCHOF; 01-08-2013, 03:54 PM.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
              You questioned whether drafting a DE fills a need, and then said that we have depth at DE.I believe that we do not have adequate depth at DE to carry out our defensive philosophy (as evidenced by our putrid pass rush this year) and that DE is therefore a huge need.
              Perhaps a miscommunication. I'm questioning whether a first round DE was a necessity. I actually think a 2nd or 3rd round DE and/or FA pickup would be wise. I agree we need someone, but I disagree with using our first to do it.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                Perhaps a miscommunication. I'm questioning whether a first round DE was a necessity. I actually think a 2nd or 3rd round DE and/or FA pickup would be wise. I agree we need someone, but I disagree with using our first to do it.
                And what 4-3 DE would be there in the 3rd that'll be worth a damn?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by myles2424 View Post
                  And what 4-3 DE would be there in the 3rd that'll be worth a damn?
                  Ask Reese, I'm not a draft expert, but from what Ive seen in the past, oh I dunno, 50+ years of NFL Drafts teams that do their diligence can find talent at any position in any round. Off topic, condescending towards others for the sake of it is very unbecoming.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                    But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?
                    U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                      U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now.
                      Well if you twist what Im saying then yeah, RGIII was dumb because you could have got a Brady calibur player in 6. However, that isn't what Im saying at all. All Im saying is that everyone is going nuts over a first round DE when it seems like, historically, we have successfully found good pass rushers outside of round one. Not like round 6 alla Brady, but 2 and 3 for sure. You wanna talk about sticking to philosophy? How about LT and JPP were athletic freaks and the only pas rushers in recent history that were taken in the first to be successful (minus one or 2 wiffs in.the Strahan era). All our other gems (strah, Osi, tuck, tolly to a degree, and kiwi...yes I'm counting him as a second rounder and no, I don't think that's unreasonable) have been picked after round one. So, again, why a DE in round one this year with literally 4 other positions that are thinner in this years draft that we need help and depth in?
                      Last edited by ImElectric2; 01-08-2013, 04:51 PM.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                        Well if you twist what Im saying then yeah, RGIII was dumb because you could have got a Brady calibur player in 6. However, that isn't what Im saying at all. All Im saying is that everyone is going nuts over a first round DE when it seems like, historically, we have successfully found good pass rushers outside of round one. Not like round 6 alla Brady, but 2 and 3 for sure. You wanna talk about sticking to philosophy? How about LT and JPP were athletic freaks and the only pas rushers in recent history that were taken in the first to be successful (minus one or 2 wiffs in.the Strahan era). All our other gems (strah, Osi, tuck, tolly to a degree, and kiwi...yes I'm counting him as a second rounder and no, I don't think that's unreasonable) have been picked after round one. So, again, why a DE in round one this year with literally 4 other positions that are thinner in this years draft that we need help and depth in?
                        So Kiwi was 1st rounder but you will count him as a 2nd okay. Strahan was picked at 40 is it unreasonable for me to say he is a 1st Rounder. Point is when your team is driven by Pass Rushers its probably a good idea to take the best athletes you can get your hands on. The higher the pick the higher quality of athlete. Yes u can get guys like Tuck who slip because of injury concerns and get taken in the 3rd and maybe Carradine is that guy this year we will see. One thing I am absolutely certain about is if the NY Giants dont start getting guys who can get to the QB on this defense they arent going to win many games.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                          So Kiwi was 1st rounder but you will count him as a 2nd okay. Strahan was picked at 40 is it unreasonable for me to say he is a 1st Rounder. Point is when your team is driven by Pass Rushers its probably a good idea to take the best athletes you can get your hands on. The higher the pick the higher quality of athlete. Yes u can get guys like Tuck who slip because of injury concerns and get taken in the 3rd and maybe Carradine is that guy this year we will see. One thing I am absolutely certain about is if the NY Giants dont start getting guys who can get to the QB on this defense they arent going to win many games.
                          That's fair. And I can get behind that. I also like that you turned my Kiwi logic around on me haha. I guess part of where I was coming from was the notion that this draft is supposed to be deep with pass rushers. As I previously stated Im not really a draft guru, but if true that there are plenty of pass rushers in this draft would that make a difference in your mind? Like, if you could get a pass rusher of roughly the same talent level at 19 or 38, why wouldn't you look to take a RT at 19 when the talent level there drops significantly?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                            U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now.
                            We may of WON with a solid pass rush, but u can't put the 86 and 90 teams in the same breath with the 07 and 11 teams, becuase they played a diffrent base defnese, and we won 86 and 90 built around our LB core, which might of been the best LB core ever with guys like Banks, Johnson, Carson, LT, and so on and so fourth..

                            We always have had complete teams for the most part in our winning seasons... Look at how important Corey Webster was in the 07 playoff run, and RW McQuarters for that matter. We need to put resources into the LB core and Secondary, or our pass rush isn't gonna mean squat.. 5sacks a game is great, but not if when ur not getting sacks, ur getting torched down the field..

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                              That's fair. And I can get behind that. I also like that you turned my Kiwi logic around on me haha. I guess part of where I was coming from was the notion that this draft is supposed to be deep with pass rushers. As I previously stated Im not really a draft guru, but if true that there are plenty of pass rushers in this draft would that make a difference in your mind? Like, if you could get a pass rusher of roughly the same talent level at 19 or 38, why wouldn't you look to take a RT at 19 when the talent level there drops significantly?
                              You wouldnt be picking You would be picking around 51 not 38 though.In 32 picks a lot of those guys can come off the board and the Giants have not been overly aggressive in the draft recently moving up or down either

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                We may of WON with a solid pass rush, but u can't put the 86 and 90 teams in the same breath with the 07 and 11 teams, becuase they played a diffrent base defnese, and we won 86 and 90 built around our LB core, which might of been the best LB core ever with guys like Banks, Johnson, Carson, LT, and so on and so fourth..

                                We always have had complete teams for the most part in our winning seasons... Look at how important Corey Webster was in the 07 playoff run, and RW McQuarters for that matter. We need to put resources into the LB core and Secondary, or our pass rush isn't gonna mean squat.. 5sacks a game is great, but not if when ur not getting sacks, ur getting torched down the field..
                                Im not talking about what Base thats irrelevant really. The Giants and most teams win with pressure on the QB it starts there. If U cant get to the QB your defense is in trouble. 86 and 90 teams were great teams still were built on QB pressure the main cogs of that team were built before Free Agency. Now U have to be smarter with your resources they arent unlimted
                                Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-09-2013, 08:17 AM.

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