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alec ogeltree vs. manti te'o vs. kasheem greene vs. arthur brown,jr.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    I think Brown is a WLB all day.. Hes not even listed at 230 for petes sake.. Hes also on the short side.. I'd rather have Brown at WLB, and maybe draft Kevin Red**** to play the middle in the 4th, if hes on the board still...
    He's listed at 231 on his college page.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
      Both the Will and Mike get dropped the same. The mike just has a deeper drop, while the will has more responsibilities against the run.

      The will absolutely is more critical to have a great player.

      The bucs, bears, vikings, colts, etc. When they were running the Tampa 2 all had tremendous Will backers.

      Lance Briggs, Derrick brooks, chad Greenway, Cato June, etc. all are better than the middle backers on their teams apart from Briggs, though you could argue he is as good as Urlacher.

      As for being too short, Lets see

      Briggs - 6'1
      Greenway - 6'2
      Brooks - 6'0
      June - 6'0

      Arthur Brown is 6'1. So his size is not an issue in the least


      As for J Will. He is a weak side backer as well. But now that he is up to 230+ he could play some Sam. He already spends a lot of his time on the field matched up against TEs
      The thing that scares me about Brown, is he reminds me alot of Jordan Dizon when he came out.. Almost identical prospects, but Dizon coulden't hold up in the pros, with that small body, and when all u do is make tackles, and ur body is that small, its kinda hard to make a living in the pros, and Brown is similar, as he dosen't make many plays, but makes a ton of tackles with his smallish bodytype.. 6ft 229lbs, is what i think he is..

      How u can say Ogletree and Minter are small, and then act as if Browns WT is no issue at all, is a mystery to me?

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      • #18
        Ogletree is really growing on me.. I like the fact that he can cover and is a 3 down LB..

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        • #19
          Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
          The thing that scares me about Brown, is he reminds me alot of Jordan Dizon when he came out.. Almost identical prospects, but Dizon coulden't hold up in the pros, with that small body, and when all u do is make tackles, and ur body is that small, its kinda hard to make a living in the pros, and Brown is similar, as he dosen't make many plays, but makes a ton of tackles with his smallish bodytype.. 6ft 229lbs, is what i think he is..

          How u can say Ogletree and Minter are small, and then act as if Browns WT is no issue at all, is a mystery to me?
          He's listed at 6'1 231.
          Same size as Lavonte David

          And ogletree is small for his frame. He's 6'3 so he should be 245+
          Minter is short. Probably under 6'.

          And t he bigger issue with size is the position. Minter would be ok probably as a weakside backer with his size. But not as a mike. And I don't think minter has the skill set to play outside.

          Ogletree could eventually fit as a mike. But he needs to gain 15+ pounds
          Last edited by slipknottin; 01-17-2013, 11:21 AM.

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          • #20
            Alec Ogletree has a frame to add weight, and has extreme athletic ability(gurantee he destorys the combine for LB prospects), and makes more plays, lead his team in tackles despite missing 4games, has played Saftey before, which to me is a added plus, if for no other reason but to have more perspective on other positons on the field..etc This guy could easily be a 6ft 3in 240lb athletic playmaking machine in a yr or 2...

            If i'm picking a LB , its gotta go lke this

            Ogletree
            Greene
            Minter
            Brown
            Red****/Hodges

            Thats the way i personally value the LB's...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
              Ogletree
              Greene
              Minter
              Brown
              Red****/Hodges

              Thats the way i personally value the LB's...
              Good list. I might actually move Minter above Greene if he passes the measuables test at he combine. I think he has the leadership edge. I like them both tho.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                I'm still just not convinced with ogletree. He has upside. But he is not a middle backer in the nfl right now. He's light, he plays light, he can't shed.

                It's completely a potential project pick with ogletree.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
                  Ogletree is really growing on me.. I like the fact that he can cover and is a 3 down LB..
                  Khaseem Greene also can cover some, but not like Ogletree.. I'm telling u, Khaseem Greene will grow on u, if u watch more of him, and research em more.. I'm almost willing to give the Sportzfan gurantee on him being a great pro, hes that kinda good.... Ogletree and Greene are sensational players....

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                    I'm still just not convinced with ogletree. He has upside. But he is not a middle backer in the nfl right now. He's light, he plays light, he can't shed.

                    It's completely a potential project pick with ogletree.
                    Hes freaking 6ft 3in 232lbs dude! I mean, obviously with that frame and athletic ability, gaining 5-10lbs should be of no issue, while maintaining his athletic ability, and he is in on like every play. He avg'd more tackles per game then Brown, he made more sacks then brown, he defended more passes then brown, and all this while missing 4games in the rugged SEC... Ogletree gets to face beast running backs on a weekly basis with ridiculous offensive lineman and comes out making plays and tackles left and right... Brown has faced ACC and BIG12 RB's and olineman, who are very good, but no match for the SEC teams... I like what Ogletree has going for em, much more then Brown.. I like what Ogletree has accomplished while missing 4games more then what Brown has.. And to be honest, it comes down to what u do on the field more then anything.. Ogletree is more of a diffrence maker then maybe any other LB in this draft, thats fit for a 4/3 defense...

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                    • #25
                      Hence why Ogletree has missed 4games and flew up draft boards and into almost guranteed 1st rd status and ahead of Arthur Brown in the blink of a e eye, and hes only a jr! Trust me, it isn't all potential, or were talking 3rd rd at best, see Jelani Jenkins, this kids earned his grade, and yes, when u put in the fact hes doing what hes doing while playing a new positon and producing like he has all ready with that immense upside, its a no brainer... Ogletree is a better prospect then Arthur Brown...

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                      • #26
                        Again you go right to the stats like they prove anything.

                        Watch him play. Watch how rarely any OL get to him.

                        You keep anyone completely free most of the game up near the line and he will have huge numbers


                        Ogletree will have to move to weakside and be well protected at least for awhile. If he can learn to play more physically, actually use his hands once in awhile, and gain weight, then he can be a mike.

                        But he runs around like a zombie and he's fortunate to never have to fight through blockers.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                          Alec Ogletree has a frame to add weight, and has extreme athletic ability(gurantee he destorys the combine for LB prospects), and makes more plays, lead his team in tackles despite missing 4games, has played Saftey before, which to me is a added plus, if for no other reason but to have more perspective on other positons on the field..etc This guy could easily be a 6ft 3in 240lb athletic playmaking machine in a yr or 2...

                          If i'm picking a LB , its gotta go lke this

                          Ogletree
                          Greene
                          Minter
                          Brown
                          Red****/Hodges

                          Thats the way i personally value the LB's...
                          I would go:
                          Ogletree


                          Minter/Johnson
                          Brown
                          Red****
                          Greene/Porter

                          *I'm still looking at Greene.. I'm not as familiar with him as I am some of these others... so he may move up as I watch his film. I'm VERY familiar with Ogletree, Minter and Brown. Been watching these guys since they first stepped onto a college field. I'll say this, with Brown sometimes you have to look for him in a game. With Ogletree, you don't have to look... he jumps out. With Minter, I wasn't really impressed with him until this year but he had a great year and turned out being a much better prospect than I thought he would. My guess is that he's going to measure out a lot slower than Ogletree than Brown.
                          Last edited by BlueSabbath; 01-17-2013, 01:32 PM.
                          2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                          Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                          Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                          Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                          Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                          Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                          Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                          Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                            Both the Will and Mike get dropped the same. The mike just has a deeper drop, while the will has more responsibilities against the run.
                            Hence the MIKE has to cover more ground.

                            The will absolutely is more critical to have a great player.

                            The bucs, bears, vikings, colts, etc. When they were running the Tampa 2 all had tremendous Will backers.

                            Lance Briggs, Derrick brooks, chad Greenway, Cato June, etc. all are better than the middle backers on their teams apart from Briggs, though you could argue he is as good as Urlacher.
                            Urlacher is a much better LB than Briggs (over the course of their careers) and is much more integral to the Bears defense.

                            Chad Greenway is a SAM and I'm not sure you can make the case that he's better than E.J. Henderson was for that team at this point. E.J. Henderson certainly meant more to the Vikings than Greenway did.

                            Cato June currently plays SAM as well (transitioned two years ago when he went to Tampa).

                            And having a good WILL (or better WILL than MIKE) is not an indication of priority, but rather how your personnel choices worked out.

                            As for being too short, Lets see

                            Briggs - 6'1
                            Greenway - 6'2
                            Brooks - 6'0
                            June - 6'0

                            Arthur Brown is 6'1. So his size is not an issue in the least
                            I meant compared to Ogletree. All things being equal, who would you rather have at WILL ... the 6'3 guy or the 6'1 guy?

                            As for J Will. He is a weak side backer as well. But now that he is up to 230+ he could play some Sam. He already spends a lot of his time on the field matched up against TEs
                            Not sure he could play SAM. As you've pointed out, he's not strong enough at the point of attack. And nowhere do I see him listed larger than 225 lb (was 220 when drafted, and 215 throughout most of his college career).

                            And while I like Arthur Brown on tape, odds are that he's not the next Derrick Brooks.

                            Keep in mind that I like both Brown and Ogletree. I just think Ogletree translates better than Brown and fills a potential need more. Having said that, I thought Vontaze Burfict was going to be garbage and look how he's turning out. So I readily admit to being awful at judging college talent in translation.
                            Last edited by Kruunch; 01-17-2013, 12:12 PM.
                            I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              A guy to keep an eye on a little later in the draft is Nico Johnson. 5* out of high school and had a solid but quiet career at Alabama (freshman All SEC). His biggest problems were the amount of talent surrounding him. I'm not convinced a guy like Minter would be that much better than Johnson and you could get him later. At Alabama he was more of a run stopping linebacker, while Mosley was more of a passing down LB but he still moves REALLY well for his size and rarely gets knocked back. Another guy I'd be REALLY happy to land.

                              junior highlights:
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBTRPyY5lw
                              2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                              Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                              Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                              Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                              Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                              Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                              Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                              Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                                Again you go right to the stats like they prove anything.

                                Watch him play. Watch how rarely any OL get to him.

                                You keep anyone completely free most of the game up near the line and he will have huge numbers


                                Ogletree will have to move to weakside and be well protected at least for awhile. If he can learn to play more physically, actually use his hands once in awhile, and gain weight, then he can be a mike.

                                But he runs around like a zombie and he's fortunate to never have to fight through blockers.
                                I have watched em play.. I've watched em one on one just dismantle Eddie Lacy at the goalline and pick up and drive TJ Yeldon into the ground 1on1... So what if he has to get alittle better at Shedding blocks, no ones perfect.. The guys got way much more going for em then Arhtur Brown does... Its not just stats.. Its athletic ability, its versatility, its frame to add weight, its playmaking ability, its everything! Ogletree is gonna be a stud in the NFL...

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