Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

alec ogeltree vs. manti te'o vs. kasheem greene vs. arthur brown,jr.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • juice33s
    replied
    Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    Numerous times in that game he got blown up by a TE and turns his back away from contact
    Whatever, Put A Brown on the field against Alabama and see how he does. I know Kyle Long and the Oregon Oline made a ***** out of him in the Fiesta Bowl.

    Two things can't be over looked here, Ogletree faced far greater competition in the SEC and out performed Brown who went up against alot of finnesse spread BIG 12 offenses. Ogletree's also two years younger then Brown who has far more experience at the Lb position

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
    1. This isn't very accurate IMO. I'd recommend rewatching SECCG. I know you have already, but I could point out a number of plays where he sheds blocks or beats the blocker to make or effect plays... and that was against the best OL (by far) in CFB. He DEFINITELY didn't seem to be shying away from any contact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZy_y0on4u8 I could say the same for other games really (watch their matchup against Auburn). Not sure what film you're watching.
    2. A linebacker is suppose to be able to recognize open gaps and fill them. That's what I want a linebacker to do. People are always talking about instinctive players... that's good to an extent, but I want guys that know their assignments and play them. The reason Alabama's defense is so good is because they play disciplined gap assignements.. they don't just have guys flying over the field trying to make plays. With that said, in coverage and in making plays to the outside, I think Ogletree is very instinctive.
    3. UGA's front wasn't really all that impressive this year.. and I don't criticize a player for being able to avoid blocks. (not saying you are) With that said, UGA plays a 3-4. If he was doing so good because of the guys in front of him in UGA, wouldn't he benefit even more in a 4-3? Not that this matters cause I disagree that he is totally removed from plays when blocked.
    4. When there are LBs that are good at shedding blocks, you're gonna get a bunch of people saying they can't drop back into coverage and how that's what is most important.
    5. What makes Ogletree impressive isn't looking flashy shooting into gaps unblocked... it's stopping guys like Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon dead in their tracks by himself and catching speedsters like Onterio McCalleb from behind. Not to mention his ability to make open field tackles and drop into coverage well.
    6. As you mentioned, he is young and has a frame to bulk up. The problem is, as I mentioned, if he turns into some monster LB that tosses blockers aside, suddenly he doesn't fit our defense anymore because he can't play CB as well.

    I know you know your stuff, so take these as friendly alternative opinions.
    Numerous times in that game he got blown up by a TE "Michael Williams great TE " and turns his back away from contact. Settling into a spot and making tackles 8 yards down field to me isnt a great play. Its not that I dont like Ogletree believe me I see all the good things he does as well.
    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-18-2013, 07:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSanta
    replied
    [QUOTE=nycsportzfan;665051]What the GMEN should do is try and trade down and secure extra picks in this draft.. Like i said before, u got all these underclassmen declaring(now a record!) and 2teams missing picks in RD2(browns for Supplamental drafting of Josh Gordon and Saints for Bountygate)..
    /QUOTE]

    This....

    Moreover, when you describe a team that usually trades up, you are talking about a team that is relatively strong. Maybe a team that has few holes and is a piece or 2 away from contending for a ring. I do not believe we fit into that mold anymore.

    Like you, I believe we have multiple needs this offseason. More than last year and way more than the year before. I do not think we are a player or 2 away from contending again. We have aged overnight and we need an infusion of youth and enthusiasm. What I am saying is we fit the mold of a team that is more likely to trade back. We have multiple needs and some positions that need more competition from the young guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    Huge difference in line play, Ogletree benefits immensely from the players in front of him. If u watch a lot of Georgia u will see the bulk of Ogletree's plays are made by attacking an empty gap. When he gets 1 he comes flying through faster than every LB in the class and will blow up the play. Its very flashy and its easy to fall in love with because that kind of explosion is rare. Flip side of that is when he doesnt get a empty gap he is non existent on the play. He will avoid making contact with Olineman even to the point where he pulls himself out of position
    Im not saying this isnt correctable maybe when he puts more weight on or used to playing LB he will be comfortable filling the hole against lineman but right now that isnt his strength
    I really have no idea where Ogletree will get drafted his kind of physical ability is coveted
    1. This isn't very accurate IMO. I'd recommend rewatching SECCG. I know you have already, but I could point out a number of plays where he sheds blocks or beats the blocker to make or effect plays... and that was against the best OL (by far) in CFB. He DEFINITELY didn't seem to be shying away from any contact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZy_y0on4u8 I could say the same for other games really (watch their matchup against Auburn). Not sure what film you're watching.
    2. A linebacker is suppose to be able to recognize open gaps and fill them. That's what I want a linebacker to do. People are always talking about instinctive players... that's good to an extent, but I want guys that know their assignments and play them. The reason Alabama's defense is so good is because they play disciplined gap assignements.. they don't just have guys flying over the field trying to make plays. With that said, in coverage and in making plays to the outside, I think Ogletree is very instinctive.
    3. UGA's front wasn't really all that impressive this year.. and I don't criticize a player for being able to avoid blocks. (not saying you are) With that said, UGA plays a 3-4. If he was doing so good because of the guys in front of him in UGA, wouldn't he benefit even more in a 4-3? Not that this matters cause I disagree that he is totally removed from plays when blocked.
    4. When there are LBs that are good at shedding blocks, you're gonna get a bunch of people saying they can't drop back into coverage and how that's what is most important.
    5. What makes Ogletree impressive isn't looking flashy shooting into gaps unblocked... it's stopping guys like Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon dead in their tracks by himself and catching speedsters like Onterio McCalleb from behind. Not to mention his ability to make open field tackles and drop into coverage well.
    6. As you mentioned, he is young and has a frame to bulk up. The problem is, as I mentioned, if he turns into some monster LB that tosses blockers aside, suddenly he doesn't fit our defense anymore because he can't play CB as well.

    I know you know your stuff, so take these as friendly alternative opinions.
    Last edited by BlueSabbath; 01-18-2013, 05:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • myles2424
    replied
    I havent watched enough Ogletree to stand up for him or not....But athletic LBs usualy they avoid contact first because their used to making plays with their athletisim rather than taking blocks head up.....That can be fixed.......But if he gets bulldozed when its 1 on 1 block time, then thats something to worry about.......So somebody thats done their research comment on that...

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    David was way more productive and impacted games more then Arthur Brown... I know u guys hate stats, but David had over 130tackles, 5.5sacks, 2FF, 2FR, 13TFL, 2INTS..etc Brown had a stretch of 7straight games he didn't reach double digits in tackles which guys like Ogletree and David never came near...

    Thats what i don't get, is if Brown is so much better then Ogletree, and Ogletrees not good at geting off blocks, why does he get way more tackles, way more TFL, more sacks, more everything? Wheres the benefit of whatever arthur brown is doing better then ogletree?

    Also, if hes as good as David, then whats the point of David making so many more plays, behind teh line and in coverege?

    WHy does Brown get all these accolades from you guys, when hes a undersized, non playmaking, dosen't rack up tackles like you would think, LB?

    The more i look into Arthur Brown, the less i like... I liked em alot untill really delving into video and production.. For a guy who played in everygame, he rarley impacted the game, and wasen't all over the field making tackles either...

    He only had 4 games of double digit tackles.. Lavonte David had like 10 or something... Ogletree had 7 and he missed 4games.. They also have more plays made as well, in covereg and behind the line.. I'm not getting why there in the same ball park to u guys? Is it what u guys think hes gonna turn into?
    Huge difference in line play, Ogletree benefits immensely from the players in front of him. If u watch a lot of Georgia u will see the bulk of Ogletree's plays are made by attacking an empty gap. When he gets 1 he comes flying through faster than every LB in the class and will blow up the play. Its very flashy and its easy to fall in love with because that kind of explosion is rare. Flip side of that is when he doesnt get a empty gap he is non existent on the play. He will avoid making contact with Olineman even to the point where he pulls himself out of position
    Im not saying this isnt correctable maybe when he puts more weight on or used to playing LB he will be comfortable filling the hole against lineman but right now that isnt his strength
    I really have no idea where Ogletree will get drafted his kind of physical ability is coveted
    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-18-2013, 03:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neverend
    replied
    I think arthur browns athleticism and sideline to sideline speed is being very overlooked. this isnt sean lee vs bruce carter. arthur brown is a superb athlete as well that has great upside. i think hes more instinctive than ogletree, just doesnt have the size

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
    Khaseem Greene is another player that people are hype on but I don't see the hype? I saw in one mock he was taken at the 19th spot and i dug a little more into this kid. He doesn't look like a 1st round talent to me, nothing truly stands out about him besides he has played some safety.
    Greene reminds me a lot of Ellersby on the Ravens. I think he'll be a really solid LBer ... but I don't think he's a first round talent personally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Just watched the Ogletree and Brown videos posted in the film room and here's my take on those two based on that tape

    Brown - Made the more consistent plays in the run game but didn't have to deal with blockers on the frequency Ogletree did vs. Nebraska. He does seem to have better instincts than Ogletree as of now but I do worry about this guy way more than Ogletree in the future handling NFL caliber run games in the event his Dline doesn't keep him consistently clean. He displayed good discipline too and being completely honest, I'd rather have Brown on my team for a game TOMORROW.

    Ogletree - He looked lost at times and was "erased" on some plays due to his Dline getting pushed around on the interior. What stood out to me was the flash plays he made by making a scrapy move on the ball in a 3rd and short situation to cause a forced fumble and it was at a very crucial moment. Don't forget the sack he had to close the game. He also can obviously put on another 10lbs and not lose any speed to affect his playmaking ability sideline to sideline.

    Conclusion: Brown looks like he can be a really good weakside linebacker. Ogletree has a MUCH higher ceiling to be a big time impact linebacker in the league but he could bust if he goes to the wrong team and/or doesn't get put on a good conditioning and weightlifting program. Putting weight on Ogletree's frame is going to arguably be the biggest factor in his NFL future.
    +1

    This was *exactly* my thinking between the two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Just watched the Ogletree and Brown videos posted in the film room and here's my take on those two based on that tape

    Brown - Made the more consistent plays in the run game but didn't have to deal with blockers on the frequency Ogletree did vs. Nebraska. He does seem to have better instincts than Ogletree as of now but I do worry about this guy way more than Ogletree in the future handling NFL caliber run games in the event his Dline doesn't keep him consistently clean. He displayed good discipline too and being completely honest, I'd rather have Brown on my team for a game TOMORROW.

    Ogletree - He looked lost at times and was "erased" on some plays due to his Dline getting pushed around on the interior. What stood out to me was the flash plays he made by making a scrapy move on the ball in a 3rd and short situation to cause a forced fumble and it was at a very crucial moment. Don't forget the sack he had to close the game. He also can obviously put on another 10lbs and not lose any speed to affect his playmaking ability sideline to sideline.

    Conclusion: Brown looks like he can be a really good weakside linebacker. Ogletree has a MUCH higher ceiling to be a big time impact linebacker in the league but he could bust if he goes to the wrong team and/or doesn't get put on a good conditioning and weightlifting program. Putting weight on Ogletree's frame is going to arguably be the biggest factor in his NFL future.
    I agree ,Ogletree to me has the highest upside of all the LB's. The negatives with him could be related to inexperience at LB and lower body strength

    Leave a comment:


  • myles2424
    replied
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    David was way more productive and impacted games more then Arthur Brown... I know u guys hate stats, but David had over 130tackles, 5.5sacks, 2FF, 2FR, 13TFL, 2INTS..etc Brown had a stretch of 7straight games he didn't reach double digits in tackles which guys like Ogletree and David never came near...

    Thats what i don't get, is if Brown is so much better then Ogletree, and Ogletrees not good at geting off blocks, why does he get way more tackles, way more TFL, more sacks, more everything? Wheres the benefit of whatever arthur brown is doing better then ogletree?

    Also, if hes as good as David, then whats the point of David making so many more plays, behind teh line and in coverege?

    WHy does Brown get all these accolades from you guys, when hes a undersized, non playmaking, dosen't rack up tackles like you would think, LB?

    The more i look into Arthur Brown, the less i like... I liked em alot untill really delving into video and production.. For a guy who played in everygame, he rarley impacted the game, and wasen't all over the field making tackles either...

    He only had 4 games of double digit tackles.. Lavonte David had like 10 or something... Ogletree had 7 and he missed 4games.. They also have more plays made as well, in covereg and behind the line.. I'm not getting why there in the same ball park to u guys? Is it what u guys think hes gonna turn into?
    I remember David coming within a few pics of our 2nder & was thrilled at the idea of having him in NY.....that's one of the few times I actually support trading up,outside of the 1st round & you'd wouldn't lose much to get a steal on a 1st round LBr at the end of the 2nd....but whatever....

    Leave a comment:


  • rainierjef
    replied
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    David was way more productive and impacted games more then Arthur Brown... I know u guys hate stats, but David had over 130tackles, 5.5sacks, 2FF, 2FR, 13TFL, 2INTS..etc Brown had a stretch of 7straight games he didn't reach double digits in tackles which guys like Ogletree and David never came near...

    Thats what i don't get, is if Brown is so much better then Ogletree, and Ogletrees not good at geting off blocks, why does he get way more tackles, way more TFL, more sacks, more everything? Wheres the benefit of whatever arthur brown is doing better then ogletree?

    Also, if hes as good as David, then whats the point of David making so many more plays, behind teh line and in coverege?

    WHy does Brown get all these accolades from you guys, when hes a undersized, non playmaking, dosen't rack up tackles like you would think, LB?

    The more i look into Arthur Brown, the less i like... I liked em alot untill really delving into video and production.. For a guy who played in everygame, he rarley impacted the game, and wasen't all over the field making tackles either...

    He only had 4 games of double digit tackles.. Lavonte David had like 10 or something... Ogletree had 7 and he missed 4games.. They also have more plays made as well, in covereg and behind the line.. I'm not getting why there in the same ball park to u guys? Is it what u guys think hes gonna turn into?
    Khaseem Greene is another player that people are hype on but I don't see the hype? I saw in one mock he was taken at the 19th spot and i dug a little more into this kid. He doesn't look like a 1st round talent to me, nothing truly stands out about him besides he has played some safety.

    Leave a comment:


  • TCHOF
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Just watched the Ogletree and Brown videos posted in the film room and here's my take on those two based on that tape

    Brown - Made the more consistent plays in the run game but didn't have to deal with blockers on the frequency Ogletree did vs. Nebraska. He does seem to have better instincts than Ogletree as of now but I do worry about this guy way more than Ogletree in the future handling NFL caliber run games in the event his Dline doesn't keep him consistently clean. He displayed good discipline too and being completely honest, I'd rather have Brown on my team for a game TOMORROW.

    Ogletree - He looked lost at times and was "erased" on some plays due to his Dline getting pushed around on the interior. What stood out to me was the flash plays he made by making a scrapy move on the ball in a 3rd and short situation to cause a forced fumble and it was at a very crucial moment. Don't forget the sack he had to close the game. He also can obviously put on another 10lbs and not lose any speed to affect his playmaking ability sideline to sideline.

    Conclusion: Brown looks like he can be a really good weakside linebacker. Ogletree has a MUCH higher ceiling to be a big time impact linebacker in the league but he could bust if he goes to the wrong team and/or doesn't get put on a good conditioning and weightlifting program. Putting weight on Ogletree's frame is going to arguably be the biggest factor in his NFL future.
    Good breakdown. thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheEnigma
    replied
    Just watched the Ogletree and Brown videos posted in the film room and here's my take on those two based on that tape

    Brown - Made the more consistent plays in the run game but didn't have to deal with blockers on the frequency Ogletree did vs. Nebraska. He does seem to have better instincts than Ogletree as of now but I do worry about this guy way more than Ogletree in the future handling NFL caliber run games in the event his Dline doesn't keep him consistently clean. He displayed good discipline too and being completely honest, I'd rather have Brown on my team for a game TOMORROW.

    Ogletree - He looked lost at times and was "erased" on some plays due to his Dline getting pushed around on the interior. What stood out to me was the flash plays he made by making a scrapy move on the ball in a 3rd and short situation to cause a forced fumble and it was at a very crucial moment. Don't forget the sack he had to close the game. He also can obviously put on another 10lbs and not lose any speed to affect his playmaking ability sideline to sideline.

    Conclusion: Brown looks like he can be a really good weakside linebacker. Ogletree has a MUCH higher ceiling to be a big time impact linebacker in the league but he could bust if he goes to the wrong team and/or doesn't get put on a good conditioning and weightlifting program. Putting weight on Ogletree's frame is going to arguably be the biggest factor in his NFL future.

    Leave a comment:


  • quan the don
    replied
    Watching Brown vs Baylor, and RG3 is so annoying. 3:35 brought joy to my heart!

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X