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alec ogeltree vs. manti te'o vs. kasheem greene vs. arthur brown,jr.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
    Khaseem Greene is another player that people are hype on but I don't see the hype? I saw in one mock he was taken at the 19th spot and i dug a little more into this kid. He doesn't look like a 1st round talent to me, nothing truly stands out about him besides he has played some safety.
    Greene reminds me a lot of Ellersby on the Ravens. I think he'll be a really solid LBer ... but I don't think he's a first round talent personally.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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    • #62
      I think arthur browns athleticism and sideline to sideline speed is being very overlooked. this isnt sean lee vs bruce carter. arthur brown is a superb athlete as well that has great upside. i think hes more instinctive than ogletree, just doesnt have the size

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
        David was way more productive and impacted games more then Arthur Brown... I know u guys hate stats, but David had over 130tackles, 5.5sacks, 2FF, 2FR, 13TFL, 2INTS..etc Brown had a stretch of 7straight games he didn't reach double digits in tackles which guys like Ogletree and David never came near...

        Thats what i don't get, is if Brown is so much better then Ogletree, and Ogletrees not good at geting off blocks, why does he get way more tackles, way more TFL, more sacks, more everything? Wheres the benefit of whatever arthur brown is doing better then ogletree?

        Also, if hes as good as David, then whats the point of David making so many more plays, behind teh line and in coverege?

        WHy does Brown get all these accolades from you guys, when hes a undersized, non playmaking, dosen't rack up tackles like you would think, LB?

        The more i look into Arthur Brown, the less i like... I liked em alot untill really delving into video and production.. For a guy who played in everygame, he rarley impacted the game, and wasen't all over the field making tackles either...

        He only had 4 games of double digit tackles.. Lavonte David had like 10 or something... Ogletree had 7 and he missed 4games.. They also have more plays made as well, in covereg and behind the line.. I'm not getting why there in the same ball park to u guys? Is it what u guys think hes gonna turn into?
        Huge difference in line play, Ogletree benefits immensely from the players in front of him. If u watch a lot of Georgia u will see the bulk of Ogletree's plays are made by attacking an empty gap. When he gets 1 he comes flying through faster than every LB in the class and will blow up the play. Its very flashy and its easy to fall in love with because that kind of explosion is rare. Flip side of that is when he doesnt get a empty gap he is non existent on the play. He will avoid making contact with Olineman even to the point where he pulls himself out of position
        Im not saying this isnt correctable maybe when he puts more weight on or used to playing LB he will be comfortable filling the hole against lineman but right now that isnt his strength
        I really have no idea where Ogletree will get drafted his kind of physical ability is coveted
        Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-18-2013, 04:56 PM.

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        • #64
          I havent watched enough Ogletree to stand up for him or not....But athletic LBs usualy they avoid contact first because their used to making plays with their athletisim rather than taking blocks head up.....That can be fixed.......But if he gets bulldozed when its 1 on 1 block time, then thats something to worry about.......So somebody thats done their research comment on that...

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
            Huge difference in line play, Ogletree benefits immensely from the players in front of him. If u watch a lot of Georgia u will see the bulk of Ogletree's plays are made by attacking an empty gap. When he gets 1 he comes flying through faster than every LB in the class and will blow up the play. Its very flashy and its easy to fall in love with because that kind of explosion is rare. Flip side of that is when he doesnt get a empty gap he is non existent on the play. He will avoid making contact with Olineman even to the point where he pulls himself out of position
            Im not saying this isnt correctable maybe when he puts more weight on or used to playing LB he will be comfortable filling the hole against lineman but right now that isnt his strength
            I really have no idea where Ogletree will get drafted his kind of physical ability is coveted
            1. This isn't very accurate IMO. I'd recommend rewatching SECCG. I know you have already, but I could point out a number of plays where he sheds blocks or beats the blocker to make or effect plays... and that was against the best OL (by far) in CFB. He DEFINITELY didn't seem to be shying away from any contact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZy_y0on4u8 I could say the same for other games really (watch their matchup against Auburn). Not sure what film you're watching.
            2. A linebacker is suppose to be able to recognize open gaps and fill them. That's what I want a linebacker to do. People are always talking about instinctive players... that's good to an extent, but I want guys that know their assignments and play them. The reason Alabama's defense is so good is because they play disciplined gap assignements.. they don't just have guys flying over the field trying to make plays. With that said, in coverage and in making plays to the outside, I think Ogletree is very instinctive.
            3. UGA's front wasn't really all that impressive this year.. and I don't criticize a player for being able to avoid blocks. (not saying you are) With that said, UGA plays a 3-4. If he was doing so good because of the guys in front of him in UGA, wouldn't he benefit even more in a 4-3? Not that this matters cause I disagree that he is totally removed from plays when blocked.
            4. When there are LBs that are good at shedding blocks, you're gonna get a bunch of people saying they can't drop back into coverage and how that's what is most important.
            5. What makes Ogletree impressive isn't looking flashy shooting into gaps unblocked... it's stopping guys like Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon dead in their tracks by himself and catching speedsters like Onterio McCalleb from behind. Not to mention his ability to make open field tackles and drop into coverage well.
            6. As you mentioned, he is young and has a frame to bulk up. The problem is, as I mentioned, if he turns into some monster LB that tosses blockers aside, suddenly he doesn't fit our defense anymore because he can't play CB as well.

            I know you know your stuff, so take these as friendly alternative opinions.
            Last edited by BlueSabbath; 01-18-2013, 06:36 PM.
            2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

            Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
            Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
            Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
            Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
            Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
            Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
            Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

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            • #66
              [QUOTE=nycsportzfan;665051]What the GMEN should do is try and trade down and secure extra picks in this draft.. Like i said before, u got all these underclassmen declaring(now a record!) and 2teams missing picks in RD2(browns for Supplamental drafting of Josh Gordon and Saints for Bountygate)..
              /QUOTE]

              This....

              Moreover, when you describe a team that usually trades up, you are talking about a team that is relatively strong. Maybe a team that has few holes and is a piece or 2 away from contending for a ring. I do not believe we fit into that mold anymore.

              Like you, I believe we have multiple needs this offseason. More than last year and way more than the year before. I do not think we are a player or 2 away from contending again. We have aged overnight and we need an infusion of youth and enthusiasm. What I am saying is we fit the mold of a team that is more likely to trade back. We have multiple needs and some positions that need more competition from the young guys.
              sigpic

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              • #67
                Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
                1. This isn't very accurate IMO. I'd recommend rewatching SECCG. I know you have already, but I could point out a number of plays where he sheds blocks or beats the blocker to make or effect plays... and that was against the best OL (by far) in CFB. He DEFINITELY didn't seem to be shying away from any contact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZy_y0on4u8 I could say the same for other games really (watch their matchup against Auburn). Not sure what film you're watching.
                2. A linebacker is suppose to be able to recognize open gaps and fill them. That's what I want a linebacker to do. People are always talking about instinctive players... that's good to an extent, but I want guys that know their assignments and play them. The reason Alabama's defense is so good is because they play disciplined gap assignements.. they don't just have guys flying over the field trying to make plays. With that said, in coverage and in making plays to the outside, I think Ogletree is very instinctive.
                3. UGA's front wasn't really all that impressive this year.. and I don't criticize a player for being able to avoid blocks. (not saying you are) With that said, UGA plays a 3-4. If he was doing so good because of the guys in front of him in UGA, wouldn't he benefit even more in a 4-3? Not that this matters cause I disagree that he is totally removed from plays when blocked.
                4. When there are LBs that are good at shedding blocks, you're gonna get a bunch of people saying they can't drop back into coverage and how that's what is most important.
                5. What makes Ogletree impressive isn't looking flashy shooting into gaps unblocked... it's stopping guys like Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon dead in their tracks by himself and catching speedsters like Onterio McCalleb from behind. Not to mention his ability to make open field tackles and drop into coverage well.
                6. As you mentioned, he is young and has a frame to bulk up. The problem is, as I mentioned, if he turns into some monster LB that tosses blockers aside, suddenly he doesn't fit our defense anymore because he can't play CB as well.

                I know you know your stuff, so take these as friendly alternative opinions.
                Numerous times in that game he got blown up by a TE "Michael Williams great TE " and turns his back away from contact. Settling into a spot and making tackles 8 yards down field to me isnt a great play. Its not that I dont like Ogletree believe me I see all the good things he does as well.
                Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-18-2013, 08:44 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                  Numerous times in that game he got blown up by a TE and turns his back away from contact
                  Whatever, Put A Brown on the field against Alabama and see how he does. I know Kyle Long and the Oregon Oline made a ***** out of him in the Fiesta Bowl.

                  Two things can't be over looked here, Ogletree faced far greater competition in the SEC and out performed Brown who went up against alot of finnesse spread BIG 12 offenses. Ogletree's also two years younger then Brown who has far more experience at the Lb position

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                  • #69
                    [Former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah likens Georgia LB Alec Ogletree' game to Steelers ILB Lawrence Timmons.

                    Like Timmons, Ogletree is an explosive linebacker capable of playing inside and out. An inside 'backer by trade in Pittsburgh's 3-4, Timmons often starts at outside linebacker when James Harrison or LaMarr Woodley is injured. Jeremiah compares Ogletree to Timmons as a "bigger version" with explosive athleticism, but who struggles to take on blocks at the second level.

                    Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                      Numerous times in that game he got blown up by a TE "Michael Williams great TE " and turns his back away from contact. Settling into a spot and making tackles 8 yards down field to me isnt a great play. Its not that I dont like Ogletree believe me I see all the good things he does as well.
                      Thats the way it is with LB's.. THey don't blow through blocks every play , or the blockers blocking them just plain su-ck.. Its a team game, anyway u look at it, and as we seen with Bill Sheridan as are DC, if u have a cr-ap scheme and units not playing well, iwts going to affect the whole team..

                      HOnestly, i could throw a Arthur Brown tape up , and you'd see quite a few plays where hes blocked.. I mean, has a 228lb kid, who dosen't make a ton of plays and dosen't load up on the tackles, so hes obviously getting blocked or something on quite a few plays.. Its not like hes the only focal point of K.St's defnse either, they got some really nice players including Meshak Williams, who could be drafted anywhere from RD 4-7 as well..

                      It really dosen't matter what dline is in front of Ogletree, he played his bowl game without Jenkins, which u guys never mention, and was great, and theres a 1000 awesome Olineman in the SEC anyways, including Alabamas oline, in which Mel Kiper raved Ogletree was teh best defender on the field in that game, and its saying something..

                      Kiper also said, GA"s defense simply got better when Ogletree started playing..

                      The way the BIG12 plays offense, Arthur Brown should of made a he-ll of alot more impact plays, and tackles....

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                      • #71
                        Just watched some more tape of Ogletree and most of his failed tackles seem to be due to the lack of lower body strength like Redeye pointed out earlier but there were times during the SEC Championship that he made a goal line stand or crucial 3rd down stop like you would want our of your MLB. This guy can be something very special but I'd be cautious giving him too many snaps in an NFL defense in his rookie season. I could see him getting bullied against a run heavy team with his current build and lose confidence. I dunno...if I'm the coach, I put him on the field for more obvious passing downs and special teams in year 1 and then when he adds more weight for his sophomore year, let him compete for the starting job.

                        Brown looks like he can start on day 1 and make a solid contribution to a team that already has a decent front 7 though I just don't see future superstar in him. Slip said something about him starting in the middle earlier in the thread and I'd be curious what he saw in him to make that statement?

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                        • #72
                          I have been campaigning for this guy,,,it's good to see people coming around on him,,although he will be gone by pick 19 I fear.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by juice33s View Post
                            Whatever, Put A Brown on the field against Alabama and see how he does. I know Kyle Long and the Oregon Oline made a ***** out of him in the Fiesta Bowl.

                            Two things can't be over looked here, Ogletree faced far greater competition in the SEC and out performed Brown who went up against alot of finnesse spread BIG 12 offenses. Ogletree's also two years younger then Brown who has far more experience at the Lb position
                            I look at that TCU game as well.. Brown did nothing in that game, and TCU reminds me of a SEC team alot more then teams like Kansas, Ok st, Texas Tech, and all those other finesse teams do.. TCU litteraly shutdown Brown and made him as non factor as u can possibly be..

                            Lets watch that tape!!!!lol Again, i like Brown, but its pretty clear as day to why Ogletree is gonna get drafted ahead of him, in my opinion.. Ogletrees earned it...

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                              I look at that TCU game as well.. Brown did nothing in that game, and TCU reminds me of a SEC team alot more then teams like Kansas, Ok st, Texas Tech, and all those other finesse teams do.. TCU litteraly shutdown Brown and made him as non factor as u can possibly be..

                              Lets watch that tape!!!!lol Again, i like Brown, but its pretty clear as day to why Ogletree is gonna get drafted ahead of him, in my opinion.. Ogletrees earned it...
                              at the end of the day some guys that were beasts in college suck as pro's, and guys you thought had no chance turn out to be good players,,,you just can't tell,,even with college performances.

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                              • #75
                                Meh, odds are that with our Dline issues like the ends not generating consistent pressure and the lack of depth in the middle, the Giants will probably snatch up another mid round LBer again. I'm expecting Chase for 2013 once more and the FO hoping Williams and Rivers stay healthy.

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