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alec ogeltree vs. manti te'o vs. kasheem greene vs. arthur brown,jr.

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  • Carter.525
    replied
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    1st? Where have u seen Arthur Brown as a 1st rd prospect? I've seen em 2nd and early 3rd.. Hes a 2nd rd guy, who isn't going in RD1... Ogletrees a 1st rd guy , whos stock gonna fly when he goes to the combine...
    dont remember.. but I have seen Brown before at the end of the 1st..

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
    this is one guy Ive seen all over the place 1st, 2nd & 3rd.. I'd say 2nd
    1st? Where have u seen Arthur Brown as a 1st rd prospect? I've seen em 2nd and early 3rd.. Hes a 2nd rd guy, who isn't going in RD1... Ogletrees a 1st rd guy , whos stock gonna fly when he goes to the combine...

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Ur right everything isn't equal, Ogletree makes more plays, is more athletic, is inovled in more plays and will be more of a diffrence maker, which is what u want from ur early rd players. Not to mention, Ogletrees potential is through the roof, and hes all ready really good.. If its even close, the fact that Ogletree has seamlessly moved to LB and has little expierence there and is all ready very good, with high potential, is the deal breaker..

    U gotta be the only one slip who would debate Ogletree and Brown.. Ogletree is all ready a 1st rd talent as a jr, and would probably only have his stock grow if he went back to school, adn Brown is a 2nd rd, possibly early 3rd rd prospect as a SR...

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  • Carter.525
    replied
    Originally posted by Buddy333 View Post
    What round is Brown being projected at now?
    this is one guy Ive seen all over the place 1st, 2nd & 3rd.. I'd say 2nd

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  • Buddy333
    replied
    What round is Brown being projected at now?

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  • Shockeystays08
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
    A guy to keep an eye on a little later in the draft is Nico Johnson. 5* out of high school and had a solid but quiet career at Alabama (freshman All SEC). His biggest problems were the amount of talent surrounding him. I'm not convinced a guy like Minter would be that much better than Johnson and you could get him later. At Alabama he was more of a run stopping linebacker, while Mosley was more of a passing down LB but he still moves REALLY well for his size and rarely gets knocked back. Another guy I'd be REALLY happy to land.

    junior highlights:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBTRPyY5lw
    +1 You hit that nail on the head!

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  • slipknottin
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    Hence the MIKE has to cover more ground.
    But isnt the more important player. Just has to be able to drop deep.


    Urlacher is a much better LB than Briggs (over the course of their careers) and is much more integral to the Bears defense.
    Not really, they are comparable at the minimum. 7x probowl is pretty damn good.

    Chad Greenway is a SAM and I'm not sure you can make the case that he's better than E.J. Henderson was for that team at this point. E.J. Henderson certainly meant more to the Vikings than Greenway did.

    Cato June currently plays SAM as well (transitioned two years ago when he went to Tampa).

    And having a good WILL (or better WILL than MIKE) is not an indication of priority, but rather how your personnel choices worked out.
    They were all Weakside backers. Some teams flip the names, and a lot of teams their OLBs play both sides.


    I meant compared to Ogletree. All things being equal, who would you rather have at WILL ... the 6'3 guy or the 6'1 guy?
    Everything isnt equal. They are very different players. Brown is far more physical. And at weakside I dont care much if a guy is 6'1 or 6'3.



    Not sure he could play SAM. As you've pointed out, he's not strong enough at the point of attack. And nowhere do I see him listed larger than 225 lb (was 220 when drafted, and 215 throughout most of his college career).
    https://twitter.com/RVacchianoNYDN/s...52899025821696

    And while I like Arthur Brown on tape, odds are that he's not the next Derrick Brooks.
    Never said he would be. I was comparing physical size. There are a LOT of really good linebackers in the NFL who in the 6'1 235 range. Bowman- 6'0 and 240. Willis 6'1 240. Even Ray Lewis is 6'1 240. And if we are going to have an argument about Brown gaining like 5 pounds, thats not exactly significant.

    Keep in mind that I like both Brown and Ogletree. I just think Ogletree translates better than Brown and fills a potential need more.
    I think Ogletree is a projection. He is not physical enough or good enough with his hands to be a middle linebacker right now. Is that a skill he will acquire quickly with coaching? Im not so sure it is. Im not sure its a skill he could ever acquire at all.

    Brown is much more of a finished product. He still obviously has tons to learn, but he could step in week 1 and be an effective player.
    Last edited by slipknottin; 01-17-2013, 08:13 PM.

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Kruunch View Post
    Hence the MIKE has to cover more ground.



    Urlacher is a much better LB than Briggs (over the course of their careers) and is much more integral to the Bears defense.

    Chad Greenway is a SAM and I'm not sure you can make the case that he's better than E.J. Henderson was for that team at this point. E.J. Henderson certainly meant more to the Vikings than Greenway did.

    Cato June currently plays SAM as well (transitioned two years ago when he went to Tampa).

    And having a good WILL (or better WILL than MIKE) is not an indication of priority, but rather how your personnel choices worked out.


    I meant compared to Ogletree. All things being equal, who would you rather have at WILL ... the 6'3 guy or the 6'1 guy?



    Not sure he could play SAM. As you've pointed out, he's not strong enough at the point of attack. And nowhere do I see him listed larger than 225 lb (was 220 when drafted, and 215 throughout most of his college career).

    And while I like Arthur Brown on tape, odds are that he's not the next Derrick Brooks.

    Keep in mind that I like both Brown and Ogletree. I just think Ogletree translates better than Brown and fills a potential need more. Having said that, I thought Vontaze Burfict was going to be garbage and look how he's turning out. So I readily admit to being awful at judging college talent in translation.
    Ya, chances are hes more Jordan Dizon then he is Derrick Brooks...lol Nah, i really like Arthur Brown alot, but not when compared to Khaseem Greene and Alec Ogletree, or even Kevin Minter for thart matter..

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Again you go right to the stats like they prove anything.

    Watch him play. Watch how rarely any OL get to him.

    You keep anyone completely free most of the game up near the line and he will have huge numbers


    Ogletree will have to move to weakside and be well protected at least for awhile. If he can learn to play more physically, actually use his hands once in awhile, and gain weight, then he can be a mike.

    But he runs around like a zombie and he's fortunate to never have to fight through blockers.
    I have watched em play.. I've watched em one on one just dismantle Eddie Lacy at the goalline and pick up and drive TJ Yeldon into the ground 1on1... So what if he has to get alittle better at Shedding blocks, no ones perfect.. The guys got way much more going for em then Arhtur Brown does... Its not just stats.. Its athletic ability, its versatility, its frame to add weight, its playmaking ability, its everything! Ogletree is gonna be a stud in the NFL...

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  • BlueSabbath
    replied
    A guy to keep an eye on a little later in the draft is Nico Johnson. 5* out of high school and had a solid but quiet career at Alabama (freshman All SEC). His biggest problems were the amount of talent surrounding him. I'm not convinced a guy like Minter would be that much better than Johnson and you could get him later. At Alabama he was more of a run stopping linebacker, while Mosley was more of a passing down LB but he still moves REALLY well for his size and rarely gets knocked back. Another guy I'd be REALLY happy to land.

    junior highlights:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBTRPyY5lw

    Leave a comment:


  • Kruunch
    replied
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Both the Will and Mike get dropped the same. The mike just has a deeper drop, while the will has more responsibilities against the run.
    Hence the MIKE has to cover more ground.

    The will absolutely is more critical to have a great player.

    The bucs, bears, vikings, colts, etc. When they were running the Tampa 2 all had tremendous Will backers.

    Lance Briggs, Derrick brooks, chad Greenway, Cato June, etc. all are better than the middle backers on their teams apart from Briggs, though you could argue he is as good as Urlacher.
    Urlacher is a much better LB than Briggs (over the course of their careers) and is much more integral to the Bears defense.

    Chad Greenway is a SAM and I'm not sure you can make the case that he's better than E.J. Henderson was for that team at this point. E.J. Henderson certainly meant more to the Vikings than Greenway did.

    Cato June currently plays SAM as well (transitioned two years ago when he went to Tampa).

    And having a good WILL (or better WILL than MIKE) is not an indication of priority, but rather how your personnel choices worked out.

    As for being too short, Lets see

    Briggs - 6'1
    Greenway - 6'2
    Brooks - 6'0
    June - 6'0

    Arthur Brown is 6'1. So his size is not an issue in the least
    I meant compared to Ogletree. All things being equal, who would you rather have at WILL ... the 6'3 guy or the 6'1 guy?

    As for J Will. He is a weak side backer as well. But now that he is up to 230+ he could play some Sam. He already spends a lot of his time on the field matched up against TEs
    Not sure he could play SAM. As you've pointed out, he's not strong enough at the point of attack. And nowhere do I see him listed larger than 225 lb (was 220 when drafted, and 215 throughout most of his college career).

    And while I like Arthur Brown on tape, odds are that he's not the next Derrick Brooks.

    Keep in mind that I like both Brown and Ogletree. I just think Ogletree translates better than Brown and fills a potential need more. Having said that, I thought Vontaze Burfict was going to be garbage and look how he's turning out. So I readily admit to being awful at judging college talent in translation.
    Last edited by Kruunch; 01-17-2013, 12:12 PM.

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  • BlueSabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Alec Ogletree has a frame to add weight, and has extreme athletic ability(gurantee he destorys the combine for LB prospects), and makes more plays, lead his team in tackles despite missing 4games, has played Saftey before, which to me is a added plus, if for no other reason but to have more perspective on other positons on the field..etc This guy could easily be a 6ft 3in 240lb athletic playmaking machine in a yr or 2...

    If i'm picking a LB , its gotta go lke this

    Ogletree
    Greene
    Minter
    Brown
    Reddick/Hodges

    Thats the way i personally value the LB's...
    I would go:
    Ogletree


    Minter/Johnson
    Brown
    Reddick
    Greene/Porter

    *I'm still looking at Greene.. I'm not as familiar with him as I am some of these others... so he may move up as I watch his film. I'm VERY familiar with Ogletree, Minter and Brown. Been watching these guys since they first stepped onto a college field. I'll say this, with Brown sometimes you have to look for him in a game. With Ogletree, you don't have to look... he jumps out. With Minter, I wasn't really impressed with him until this year but he had a great year and turned out being a much better prospect than I thought he would. My guess is that he's going to measure out a lot slower than Ogletree than Brown.
    Last edited by BlueSabbath; 01-17-2013, 01:32 PM.

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  • slipknottin
    replied
    Again you go right to the stats like they prove anything.

    Watch him play. Watch how rarely any OL get to him.

    You keep anyone completely free most of the game up near the line and he will have huge numbers


    Ogletree will have to move to weakside and be well protected at least for awhile. If he can learn to play more physically, actually use his hands once in awhile, and gain weight, then he can be a mike.

    But he runs around like a zombie and he's fortunate to never have to fight through blockers.

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Hence why Ogletree has missed 4games and flew up draft boards and into almost guranteed 1st rd status and ahead of Arthur Brown in the blink of a e eye, and hes only a jr! Trust me, it isn't all potential, or were talking 3rd rd at best, see Jelani Jenkins, this kids earned his grade, and yes, when u put in the fact hes doing what hes doing while playing a new positon and producing like he has all ready with that immense upside, its a no brainer... Ogletree is a better prospect then Arthur Brown...

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  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    I'm still just not convinced with ogletree. He has upside. But he is not a middle backer in the nfl right now. He's light, he plays light, he can't shed.

    It's completely a potential project pick with ogletree.
    Hes freaking 6ft 3in 232lbs dude! I mean, obviously with that frame and athletic ability, gaining 5-10lbs should be of no issue, while maintaining his athletic ability, and he is in on like every play. He avg'd more tackles per game then Brown, he made more sacks then brown, he defended more passes then brown, and all this while missing 4games in the rugged SEC... Ogletree gets to face beast running backs on a weekly basis with ridiculous offensive lineman and comes out making plays and tackles left and right... Brown has faced ACC and BIG12 RB's and olineman, who are very good, but no match for the SEC teams... I like what Ogletree has going for em, much more then Brown.. I like what Ogletree has accomplished while missing 4games more then what Brown has.. And to be honest, it comes down to what u do on the field more then anything.. Ogletree is more of a diffrence maker then maybe any other LB in this draft, thats fit for a 4/3 defense...

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