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  • rainierjef
    started a topic Senior Bowl Thread

    Senior Bowl Thread

    Just a place to compare post notes.
    Who are you looking at today
    who impresses you

    I am going to be looking at Ansah, S.Taylor, JJ Wilcox, and Cyprein as just a couple names.




    Edti. If there is a similar thread srry.

  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Guess you don't get my point.

    I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

    Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

    So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.
    Bruce Cambell only rose with the media. Media and NFL Scouts are different things. Cambell didnt get drafted where the media said he went 4th round

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSanta
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Guess you don't get my point.

    I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

    Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

    So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.
    JPP is actually a very good counter because he was exactly what you described, a guy who stock soared AFTER the season was over. Many of the other guys I mentioned fit this mold as well. Several more come to mind.

    You like to make generalized statements and apply then to specific situations, go ahead. I prefer to look at each kid for what he is.

    Leave a comment:


  • TCHOF
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
    I try not to apply generalized statements to individual situations. Because if you do, someone throws a perfect counter point example in your face. Much like I did with JPP.


    Sometimes offseason risers rise for good reason. Multiple recent example come to mind:

    JPP, Doug Martin, Christian Ponder, JJ Watt and many more.....

    You have to look at every player individually rather than rule out someone because of some vague rule of thumb.
    Guess you don't get my point.

    I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

    Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

    So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.
    Last edited by TCHOF; 01-31-2013, 01:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • nycsportzfan
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills.
    Really, none of it matters with underclassmen invloved.. Becasue so many of those underclassmen are either 1st rd picks or at least better then where there ranked now, assuming they raised there stocks had they gone back to school, so so many times ur getting guys that would be 1st rd picks and possibly top 10picks(look at Joeckl's rise this yr) a yr early is all.. Look at Barkley, he'd of been a top 5pick last yr, and goes back to school, and now hes possibly not even a 1st rder.. So if he did go last yr and was taken 5th or 6th overall or something like that, that team would of taken a guy who if only a yr later would of been possibly not even a 1st rder..

    My point is, its so hard to tell whos the better prospects and why alot of teams simply go with "there" guy, regardless of ranking..

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueSanta
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Do you disagree with my premise that you should be wary of such off-season risers?
    I try not to apply generalized statements to individual situations. Because if you do, someone throws a perfect counter point example in your face. Much like I did with JPP.


    Sometimes offseason risers rise for good reason. Multiple recent example come to mind:

    JPP, Doug Martin, Christian Ponder, JJ Watt and many more.....

    You have to look at every player individually rather than rule out someone because of some vague rule of thumb.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mlerman17
    replied
    Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    Goes both ways to I think there are a few overrated guys that these mocks will say are falling but they arent the player they are being projected. Damontre Moore isnt a Top 5 pick. All last year I said he was an underrated player now he is way overrated truth is he shouldnt go before pick 15 maybe later
    Lol I completely agree. Btw kipper had Moore going like second overall to the jags. He is way overrated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up.
    Goes both ways to I think there are a few overrated guys that these mocks will say are falling but they arent the player they are being projected. Damontre Moore isnt a Top 5 pick. All last year I said he was an underrated player now he is way overrated truth is he shouldnt go before pick 15 maybe later

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
    Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up.
    These postseason events give media easier access to scouts as well

    Leave a comment:


  • slipknottin
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Not really saying that it is cut and dry. Just saying to be wary. There certainly could be legitimate explanations for an offseason rise, like you have pointed out.
    Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up.

    Leave a comment:


  • TCHOF
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
    It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills.
    Not really saying that it is cut and dry. Just saying to be wary. There certainly could be legitimate explanations for an offseason rise, like you have pointed out.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheEnigma
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . .
    It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills.

    Leave a comment:


  • TCHOF
    replied
    Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    The only thing with that is In my personal rankings for instance I have watched more games of some guys than others so when I catch up over the off season my rankings will change. Its physically impossibe for me to watch all the games during the season. I watch most of the games in fact when the season is over. Same thing with the guys doing the mock drafts. Also postseason performances shed light on some guys that werent focused on as much during the season. People than go back and look at more of the games. Jacquian Williams for instance. I knew the name but it wasnt till after the Giants drafted him I went back and looked at him more closely and was upset I missed him. There are so many teams and so many games its easy for guys to slip through the cracks. I wont miss players from the SEC or Top 25 programs because they are on TV all the team I watch them consistently during the season. Its easy to miss guys from the smaller conferences or even the Big East if u only watch them 2 or 3 times during the season. Also the grades between guys in the draft 25-45 arent all that different a guy moving around from that range or even 3rd to 2nd round isnt that much of a move really.
    This makes sense. Something I hadn't thought of.

    Leave a comment:


  • TCHOF
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
    You mean like JPP?
    Do you disagree with my premise that you should be wary of such off-season risers?

    Leave a comment:


  • Redeyejedi
    replied
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
    Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . .
    The only thing with that is In my personal rankings for instance I have watched more games of some guys than others so when I catch up over the off season my rankings will change. Its physically impossibe for me to watch all the games during the season. I watch most of the games in fact when the season is over. Same thing with the guys doing the mock drafts. Also postseason performances shed light on some guys that werent focused on as much during the season. People than go back and look at more of the games. Jacquian Williams for instance. I knew the name but it wasnt till after the Giants drafted him I went back and looked at him more closely and was upset I missed him. There are so many teams and so many games its easy for guys to slip through the cracks. I wont miss players from the SEC or Top 25 programs because they are on TV all the team I watch them consistently during the season. Its easy to miss guys from the smaller conferences or even the Big East if u only watch them 2 or 3 times during the season. Also the grades between guys in the draft 25-45 arent all that different a guy moving around from that range or even 3rd to 2nd round isnt that much of a move really.
    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 01-30-2013, 08:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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