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  • #16
    Originally posted by juice33s View Post
    Agreed, with the way the Giants play 4 DE's on passing downs, I don't think it's necassary to have a pass rushing 3 tech. The best run defense of the modern era (2000 Ravens) featured two space eating DT's (Siragusa, Adams) in their 4/3
    Well if that's the case, then would Jesse Williams or John Jenkins be there in round 2? Because drafting Ogletree in round 1 and having him protected by 2 mammoths like Linval and Jenkins would be the foundations of a great front 7.

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    • #17
      Kwaan Short has some major questions about his motor and playing every down. Richardson for is on the smaller end for DT at 295 pounds and just had major shoulder surgery. You want a 3 tech guy thats what Marvin Austin is being groomed for. But if you wanna stop the run you gotta get a young Run stuffer who you can groom and develope. Look at the Raven even now. You have Ngata and Cody as DT's both 340lbs plus able to rip thru Double teams and crush ball carriers. I believe Jesse Williams or John Jenkins even Kwame Gathers would be good picks for the Giants. Bleacher Report has Jesse Williams as the best pure NT in this years draft when it comes to stuffing the run and they also believe him to be the hardest hitting DT/NT in the draft. Plus he has the ability to play the other techniques on the Dline. I just think Williams from Bama is gonna really move up draft boards come the combine. He may not even make it to the Giants.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by WiIdcat View Post
        Well if that's the case, then would Jesse Williams or John Jenkins be there in round 2? Because drafting Ogletree in round 1 and having him protected by 2 mammoths like Linval and Jenkins would be the foundations of a great front 7.
        I'm not so sure a run stuffing DT warrants a top 2 round selection in todays NFL. These guys aren't everydown players and I think the value more fits in the 3-5 round area

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rawdog550 View Post
          Giants need a BIG run stuffer!!!!!! I don't see Richardson or Short being enough. I honestly think Jesse Williams from Bama is the guy the Giants need. One he is strongest guy in this draft. He was said to be benching 600lbs!!!! He takes on Double teams and breaks thru them. He can collapse the pocket and take down the runner in the backfield. He is versatile enough to play any technique along the DL. Run stuffing is what he does best which is what the Giants need the most. He is quick off the snap and has good speed running 4.75 40's at 325-330 lbs. Keep an eye on this kid his stock is going to rise come the combine and once its over. Unless people here think Sean Rodgers is the answer to the Giants crappy run defense we need to draft a Pure Run stop DT/NT. I believe Jesse Williams is the guy.
          but what does he squat?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by giants8493 View Post
            but what does he squat?
            I dont know what he squats but they say he is by far physically the strongest player in this draft Jesse Williams is. I'm just trying to point out he has the ability to be more than just a Run stuffer he has speed as well.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by juice33s View Post
              Agreed, with the way the Giants play 4 DE's on passing downs, I don't think it's necassary to have a pass rushing 3 tech. The best run defense of the modern era (2000 Ravens) featured two space eating DT's (Siragusa, Adams) in their 4/3
              They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

              And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.
              Last edited by slipknottin; 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

                And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.
                Thats Marvin Austin!!!!!! He was drafted to be that pass rushing DT and he is going to have to pick his game up. They still need a run stuffing DT out of this draft. You wanna depend on Sean Rodgers who may not get thru pre season due to his health. As a Giant fan I dont wanna depend on Sean Rodgers for my run stuffing all year he isn't likely to play the entire season. He will end up on IR!!! You need a young big bodied Run stuffer and a good ILB. There are a few good ILB out there in FA that could fit the bill.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                  They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

                  And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.
                  No, they went Nascar because they had thorough breds in the barn and it would be silly not to get them all on the field at the same when ever reasonably possible.

                  Whose the best pass rushing 3tech of all time? John Randle, Warren Sapp?....Let me ask you this, on a team with Dwight Freeney, Lawerence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce smith or any other combination of 4 good to great/versatle D-ends, would Randle and Sapp get on the field on obvious pass rushing situations?

                  I would say no, with that roster I'd go Freeney and Taylor on the edges with Smith and White coming up the middle

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by juice33s View Post
                    Whose the best pass rushing 3tech of all time? John Randle, Warren Sapp?....Let me ask you this, on a team with Dwight Freeney, Lawerence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce smith or any other combination of 4 good to great/versatle D-ends, would Randle and Sapp get on the field on obvious pass rushing situations?
                    Absolutely. Nobody would take a 4-3 DE inside vs. a JJ Watt or Geno Atkins.

                    DEs are not great inside pass rushers. Giants did it because they had far better pass rushers at DE than DTs, plus they had to try to find a way to get those guys on the field.


                    And Reggie White was 300+ pounds, he was an actual DT for a lot of his career.

                    Theres a reason there are more DTs in the HoF than DEs, and a reason Sapp made it over Strahan.
                    Last edited by slipknottin; 02-09-2013, 09:30 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                      Absolutely. Nobody would take a 4-3 DE inside vs. a JJ Watt or Geno Atkins.

                      DEs are not great inside pass rushers. Giants did it because they had far better pass rushers at DE than DTs, plus they had to try to find a way to get those guys on the field.


                      And Reggie White was 300+ pounds, he was an actual DT for a lot of his career.

                      Theres a reason there are more DTs in the HoF than DEs, and a reason Sapp made it over Strahan.
                      Well technically Watt is a defensive end so....As for White, he was an ACTUAL DE for pretty much his ENTIRE career and lastly you're comparing Sapp a guy who is perhaps the greatest ever at his position to Strahan who was great, but wouldn't be in that category.

                      Also there maybe more DT's in the HOF then DE's, but it certainly isn't because they're better pass rushers

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by juice33s View Post
                        Well technically Watt is a defensive end so....As for White, he was an ACTUAL DE for pretty much his ENTIRE career and lastly you're comparing Sapp a guy who is perhaps the greatest ever at his position to Strahan who was great, but wouldn't be in that category.

                        Also there maybe more DT's in the HOF then DE's, but it certainly isn't because they're better pass rushers
                        Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

                        There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

                        But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                          Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

                          There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

                          But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push.
                          Right, a 5tech which is a 3/4 DE, you were arguing for a 4/3 3 tech. And now you want to discredit a philosophy that accounted for more sacks then any other NFL team in the 5 year span between 2007-2011, (Also won us 2 superbowls), because of one down year??...Not to mention the fact that now that Osi is out of the picture you think the best way to retool the pass rush is a DT and not an edge rusher???
                          Last edited by juice33s; 02-10-2013, 12:55 AM.

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                          • #28
                            34 5T ends translate to 43 3T DTs. I don't think he's saying he prefers one of the other as the Giants line was optimal when they got pressure from both the interior and ends, like SB42 where Giants pressured the interior with their tackles and a healthy Tuck. The Giants only had only one consistent pass rusher from the interior last year which was Canty who started on PUP.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

                              There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

                              But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push.
                              The best Ive seen this defense since the 1st Superbowl was 2008 at the start of the season when Fred Robbins was unstoppable.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by penguinfarmer;682082[B
                                ]34 5T ends translate to 43 3T DTs[/B]. I don't think he's saying he prefers one of the other as the Giants line was optimal when they got pressure from both the interior and ends, like SB42 where Giants pressured the interior with their tackles and a healthy Tuck. The Giants only had only one consistent pass rusher from the interior last year which was Canty who started on PUP.
                                Not really, Warren Sapp (Perhaps the greatest 3tech of all time) sucked as a 5T when he went to Oakland. If Watt were on the Giants he'd be a LDE who kicks inside on passing downs. But basically Watt is a freak who could play pretty much any position in any scheme on the Dline

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