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  • #16
    Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
    Hate to say I told you guys so...lol.

    Nah but really I agree with Arthur Brown being the best LB in the draft (excl. Jones). I disagree that there is THAT much of a difference between Brown and Ogletree, but Brown is a clear winner IMO. Both will have success because of athletic / 3 down ability.

    I also agree with his assessment of Hodges. PSU fan here and I really think Hodges is small, soft and totally overrated. I heard from an insider that he barely played at 220 this year and is trying to bulk up fast for the combine.
    You told us what? All I remember you saying is, "Giants should consider all options in pursuit of Te'o, he is rare"....Regardless of what else you said, I don't think a secratary's opinion does very much to validate anything

    Also, sorry to redeye for another dig at your boy, I'm sure he's a great guy and all, i just want to make sure people understand Vince Lombardi didn't exactly write this article
    Last edited by juice33s; 02-11-2013, 11:12 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by juice33s View Post
      You told us what? All I remember you saying is, "Giants should consider all options in pursuit of Te'o, he is rare"....Regardless of what else you said, I don't think a secratary's opinion does very much to validate anything

      Also, sorry to redeye for another dig at your boy, I'm sure he's a great guy and all, i just want to make sure people understand Vince Lombardi didn't exactly write this article
      I cant deny that I was high on Teo before the bowl and shortly thereafter. Check out my mock from about 20+ days ago and you'll see my pick of brown at 19th overall. Guy is quickly rising and I bet word gets out that teams are considering him in the 1st following the combine.

      No need to be so damn serious anyways man, "told you so" was a little joke. Breathe!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
        My point is his negatives are valid even if I do believe he is knocking him 2 much for the negatives.
        Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

        Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
          Hate to say I told you guys so...lol.

          Nah but really I agree with Arthur Brown being the best LB in the draft (excl. Jones). I disagree that there is THAT much of a difference between Brown and Ogletree, but Brown is a clear winner IMO. Both will have success because of athletic / 3 down ability.

          I also agree with his assessment of Hodges. PSU fan here and I really think Hodges is small, soft and totally overrated. I heard from an insider that he barely played at 220 this year and is trying to bulk up fast for the combine.

          +1 I love brown. Just wish he was a little bigger. Kid jumps out on tape

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          • #20
            Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
            Slip wrote this article haha.

            Being serious though, Ogletree should be in a higher tier just based on his athletic potential alone.
            Also, his production, how good his teams defense improved once he returned, and his playmaking ability.. Theres a reason the guy is mostly consensusly ranked in RD1 despite missing 4games this past season and playing a positon that most of the time isn't considered 1st rd quality, unless ur a special player...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ELIte4MVP View Post
              +1 I love brown. Just wish he was a little bigger. Kid jumps out on tape
              Not really.. He dosen't make enough plays, and isn't really a tackle machine either.. Add in the fact hes somewhat undersized, and i really don't get the hype? I liked em alot more till i really delved in more on em.. Khaseem Greene is a much better prospect in m opinon.. Seems more stout and NFL prototype look to em, as well as more productive and involved...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
                I cant deny that I was high on Teo before the bowl and shortly thereafter. Check out my mock from about 20+ days ago and you'll see my pick of brown at 19th overall. Guy is quickly rising and I bet word gets out that teams are considering him in the 1st following the combine.

                No need to be so damn serious anyways man, "told you so" was a little joke. Breathe!
                My bad bruh, I just enjoy a good old fashion fiery debate

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by juice33s View Post
                  My bad bruh, I just enjoy a good old fashion fiery debate
                  All good man.

                  I've been pretty tough on Ogletree. I get why a lot of people like him around here. Sometimes he flies around the field and makes a great play, but other times he seems to be very hesitant. I also think he keeps his pads too high and he could get abused in the run game at the next level.

                  All in all I don't think any one prospect offers everything, but Brown looks the part to me(he'll add 10lbs of muscle in no time). And I think we can all agree that JR has been posturing us in such a way that we'll get our flashy LB in the draft this year.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                    Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

                    Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?
                    My thing with Earl Thomas was systems that used safeties interchangeably I didnt think he would be as effective. I remember saying Earl Thomas in a Cover 1 heavy defense that lets him play deep would work very well for him. Now lets see where did Earl Thomas go, to a team that uses him exactly like that.

                    They all have weaknesses they are not infallible LB's just seem to be the topic all the time.. If I didnt point out weaknesses what kind of discussions would be available. You would be left with this guy is good and that guy is bad that would be mindless and boring.
                    The thing that bothers me with Ogletree and it happens a lot is if a lineman or TE is coming at him he will turn his back and retreat and let the guy get 6 extra yards before making a tackle. Now pointing this out doesnt make me dislike him as a prospect and its not a personnel attack. Now the positives with Ogletree I think weigh out over the negatives but a MLB that has trouble shedding is trouble.
                    Now even though he has this weakness it doesnt mean u cant overcome them. He can improve which is likely. There are also ways to minimize weaknesses and that is the coaches job. Just like Carrol minimizes Thomas weakness and emphasizing his positives by playing him Single high and letting his range and ball skills shape games
                    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 02-12-2013, 10:11 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                      Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

                      Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?
                      Id said ANsah isnt flexible and is not an edge rusher that sounds like negatives to me. Mingo has many flaws. He has trouble translating speed to power, has problems finishing plays 2. U guys are just always talking about LB's on this board
                      Last edited by Redeyejedi; 02-12-2013, 03:17 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                        My thing with Earl Thomas was systems that used safeties interchangeably I didnt think he would be as effective. I remember saying Earl Thomas in a Cover 1 heavy defense that lets him play deep would work very well for him. Now lets see where did Earl Thomas go, hmm to a team that uses him exactly like that.U get so attached to these players for some reason. They have weaknesses they are not infallible. If I didnt point out weaknesses what kind of discussions would be available. You would be left with this guy is good and that guy is bad that would be mindless and boring. The thing that bothers me with Ogletree and it happens a lot is if a lineman or TE is coming at him he will turn his back and retreat and let the guy get 6 extra yards before making a tackle. Now pointing this out doesnt make me dislike him as a prospect and its not a personnel attack. The negatives for Arthur Brown is that he cant make the plays that Alec Ogletree can. The positives with Ogletree "although I disagree with how instictual he is" I think weigh out over the negatives but a MLB that has trouble shedding is trouble. Now there are ways to minimize weaknesses and thats coaches jobs. Just like Carrol minimizes Thomas weakness and emphasizing his positives by playing him Single high and letting his range and ball skills shape games
                        I completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mlerman17 View Post
                          I completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO.
                          I think at worst with Ogletree u get a really good WLB which isnt really the the worst thing to have happen. If the Giants got Ogletree Id love to see them draft another monster DT to play on early downs in front of him. When u keep lineman off him he is destructive

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                            Not really.. He dosen't make enough plays, and isn't really a tackle machine either.. Add in the fact hes somewhat undersized, and i really don't get the hype? I liked em alot more till i really delved in more on em.. Khaseem Greene is a much better prospect in m opinon.. Seems more stout and NFL prototype look to em, as well as more productive and involved...
                            Disagree with more stout Brown stacks and sheds much better than Greene. Straight Tackle numbers are meaningless.U cant compare straight numbers like that and say A is better than B it doesnt work. For example Rutgers as a team had 105 more tackles than KSU. Georgia had almost 240 more credited tackles a team. So many factors go into raw data like that . How about this Player A has 10 plays ran in his gap and makes 7 tackles misses 3. Player B has 4 plays at him and makes 4 tackles , Did player A play better than player B, 7-4 ? Im not even comparing Greene and Brown or 1 is better than the other just in general .
                            Last edited by Redeyejedi; 02-13-2013, 06:27 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mlerman17 View Post
                              I completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO.
                              I've seen him take on Runners in the hole many times.. He just so happens to have the ability to catch RB's from behind, which most MLB's simply can't do, so it might look that way to some.. Sure, he gets swallowed up by monster Olineman, just as most 230lb LB's do from time to time, but his overall upside, playmaking ability, athletic ability, possible versatility, past expierence at S(can only help), is way to much to pass up.. He also isn't affraid to lay a big hit, which i've seen em do on multiple occasions... Ogletree is a fantastic prospect!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                                Disagree with more stout Brown stacks and sheds much better than Greene. Straight Tackle numbers are meaningless.U cant compare straight numbers like that and say A is better than B it doesnt work. For example Rutgers as a team had 105 more tackles than KSU. Georgia had almost 240 more credited tackles a team. So many factors go into raw data like that . How about this Player A has 10 plays ran in his gap and makes 7 tackles misses 3. Player B has 4 plays at him and makes 4 tackles , Did player A play better than player B, 7-4 ? Im not even comparing Greene and Brown or 1 is better than the other just in general .
                                Its not just tackles at all.. I'm 100pct on getting playmakers on our defense, which is clearly what we lacked and have for the most part even during our championship runs, outside of some sack artists.. Guys who have a knack for making plays and football instincts are the way to go, every day of every wk..

                                U can go look at timed 40's and all this, but when u watch a guy like Khaseem Greene, u can just tell hes a diffrence maker.. Hes got the measurables as well... Basically hes really good at the game of football and is physical enough and big enough to continue that in the NFL... This team needs guys who have great instincts and playmaking ability.. Guys who will make a diffrence while not showing extreme weaknesses in other aspects of the game, which i don't think Greene really has.. Hes good enough against the run, and isn't gonna embaress u in pass coverege, and hes fast enough and strong enough to get to the QB on blitzes.. Thats the kinda players this team needs..

                                To be honest, i woulden't be mad i f the giants went Ogletree and Greene in the 1st 2rds... I think there gonna make that kinda impact on whos ever defense they play for...

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