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  • #16
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    I have no issue with floyd, but totally agree that Short is the better prospect and its almost comical that Floyd is consensus to most over Floyd.. Maybe Floyd is stronger, maybe not, but Short is better playmaker, penetrator, and ST ace then Floyd.. Floyd has not exceled to even remotley the way Short did, and Floyd had much better talent all around em as well... Short did his damage with next to nothing on the Dline this past season, prooving having Kerrigan around was not why he was good..
    I disagree he had nothing there will be a 2014 DE Ryan Russel i will be covering but yes Florida is better. Short is definitely not a better penetrator. Floyds quickness and ability to effect plays with his athleticism is much higher. I know u will point to his stats but when I look at both players in a vacuum. Who is quicker,better agility,better closing speed its Floyd. Also u have to remember that Floyd is only 20 while Short is 24. Im not saying Floyd is a perfect prospect he has holes. Id like to see him finish some more of the plays he impacts. He has to play lower it hurts him when trying to play the run
    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 02-19-2013, 12:37 PM.

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    • #17
      Issue is you have different types of DTs on that list. So it would depend what you are looking for.

      Jessie Williams for instance would be a great 0 or 1 tech, while Richardson is pure 3 tech.

      It's like asking which is a better LB on a list with pass rushers and non pass rushers

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      • #18
        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
        Issue is you have different types of DTs on that list. So it would depend what you are looking for.

        Jessie Williams for instance would be a great 0 or 1 tech, while Richardson is pure 3 tech.

        It's like asking which is a better LB on a list with pass rushers and non pass rushers
        It can be flipped upside down on what your looking for . If u want a 2 gap NT Sheldon Richardson isnt the guy, its Hankins. If u want a gap shooting 3 tech Richardson or Floyd are the best 2 . If u want to run a hybrid scheme Jessie Williams would fit well as he experience all over the place

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
          It can be flipped upside down on what your looking for . If u want a 2 gap NT Sheldon Richardson isnt the guy, its Hankins. If u want a gap shooting 3 tech Richardson or Floyd are the best 2 . If u want to run a hybrid scheme Jessie Williams would fit well as he experience all over the place
          Exactly. The question should be who is the best fit for this team or this position

          The giants, in my opinion, need a 3 tech the most. Linval is a very solid 1 tech.

          Tampa 2 scheme historically needs a somewhat undersized DT who is a pure penetrator.

          Sapp, Tommie Harris, Gerald McCoy, etc. someone in the 6'1-6'4 range and around 300 pounds.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
            Exactly. The question should be who is the best fit for this team or this position

            The giants, in my opinion, need a 3 tech the most. Linval is a very solid 1 tech.

            Tampa 2 scheme historically needs a somewhat undersized DT who is a pure penetrator.

            Sapp, Tommie Harris, Gerald McCoy, etc. someone in the 6'1-6'4 range and around 300 pounds.
            If they really want to run a Tampa 2 then I hope they go out and get the pieces to make it work. Realistically they need to upgrade 4 spots. 3 tech,WLB,MLB, another CB. They may be able to get by with Webster and Jwill but they would need to get a 3 tech and MLB without a doubt

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            • #21
              Well the pattern to date has been to run Joseph as a 2 or 3 tech and Canty (or Bernard/Kuhn) as a 1 or 2 tech.

              If we're replacing Canty with this draft, presumably we'd go that route. However I'd say the only DT we'd definitely stay away from is a pure 0 tech (your 3-4 NT).

              The differences between a 1, 2 and 3 tech DT are more about defensive alignment than player specialization (some notable historical exceptions aside).

              I would guess that most NFL teams will see the following as pure 0 tech prospects:

              1) Star Lotulelei (although he can probably play any DT position due to his athleticism)
              2) Jesse Williams (has moved from DE to 0 tech ... doubt he goes back)
              3) Jonathan Hankins (doesn't have the motor for a 3-tech)
              4) John Jenkins (the DC who doesn't play this guy as a NT should be fired)

              Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd would be my top prospects in that list (assuming Star is off the board of course).

              There's a better than even shot that both of those guys are off the boards with our first pick, so I'm thinking CB in the first and someone like Kwann Short in the second or Sylvester Williams in the 3rd.
              Last edited by Kruunch; 02-19-2013, 03:36 PM.
              I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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              • #22
                Looking at the guys listed. I don't see Richardson falling to the Giants nor am I really high on him. He is undersized and does not have the power to get thru NFL sized Lineman. Floyd who is a stud I also don't think will make it to the Giants at 19. But he is a better DT than Richardson IMO. Then you are left with Williams,Sly,Jenkins,Short and Hankins.

                I think the Giants need versatility in the interior of the D line. The only 2 guys who can bring that versatility is Jesse Williams and Johnathan Hankins. Now I am not real high on Hankins but I do believe he can become a force in the NFL. Williams I think could be perfect especially since the Giants were god awful at stopping the run at the point of attack which is the line. Jenkins from Georgia could work if the Giants can get him adapted to a 4-3 system. Short is a def possibility has the power good size and motor. Sly from North Carolina im not sold on.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                  I disagree he had nothing there will be a 2014 DE Ryan Russel i will be covering but yes Florida is better. Short is definitely not a better penetrator. Floyds quickness and ability to effect plays with his athleticism is much higher. I know u will point to his stats but when I look at both players in a vacuum. Who is quicker,better agility,better closing speed its Floyd. Also u have to remember that Floyd is only 20 while Short is 24. Im not saying Floyd is a perfect prospect he has holes. Id like to see him finish some more of the plays he impacts. He has to play lower it hurts him when trying to play the run
                  I believe nyc sportz fan was right on. Look at the below film, Short has the same closing speed, i mean the guy stopped denard robinson one of the faster QB's in football. Age and Potential Floyd has that advantage, but Production "agility,better closing speed". I mean these guys are both monsters, but i beleive Floyd is even bigger so i doubt he is the more athletic of the two. Floyd to me is in the Sylvester Williams UNC class. Similar Size, technique with Floyds closing speed slightly better, but not much production to show for it.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C46Qtrta47g

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                  • #24
                    for those questioning Short's athleticism..check out this Amazing athletic dunk by a 300+ pound guy..kawaan can ball lol

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDOmUQhcTWo

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BlessedinBlue22 View Post
                      I believe nyc sportz fan was right on. Look at the below film, Short has the same closing speed, i mean the guy stopped denard robinson one of the faster QB's in football. Age and Potential Floyd has that advantage, but Production "agility,better closing speed". I mean these guys are both monsters, but i beleive Floyd is even bigger so i doubt he is the more athletic of the two. Floyd to me is in the Sylvester Williams UNC class. Similar Size, technique with Floyds closing speed slightly better, but not much production to show for it.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C46Qtrta47g
                      I think its pretty evident Floyd is more athletic. I dont even think thats debatable. Lets think about it if Short was more athletic than Floyd why wouldnt Short be the 1 being discussed in the Top 10. I think Shorts a good player. More stout against the run and has a well rounded game
                      Last edited by Redeyejedi; 02-19-2013, 08:43 PM.

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                      • #26
                        would Jesse Williams work with Linval Joseph..?

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                        • #27
                          There are plenty of decent DTs in FA I think he will go that way!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
                            would Jesse Williams work with Linval Joseph..?
                            Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                              Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run
                              I'm good with that.. need to add some beef in the middle

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Captain Chaos View Post
                                There are plenty of decent DTs in FA I think he will go that way!
                                Why would a cap-strapped team that needs a DT bypass the position in a draft year that is deep in the position?
                                I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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