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If Barkevious Mingo was there at 19 would you take him?

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  • #31
    Mingo is almost certainly gonna be drafted as a 34 OLB. He is the 2nd rated 34 OLB in this draft and would be rated much lower as a 43 end. His speed/quickness is amazing but he lacks the strength and that doesnt bode well for him as a 43 DE. There is a reason this kid has refused to do bench press this offseason. I have also read some of his interviews at the combine may not have gone well, but that is just rumor.

    I just think with all the 34 teams needing passrushers, he is gonna end up with them.

    If we did pick him I think we would have to get creative in how we use him and he would be a situational player until he could get some bulk and strength.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
      Mingo is almost certainly gonna be drafted as a 34 OLB. He is the 2nd rated 34 OLB in this draft and would be rated much lower as a 43 end. His speed/quickness is amazing but he lacks the strength and that doesnt bode well for him as a 43 DE. There is a reason this kid has refused to do bench press this offseason. I have also read some of his interviews at the combine may not have gone well, but that is just rumor.

      I just think with all the 34 teams needing passrushers, he is gonna end up with them.

      If we did pick him I think we would have to get creative in how we use him and he would be a situational player until he could get some bulk and strength.
      No reason he coulden't play SLB in a 4/3.. Hes plenty athletic enough , and if Kiwanuka can play SLB, i would think Mingo would be just fine there, and more of a overall playmaker at the positon as well...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
        No reason he coulden't play SLB in a 4/3.. Hes plenty athletic enough , and if Kiwanuka can play SLB, i would think Mingo would be just fine there, and more of a overall playmaker at the positon as well...
        This 100%. He would be a huge upgrade over Kiwi and no one is saying play him at full time DE. Use him as a SAM and then as a situational edge rusher (which is a massive need). My ideal draft is getting Mingo and then Greene in round 2. I know a lot of people don't but I personally think Greene could play MLB in the NFL and develop very well. At worst he will play WILL and Jacquian Williams will be a nickel package guy and great depth. With those two picks are LBs are massively upgraded with playmakers and we help fix the pass rush. It's a no brainier to me if Mingo is there; not to mention how he'd help us with the read option which we will see a ton.
        Last edited by DarceChoke; 03-29-2013, 09:42 AM.

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        • #34
          I think I'd have to pick up a Mingo jersey though.. just sounds cool

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          • #35
            Mingo would be huge upgrade at Sam. Well to me just about anyone is. Kiwi is not a Linebacker and should have been a De. Mingo would be perfect against option offenses.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DarceChoke View Post
              This 100%. He would be a huge upgrade over Kiwi and no one is saying play him at full time DE. Use him as a SAM and then as a situational edge rusher (which is a massive need). My ideal draft is getting Mingo and then Greene in round 2. I know a lot of people don't but I personally think Greene could play MLB in the NFL and develop very well. At worst he will play WILL and Jacquian Williams will be a nickel package guy and great depth. With those two picks are LBs are massively upgraded with playmakers and we help fix the pass rush. It's a no brainier to me if Mingo is there; not to mention how he'd help us with the read option which we will see a ton.
              But again, you are talking about taking a guy who plays 1 position and taking risk that he will convert to another. That is a risk and risk lowers value, which is exactly why he is worth less to a 43 team than he is to a 34 , where you can clearly see he has the skillset to play 34 OLB.

              I think it is fitting you bring up Kiwi because he is an example that kinda backfires for you. He was benched at SLB last year because he hasnt exactly thrived at the postion when it comes to playing in space and moving away from the line of scrimmage. There is a real risk of that happening to Mingo too. Again, risk lowers his value.

              It isnt impossible and the guy is a freak of an athlete for sure. But, in my opinion, he has way more value to a 34 team.

              Think about it this way. He is the 2nd rated 34 olb on most scout boards. Where would you rate him as a 43 OLB? Maybe 4th or 5th at best? So not only is he more valuable as a 34 olb but 34 olbs tend to get drafted sooner than equal ly ranked 43 SLBs.
              Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-29-2013, 04:22 PM.
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              • #37
                He's just as much a risk to a 34 team because moving to OLB is a position switch too. He's never played in a 3-4

                His value as a pass rusher should be similar to every team. And to me, he is probably more valuable in a 4-3, because I'm not sure he has the strength to be a 3-4 OLb
                Last edited by slipknottin; 03-29-2013, 04:32 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                  He's just as much a risk to a 34 team because moving to OLB is a position switch too. He's never played in a 3-4

                  Is that why he is the 2nd rated 34 olb on many scouts boards and isnt listed at all as a 43 SLB on most?

                  Im not against the kid, he is a heck of a player. But his skillset screams 34 to me.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                    Is that why he is the 2nd rated 34 olb on many scouts boards and isnt listed at all as a 43 SLB on most?

                    Im not against the kid, he is a heck of a player. But his skillset screams 34 to me.
                    yup.. when I think of Mingo, I think 3-4 OLB..

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                      Is that why he is the 2nd rated 34 olb on many scouts boards and isnt listed at all as a 43 SLB on most?

                      Im not against the kid, he is a heck of a player. But his skillset screams 34 to me.
                      Well his value is as a pass rusher. And he isn't a DE. So 3-4 OLB is where they would list him.

                      But it's similar to Von Miller. Went #2 overall to a 4-3 team. But they utilize him as a pass rusher more than anything.

                      Have to do the same type of thing with Mingo to get the most out of him

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                        Well his value is as a pass rusher. And he isn't a DE. So 3-4 OLB is where they would list him.

                        But it's similar to Von Miller. Went #2 overall to a 4-3 team. But they utilize him as a pass rusher more than anything.

                        Have to do the same type of thing with Mingo to get the most out of him
                        But that is misleading. Von Millier showed at the combine and all offseason that he could play in space and has incredibly flexible hips. That is why he began to be considered as a 43 SLB. In fact, Mayock said Von Miller was the #1 rated OLB for either 43 or 34. The same cannot be said for mingo, at least not based on what we have seen out of him. Mingo could end up being the same thing, but it would be a bigger risk since. Again, higher risk = less value.
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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                          But again, you are talking about taking a guy who plays 1 position and taking risk that he will convert to another. That is a risk and risk lowers value, which is exactly why he is worth less to a 43 team than he is to a 34 , where you can clearly see he has the skillset to play 34 OLB.

                          I think it is fitting you bring up Kiwi because he is an example that kinda backfires for you. He was benched at SLB last year because he hasnt exactly thrived at the postion when it comes to playing in space and moving away from the line of scrimmage. There is a real risk of that happening to Mingo too. Again, risk lowers his value.

                          It isnt impossible and the guy is a freak of an athlete for sure. But, in my opinion, he has way more value to a 34 team.

                          Think about it this way. He is the 2nd rated 34 olb on most scout boards. Where would you rate him as a 43 OLB? Maybe 4th or 5th at best? So not only is he more valuable as a 34 olb but 34 olbs tend to get drafted sooner than equal ly ranked 43 SLBs.
                          let me ask u, have u seen mingo play...at all??

                          doesnt seem like it to me bc he was basically used as a 4-3 DE at LSU. He was asked to be the contain/set the edge/eat up the OT guy to help free up other players. as documented by some of our more savvy ncaa posters here, LSU doesnt exactly utilize their players strengths.

                          watch him play the read option and then tell me he cant play both DE and SLB...only concern is the strength, which actually hurts him more in a 3-4 where he'll be asked to take on OL 1v1 as a focal point to their pass rush and prob end up double teamed where as here we can rush him outside JPPs outside shoulder upfield, or use him like we used Osi and try to get him a free release upfield...

                          then u factor in he's basically as athletic as Ogeltree and u can understand why coaches salivate over him bc u can teach him to cover bc he actually moves well in space...

                          he'd be a situational pass rusher and situational LB the first yr or 2 id suppose before reaching most of his potential at whatever position we see fit...guy could absolutely make an immediate impact as a pass rusher (prob best first step of any DE/OLB) and we need that so, aside from Warmack/Cooper/Johnson, Mingo would be perfect here.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                            But that is misleading. Von Millier showed at the combine and all offseason that he could play in space and has incredibly flexible hips. That is why he began to be considered as a 43 SLB. In fact, Mayock said Von Miller was the #1 rated OLB for either 43 or 34. The same cannot be said for mingo, at least not based on what we have seen out of him. Mingo could end up being the same thing, but it would be a bigger risk since. Again, higher risk = less value.
                            But Miller would never have similar value to a 4-3 team as a 3-4 team UNLESS they used him primarily as a pass rusher. Thats my point.

                            No 4-3 team would take him #2 overall then ask him to play in space every play, theres no value in that at all.


                            If he isnt strong enough to be a 3-4 base OLB which IMO, he might not be, (not as if a 3-4 OLB doesnt have to take on OTs on run downs, its very similar to a 4-3 weakside end) then how does a 3-4 team get him on the field on base downs? ILB? Very unlikely.

                            But in a 4-3, he could be a SAM on run downs, which means he could fit into both the base and situational package for a 4-3 team, while probably only being a situational guy for a 3-4 team.

                            On the other hand, maybe some 3-4 teams think he can get stronger quickly or that he is already strong enough to be a base player. I dont see it that way, but those are the options there.

                            So its entirely possible that Mingo is in fact more valuable to a 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              But Miller would never have similar value to a 4-3 team as a 3-4 team UNLESS they used him primarily as a pass rusher. Thats my point.

                              No 4-3 team would take him #2 overall then ask him to play in space every play, theres no value in that at all.


                              If he isnt strong enough to be a 3-4 base OLB which IMO, he might not be, (not as if a 3-4 OLB doesnt have to take on OTs on run downs, its very similar to a 4-3 weakside end) then how does a 3-4 team get him on the field on base downs? ILB? Very unlikely.

                              But in a 4-3, he could be a SAM on run downs, which means he could fit into both the base and situational package for a 4-3 team, while probably only being a situational guy for a 3-4 team.

                              On the other hand, maybe some 3-4 teams think he can get stronger quickly or that he is already strong enough to be a base player. I dont see it that way, but those are the options there.

                              So its entirely possible that Mingo is in fact more valuable to a 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.
                              Ok I am going to ask you straight up. Right now, as he is as a prospect do you think he is more valuable as a 43 SLB or a 34 OLB?

                              You are talking a lot of guesswork above when you talk about what he "could do" or "might not be able to do" and even a few "maybe" in there. He CAN passrush and beat ppl on the edge with speed, we know that. Everything else is guesswork and that lowers value. So do you draft a guy on what he can do? or what he could possibly maybe probably do? IN the 1st round, I look for guys who can do. Maybe it is just me.

                              Hence why I feel he has the most value as a 34 OLB. That doesnt mean he wont get drafted as something else, I just am going with probability.
                              Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-29-2013, 06:47 PM.
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
                                let me ask u, have u seen mingo play...at all??

                                doesnt seem like it to me bc he was basically used as a 4-3 DE at LSU. He was asked to be the contain/set the edge/eat up the OT guy to help free up other players. as documented by some of our more savvy ncaa posters here, LSU doesnt exactly utilize their players strengths.

                                watch him play the read option and then tell me he cant play both DE and SLB...only concern is the strength, which actually hurts him more in a 3-4 where he'll be asked to take on OL 1v1 as a focal point to their pass rush and prob end up double teamed where as here we can rush him outside JPPs outside shoulder upfield, or use him like we used Osi and try to get him a free release upfield...

                                then u factor in he's basically as athletic as Ogeltree and u can understand why coaches salivate over him bc u can teach him to cover bc he actually moves well in space...

                                he'd be a situational pass rusher and situational LB the first yr or 2 id suppose before reaching most of his potential at whatever position we see fit...guy could absolutely make an immediate impact as a pass rusher (prob best first step of any DE/OLB) and we need that so, aside from Warmack/Cooper/Johnson, Mingo would be perfect here.
                                yes I have seen him play. Do you think I am saying he is a bad player? Have you read what I said? Because you seem to be arguing like I said he is bad or cant be a SLB. I never said that. I agree with Slip, Mingo could possibly maybe play SLB. But I know for a fact he can speedrush off the edge. In the 1st round I draft certainties, not maybes. Or at least as close as i to certainty.

                                Or are you trying to argue that he can be a 43 DE? If that is the argument you are making , you arent just argueing with me you are arguing with almost every scouting service around, including Mike Mayock.

                                I love the kid as a player, but he is not strong. There is a reason he has refused to do the bench press this entire offseason.

                                He is lightning off the edge, and most tackles are going to have a hell of a time with his speedrush . But he isnt stout at the point of attack either. He isnt terrible, but he isnt stout enough to be a 43 DE in the NFL. Teams will run at him and his 240lbs all day. If someone drafts him to be a 43 de, he will be a situational player(passing downs) until he can gain enough strength to play the position. Maybe thats what we will do, It isnt beyond impossible, but I dunno, I dont find it probable.
                                Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-29-2013, 06:59 PM.
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