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I don't understand the negativity regarding DJ Fluker

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  • #31
    Originally posted by EliManningUp View Post
    Did you watch 2011 where Eli played with a turnstile at RT in McKenzie? He did pretty damn well.

    And Fluker is nowhere close to a turnstile. He gets beat a couple times a game. That's it. The majority of the time, he stonewalls his guy. He's an above average pass-blocker.
    That's a HUGE exaggeration. I just rewatched the Michigan and Miss State games where Fluker allowed a total of 8 pressures between the two games. His lack of mobility was highlighted in particular when the blitzing LB went past his right side as if he never existed and McCarron was sacked for a big loss. It was close to injuring the QBs ankle too. He gets away with a lot because of his freakish arms but heavens forbid if someone gets past him and you might as well start running. He even gets beat in the run game at times as well so lets not act like he is going to suddenly make a team top 10 in rushing.

    Edit: Oh and he's the perfect victim for speed rushers on crucial passing 3rd downs. He would be too much of a liability when it matters most.

    Comment


    • #32
      fluker had success in the college game thanks in large to the reach/length of his arms. THAT WONT BE NEARLY AS EFFECTIVE IN THE NFL. cant stress that enough. Guys will be into and by him by the time he gets his feet set, his feet are that bad in pass pro. he could get better, and as a RT u typically want a mauler in the run game anyways...BUT we don't run a traditional offense we need a RT thats as capable pass blocking as he is run blocking and Flukers quite a bit aways from that point...I'd rather sign a FA at value like Andre Smith or Eric Winston, draft Warmack/Cooper whoever falls OR draft Barrett Jones in the 2nd/3rd rd...honestly in pass protection, fluker might not even be a clear cut better player than DD and thats saying a whole lot...

      edit-before i read any comments, yeah that DD comment went too far lol

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
        fluker had success in the college game thanks in large to the reach/length of his arms. THAT WONT BE NEARLY AS EFFECTIVE IN THE NFL. cant stress that enough. Guys will be into and by him by the time he gets his feet set, his feet are that bad in pass pro. he could get better, and as a RT u typically want a mauler in the run game anyways...BUT we don't run a traditional offense we need a RT thats as capable pass blocking as he is run blocking and Flukers quite a bit aways from that point...I'd rather sign a FA at value like Andre Smith or Eric Winston, draft Warmack/Cooper whoever falls OR draft Barrett Jones in the 2nd/3rd rd...honestly in pass protection, fluker might not even be a clear cut better player than DD and thats saying a whole lot...

        edit-before i read any comments, yeah that DD comment went too far lol

        We're not signing either Andre Smith or Eric Winston. So that's that.

        And the Cowboys at 18 need a OG. Neither Warmack nor Cooper will be there.

        DJ Fluker at 19 would be a phenomenal choice.

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        • #34
          I think it just comes down to DJ Fluker looking like an obese Ramses Barden. After years of being unable to run anything except a slant, Giants fans are rather negative over the fact he let himself go in order to re-sign with the team as a tackle.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by EliManningUp View Post
            We're not signing either Andre Smith or Eric Winston. So that's that.

            And the Cowboys at 18 need a OG. Neither Warmack nor Cooper will be there.

            DJ Fluker at 19 would be a phenomenal choice.
            I would be shocked if the Giants took Fluker at 19.

            Comment


            • #36
              The guy is going to get burned every single play because apparently only defensive ends gets better after college... Yet somehow he's projected to be a first rounder??! GMs should read our boards to really learn about players.

              Again, I don't want him at #19 since we're more of a passing offense and I agree it's his weakness right now... but he's not as bad as people are makingh him out to be.
              Last edited by BlueSabbath; 04-02-2013, 12:10 PM.
              2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

              Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
              Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
              Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
              Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
              Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
              Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
              Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

              Comment


              • #37
                I respect Enigma and Slips opinions more than just about anyone on here, but I disagree with the both of you. You're both definitely exaggerating reality here.

                Enigma - Michigan and Miss St. were not bad games for Fluker. I count no more than half those 8 pressures you mentioned. You must be placing blame on pressures that were actually the responsibility of AJ Mccarron, the RB protection, or Anthony Steen (RG). The guy is a force in the running game and doesn't look bad in pass protect.

                I think the point is clear that he would be an upgrade over anyone we've had at RT for the last 3 years.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
                  I respect Enigma and Slips opinions more than just about anyone on here, but I disagree with the both of you. You're both definitely exaggerating reality here.

                  Enigma - Michigan and Miss St. were not bad games for Fluker. I count no more than half those 8 pressures you mentioned. You must be placing blame on pressures that were actually the responsibility of AJ Mccarron, the RB protection, or Anthony Steen (RG). The guy is a force in the running game and doesn't look bad in pass protect.

                  I think the point is clear that he would be an upgrade over anyone we've had at RT for the last 3 years.
                  I'll list them for you then and let you judge for yourself

                  Michigan

                  0:17 - Both on Fluker and the RB. Fluker was just way too slow on the snap here to diagnose the inside move.

                  1:13 - Deep pass attempt by the Roll Ride. Good coverage down the field but both Fluker and the TE on the weakside are beat by their man to force McCarron to throw it away. This one is a little debatable but it would still count as a pressure.

                  1:56 - The defensive end manages to shed Fluker here and takes the RB down for a loss in the backfield. This is obviously not a pass pressure but just an example that Fluker can be beat in the run game lol. He's not perfect in that regard.

                  2:02 - He looked sloppy on his backpedal here and the defensive end had a good amount of room and thus, managed to turn the corner against him. At least this one was technique.

                  4:12 - Kouandijo (moreso) and Fluker are both beat around the edge on this deep pass attempt. No coverage pressure here.

                  I'll have to rewatch the Miss State game later but that is what stood out to me on Michigan. I like him much better at Guard in the pros personally and even if he does play RT initially, I can't imagine him doing too well at it when he reaches the twilight portion of his career.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by PBTimmons View Post
                    I respect Enigma and Slips opinions more than just about anyone on here, but I disagree with the both of you. You're both definitely exaggerating reality here.

                    Enigma - Michigan and Miss St. were not bad games for Fluker. I count no more than half those 8 pressures you mentioned. You must be placing blame on pressures that were actually the responsibility of AJ Mccarron, the RB protection, or Anthony Steen (RG). The guy is a force in the running game and doesn't look bad in pass protect.

                    I think the point is clear that he would be an upgrade over anyone we've had at RT for the last 3 years.
                    Just watch Alabama vs LSU to feel good about your side of the argument. There is a load of NFL talent on that LSU line and Fluker had no problems... even when facing Mingo (a first round speed rusher) on passing situations. I remember at the end of the game Alabama was in obvious passing situations because of the time and being down. If Fluker sucked so bad Mingo would have easily been flying right by him. Didn't happen. He pretty much owned Mingo whenever they faced off.

                    I'm not too concerned with the Michigan game. It was the first game of his junior year. I'm more concerned with how he developed.
                    2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                    Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                    Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                    Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                    Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                    Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                    Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                    Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                      I'll list them for you then and let you judge for yourself

                      Michigan

                      0:17 - Both on Fluker and the RB. Fluker was just way too slow on the snap here to diagnose the inside move.

                      1:13 - Deep pass attempt by the Roll Ride. Good coverage down the field but both Fluker and the TE on the weakside are beat by their man to force McCarron to throw it away. This one is a little debatable but it would still count as a pressure.

                      1:56 - The defensive end manages to shed Fluker here and takes the RB down for a loss in the backfield. This is obviously not a pass pressure but just an example that Fluker can be beat in the run game lol. He's not perfect in that regard.

                      2:02 - He looked sloppy on his backpedal here and the defensive end had a good amount of room and thus, managed to turn the corner against him. At least this one was technique.

                      4:12 - Kouandijo (moreso) and Fluker are both beat around the edge on this deep pass attempt. No coverage pressure here.

                      I'll have to rewatch the Miss State game later but that is what stood out to me on Michigan. I like him much better at Guard in the pros personally and even if he does play RT initially, I can't imagine him doing too well at it when he reaches the twilight portion of his career.
                      What are these times? Are they game times? A link to which film you are watching? No qtrs listed so I'm confused.
                      2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                      Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                      Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                      Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                      Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                      Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                      Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                      Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
                        Just watch Alabama vs LSU to feel good about your side of the argument. There is a load of NFL talent on that LSU line and Fluker had no problems... even when facing Mingo (a first round speed rusher) on passing situations. I remember at the end of the game Alabama was in obvious passing situations because of the time and being down. If Fluker sucked so bad Mingo would have easily been flying right by him. Didn't happen. He pretty much owned Mingo whenever they faced off.

                        I'm not too concerned with the Michigan game. It was the first game of his junior year. I'm more concerned with how he developed.
                        Mingo is bad at 4-3 DE if you play him there exclusively. Some of the moves LSU does leaves me baffled and that's one of them. He's obviously more of a space guy and should be rushing the passer standing up outside of a more natural DE's outside shoulder. Being fair though, Fluker had a good game against him. Still don't think people are properly projecting him on how he is going to fare in an offense like this which features more 5 and 7 step dropbacks. The Gilbride offense would leave his weaknesses more exposed.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BlueSabbath View Post
                          What are these times? Are they game times? A link to which film you are watching? No qtrs listed so I'm confused.
                          Sorry but I didn't see this earlier. It is of the game film posted by Redeye on Youtube with all of Fluker's snaps.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                            Sorry but I didn't see this earlier. It is of the game film posted by Redeye on Youtube with all of Fluker's snaps.
                            Gotcha. Must have missed the link but will go check it out. If it's of all of his snaps from his junior year and you found 8 messups, perhaps even I myself have underestimated how good he really is.
                            2017 Mock Draft (Pre-combine / FA):

                            Rd 1: OJ Howard (TE, Alabama)
                            Rd 2: Tanoh Kpassagnon (DE, Villanova)
                            Rd 3: Antonio Garcia (OT, Troy)
                            Rd 4: Samaje Perine (RB, Oklahoma)
                            Rd 5: Davis Webb (QB, Cal)
                            Rd 6: Ahkello Witherspoon (CB, Colorado)
                            Rd 7: DJ Jones (DT, Ole Miss)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I do think people are being a little harsh on him. I am not saying I would like us to pick him 19th, but he has done well for himself this offseason and I have to give him credit for that. But, I still am not fond of his value at 19.

                              Coming into the combine there were rumors that he played overweight while at Bama. I read he weighed as much as 380 lbs at one point during the season. Scouts were expecting him to look sloppy at the weight in. Apparently, he did not despite weighing 355 lbs. Many scouts , including Mayock, were saying he carried the weight well.

                              NFL has shown that players who play at high weights like that tend to suffer from durability and stamina issues. Simply put, it is a massive amount to carry around for an entire game, let alone an entire career. He will likely need to get down to 330ish. That doesnt seem all that hard, but you never know. NFL history is riddled with players who failed because of weight management issues.

                              To be fair, Fluker has been extremely durable to date. But a 21 yr old guy carrying 355+ lbs for a couple years is 1 thing, doing it into your 30's is another and people like to spend early draft picks on O-linemen who will last.

                              These little question marks are enough to lower his value to the point where I wouldnt risk it at 19. I do think he would most certainly help our run game because he is absolutely a mauler in the run game. But, we arent a team uses the oline to "maul" anyways. We typically use very complicated blocking schemes that require more finesse blocks.

                              I will never be surprised by Reese, who is brilliant at keeping his intentions under wraps. But I can say I would be more surprised that in recent years if we selected Fluker.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                I agree.. If i had to take a RT, i said i'd take Menelik Watson over Fluker, because Watson moves alot better in my opinion, and still has upside and could in fact, max out as a LT.. But even then, i woulden't take em, but my point is, thats how little i like Fluker..
                                True that Fluker's got some heavy feet (which have apparently improved in the draft process?), but I disagree he moves worse than Watson. While Watson may be faster, but he's got some wacky footwork and often seems out-of-position at the point of attack. At least on the bit of tape that I saw.

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