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DRAFT: WHO DO YOU WANT VS WHO DO YOU THINK WE GET?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by bearbryant View Post
    W/O putting in the obvious LT's off by 19, I'd take Ziggy for upside or Warmack, Floyd,Star or Richardson; Fluker, Jordane, A.Brown or Ogletree. I'd even be happy w/ Vaccaro if all of the Rd1 linemen are gone. Since the Jints can never seem to have enough DE's, something tells me it'll be Ziggy, Werner or the tank. Watch them go w/ Mingo and go contra in the whole draft. Never happen!~ Go Giants!
    Completely agree...we get our pass rush back to being the force to be feared and I guarantee we don't have nearly as many nail biting games as we have been recently

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    • #32
      Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
      ur discussing why FSU did or did not blitz, I'm discussing Werner.
      Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
      to add to my previous post, about werner, I know his sacks all came while the D was not bringing a blitz. some use that as a positive. I don't. I take that to mean he had coverage help bc aside from 3 sacks.
      You brought up the Sacks #'s from blitz not me.

      And about the 3 second thing. Bjeorn played LDE. That's not the side you want your guy to speed rush, esp with the mobile right handed QBs FSU faced this year. The speed rusher typically plays the RDE spot. So your 3 second rule doesn't apply. How many teams do you know play a speed rusher at the strong side? Furthermore, I would argue he got tor Qb rather fast for a strong side DE and he held his contain remarkably well, that is paramount for a LDE. Feel free to review his highlight reel.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydHxSVDR-fQ

      Lastly, I would note how you did leave out some of the clear points of strength of his game. He was good vs the run and created havoc in opposing backfields. 35 tackles for a loss 2 seasons as a starter and a freshman year where he barely played. Any way you cut it that is excellent penetration. When you add in the fact that he led the nation in yardages accumulated in tackles behind the line of scrimmage( a whopping 134) It begins to make you look foolish for doubting his ability to beat blockers. This was also taking into consideration that teams ran away from him. Tank Carradine was the new guy on the defense this year replacing the injured Brandon Jenkins. Teams spent the bulk of the season going at Tank rather than BJeorn in the run game, and Bjoern garners his remarkable TFL stats despite this.

      Now, I want you and anyone interested too look at the following chart....

      http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/leader/...23/sort01.html

      What that chart shows is the top ~50 players at defending passes(knocking passes out of the air) in the ACC. Notice the lone defensive lineman to make that list (at the 18 spot no less) in 2012. Then look at 2011 too, notice how he was tops again. Then realize that FSU did not drop him into coverage at all. All those passes defended came in the form of batting passes at the line of scrimmage. He is 1 of the great all time at this. If you are going to bring up the quick passing game of the NFL then you need to recognize that Bjeorn Werner made a college career out of battling passes out of the air which is 1 of the best counters for the quick hit passing game. So I guess he should be thanking you for bringing it up.
      Last edited by BlueSanta; 04-17-2013, 04:51 AM.
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      • #33
        I want Mingo he is 1 of the few players I think can be very special from this draft. I think it will be 1 of the FSU DE's

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        • #34
          Originally posted by giantsfan420 View Post
          u gotta think ahead toad. looking back, at that exact moment it seemed we were stacked...but we dont have bradshaw or jacobs, wilson makes sense. lost MM but had RR, makes sense.
          IF we took Tavon, one could argue he's looking ahead...
          Ahead like Victor Cruz being gone

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          • #35
            I can't see us going CB unless Rhodes is there and he probably won't be. And while OT is a big need in my view, this FO (and EA before) deoesn't seem to like O linemen in round 1.
            Having said that, DE is a huge need for us. Combine that with the tendency of JR (and again...EA before him) to love D linemen, I just think the best DE on the board may be their pick. I'm predicting what JR will do. I'm not saying that its the move that I would like to see the best.

            I think protecting our QB has to be our #1 priority. We did not address that in free agency, except to re-sign Beatty and Booth.
            I do think that if by some miracle, one of those guards are there at 19, even JR would jump at it. But as I said...that's a long shot. But our second priority, needs to be getting to the QB, or at least having more disruption on the D line.

            BTW...Ogletree would be a nightmare.

            So I like Fluker because he's isn't a reach at 19 and addresses our biggest need. And I'm sure we all like Rhodes with Webby getting on in years.
            But I just think we are going DE in the first. Werner is a nice pick for the DE rotation and eventually as a LDE replacement for Tuck.
            Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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            • #36
              There only a few guys i dont like with the 19 pick. this buy no means say I dont like them as a player just not at 19. Eiffert I would hate this pick. Trufant it just way to early for him and the cb class is deep. Any safety in first

              Any of these guys I am good with
              Jump for joy Warmack Cooper Ogeltree Mingo
              Solid drink a beer Rhodes Werner RIchardson Austin(never really thought bout this guy could be a monster and cruz little money game left sour taste)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by GOBLUE24 View Post
                There only a few guys i dont like with the 19 pick. this buy no means say I dont like them as a player just not at 19. Eiffert I would hate this pick. Trufant it just way to early for him and the cb class is deep. Any safety in first

                Any of these guys I am good with
                Jump for joy Warmack Cooper Ogeltree Mingo
                Solid drink a beer Rhodes Werner RIchardson Austin(never really thought bout this guy could be a monster and cruz little money game left sour taste)
                I think Ogeltree may be the biggest bust in this draft. Some guys are just good football players in college but they don't fit well in the NFL.
                So what is Ogeltree? He's not a MLB. He's too small and can't shed blocks. Is he a WILL? Don't know. He's never played there before.
                Is he a 3-4 OLB? Maybe.
                Its not that he's not a good football player. Its that their is no obvious fit for him in the NFL. To me...that means he needs to be stayed away from in round 1.
                Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

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                • #38
                  Werner seemed to play vs. the option/play-action extremely well. You beat these guys by being patient and smart. . .not straight-line speed. I think if we pick Werner, it tells us:

                  1. JR wants to shape this team SPECIFICALLY to defend the mobile QB. RG3 might be around for the next 10 years, Vick might be in Philly longer than people here think, and Romo is quite mobile and just signed a huge deal..

                  2. The clock is ticking on the Justin Tuck era.

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                  • #39
                    My Wants:

                    1. Warmack
                    2. Rhodes
                    3. Fluker
                    4. Ogletree

                    I think our pick will be: Fluker

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                    • #40
                      Im thinking Fluker also.. but I want Werner or Ogletree

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                      • #41
                        I want a Fla St player.. To be honest, if this is the final thread where we do this, my final hopefuls are 3 FLA ST players on my top 5, which i believe it was last wk, when we had this same thread...


                        1). Werner DE
                        2). Ogletree LB
                        3). Carradine DE
                        4). Rhodes CB
                        5). Honestly, i don't know here? I'd be fine with many players including Warmack...

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                        • #42
                          All this said, i'd rather trade down and add a pick or 2.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                            I want a Fla St player.. To be honest, if this is the final thread where we do this, my final hopefuls are 3 FLA ST players on my top 5, which i believe it was last wk, when we had this same thread...


                            1). Werner DE
                            2). Ogletree LB
                            3). Carradine DE
                            4). Rhodes CB
                            5). Honestly, i don't know here? I'd be fine with many players including Warmack...
                            aren't you scared of Carradine's ACL injury..? I am

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Carter.525 View Post
                              aren't you scared of Carradine's ACL injury..? I am
                              no, i'm not.. I get less scared of those injuries as the yrs go by.. These guys are coming back fine now.. I just watched Iman Shumpert come back no problem in less then a yr, in a sport u do nothing but run run run run , cut cut cut cut, run run run , cut cut cut..etc I feel Carradines charechter is that of a guy who wants to be very good and will work hard in his comeback from this injury, and a guy as young and hungry as him will come back fine in my opinion..

                              Casey Hampton a 325lb behemouth, has had 3 ACL reconstructions including his first one in college.. Adrien Peterson not only came back, but is back to being the best RB in football, and we seen Dom Hixon come back after multiple ACL's and play very well for us, and Jamal Lewis came back the next yr in 2002 after tearing his ACL and rush for 1300plus yrds, and u got Tom Brady who came back after his ACL injury just fine, and Roman Harper tore his ACL as a rook and was fine, had a really good career, and Nick Barnett, McGhahee, Edgerrin James, and Jerry Rice to the list as successful only a yr after there ACL tears...

                              In my opinion, it seems the players who are good players end up coming back and playing well.. If Carradine is gonna be a good player, i think he'll come into league and be good...

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                no, i'm not.. I get less scared of those injuries as the yrs go by.. These guys are coming back fine now.. I just watched Iman Shumpert come back no problem in less then a yr, in a sport u do nothing but run run run run , cut cut cut cut, run run run , cut cut cut..etc I feel Carradines charechter is that of a guy who wants to be very good and will work hard in his comeback from this injury, and a guy as young and hungry as him will come back fine in my opinion..

                                Casey Hampton a 325lb behemouth, has had 3 ACL reconstructions including his first one in college.. Adrien Peterson not only came back, but is back to being the best RB in football, and we seen Dom Hixon come back after multiple ACL's and play very well for us, and Jamal Lewis came back the next yr in 2002 after tearing his ACL and rush for 1300plus yrds, and u got Tom Brady who came back after his ACL injury just fine, and Roman Harper tore his ACL as a rook and was fine, had a really good career, and Nick Barnett, McGhahee, Edgerrin James, and Jerry Rice to the list as successful only a yr after there ACL tears...

                                In my opinion, it seems the players who are good players end up coming back and playing well.. If Carradine is gonna be a good player, i think he'll come into league and be good...
                                dang, you make a good case

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