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Giants May Take Notre Dame's Te'o In NFL Draft

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  • #76
    Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post
    I have seen him play plenty, and his play was masked by an excellent D-Line who kept blockers off him for the most part. The one game they were not able to do that, he was absolutely awful. ND played a fairly light schedule besides Stanford and Bama. He could be a solid player, but in no way is he a first rounder. Just my opinion, and most will agree with that. He is no better than say Nico Johnson from Bama imo, and Johnson is a projected 3rd-4th rounder.
    Are you suggesting our Dline is going to be as bad as Notre Dames during the Alabama game? I don't care who the LB is, its kinda hard to dominate when your line folds

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    • #77
      Originally posted by myles2424 View Post
      Are you suggesting our Dline is going to be as bad as Notre Dames during the Alabama game? I don't care who the LB is, its kinda hard to dominate when your line folds
      Tdawgs evaluation is exactly right. Aside from the Bama game, Te'o played this year with a clean jersey.

      While it is unlikely our dline gets dominated week in and week out the way ND's did vs Bama, it is equally unlikely that our Dline dominates every game but 1 so that Te'o doesn't have to deal with blockers for an entire season(should we draft him.)

      It is very fair what Tdawg is saying and for that reason I think T'eo would thrive more in a 3-4 system where keeping the LBs clean is part of the gameplan.
      sigpic

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      • #78
        its very obvious who has seen M. Teo play and who hasnt.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by myles2424 View Post
          Are you suggesting our Dline is going to be as bad as Notre Dames during the Alabama game? I don't care who the LB is, its kinda hard to dominate when your line folds
          Not at all, Te'o is just not a special player and not worth a first round selection based on his talent translating to the NFL. Like BlueSanta says, he would fit better in the 3-4.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
            I dont want him because they will treat him like Tebow in the media here. It will annoy me to no end
            Wow! I think you said it all.

            I never thought of it like that, but now that you mention it. . .this team doesn't need that.

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            • #81
              I DID A WHOLE VIDEO WRITE UP OGLETREE VS TEO.... U WANT OUR PICK???/ JUST WATCH OGLETREE VS ALABAMA AND WATCH TEO VS ALABAMA... COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES... OGLETREE PLAYED LIKE AN LT/CARL/ BANKS HYBRID IN THAT GAME WHERE TEO GOT SCHOOLED IN EVERY FACET OF THE GAME.

              VEGAS RICH MOCK 1a VEGAS RICH MOCK 1b VEGAS RICH MOCK 1c
              1) ALEC OGLETREE LB GEO 1) XAVIER RHODES DC FSU 1) TYLER EIFERT TE ND
              2) DJ HAYDEN / JAMAR TAYLOR DC 2) ARTHUR BROWN LB 2)KEVIN MINTER ILB LSU
              3) BRENNAN WILLAIMS OT UNC 3) BRENNAN WILLIAMS OT UNC 3) BRENNAN WILLIAMS OT
              4) MONTORI HUGHES DT TEN-MART 4) MARCUS HUNT DE SMU 4) BW WEBB DC WILL-MARY
              5) LEVINE TOILOLO TE STAN 5) LEVINE TOILOLO TE STAN 5) MALLICIAH GOODMAN DE
              6) MARK HARRISON WR RUT 6)MARK HARRISON WR RUT 6) MARK HARRISON WR
              7a) SEAN WILLIAMS SS GEORGIA 7a) SEAN WILLIAMS SS GEO 7a) SEAN WILLIAMS SS
              7b) THEO RIDDECK RB ND 7b) THEO RIDDECK RB ND THEO RIDDECK RB ND.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post
                Not at all, Te'o is just not a special player and not worth a first round selection based on his talent translating to the NFL. Like BlueSanta says, he would fit better in the 3-4.
                according to ppl on these boards, Manti wouldnt be able to play a 3-4. Some say Manti gets eaten up by the OLine and reference the Bama game as proof. Some say he's too slow to play 4-3 MLB. All of these things I disagree with.

                As far as his speed, anyone who has watched him can see plain as day that his game speed is much faster than his timed speed. If you watch Manti closely, you get a sense that even in the chaos of the play, time seems to move slowly for him. He understand everything going on around him. Call it awareness call it insticts, call it whatever you want. Good things happen when you play much faster than everyone else around you.

                Manti can stack and shed and be a force on the inside. there's 4 years of college game tape that proves he can. The main question heading into the 2012 season was if Manti can pass defend. I think 2012 proved not only can he defend the pass, but he can also make plays vs the pass as he did in games against Oklahoma and Stanford in previous years.

                The only concern ppl should have with Manti is he doesnt have solid tackling skills. He's definitely a hitter, but not so much a tackler. He doesnt miss many tackles as evident by his almost 100 tackles per year throughout his entire college career, he just doesnt make enough solid tackles. People who have watched him play over the years will know what Im talking about.

                I hate ppl who bring up the BCS game as the basis for their argument. I believe if Manti were a one year wonder than referencing a single game would have much more validity. Fortunately, Manti was not a one year wonder in CFB. For 4 years he has wow'd his fans with his playmaking ability...against OLineman who are currently in the NFL (a pair of stanford graduates comes to mind). Let me stress this point...Manti has been doing what he did this past year almost his entire 4 year college career. Some may think he got his attention when his grandmother died and a psycho stalker faked his/her death failing to remember that for the last 3 years Manti has been consistantly considered one of the best Linebackers in the nation.

                No matter where Manti ends up, people will soon forget the catfish fiasco, wont remember how he did at the combine, and may even forget how terribly he performed in the BCS game. I truly feel he'll be a very good linebacker in the NFL. Maybe not elite...but definitely will be compared to some of the really good ones when its all said and done.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Moecoastie77 View Post
                  according to ppl on these boards, Manti wouldnt be able to play a 3-4. Some say Manti gets eaten up by the OLine and reference the Bama game as proof. Some say he's too slow to play 4-3 MLB. All of these things I disagree with.

                  As far as his speed, anyone who has watched him can see plain as day that his game speed is much faster than his timed speed. If you watch Manti closely, you get a sense that even in the chaos of the play, time seems to move slowly for him. He understand everything going on around him. Call it awareness call it insticts, call it whatever you want. Good things happen when you play much faster than everyone else around you.

                  Manti can stack and shed and be a force on the inside. there's 4 years of college game tape that proves he can. The main question heading into the 2012 season was if Manti can pass defend. I think 2012 proved not only can he defend the pass, but he can also make plays vs the pass as he did in games against Oklahoma and Stanford in previous years.

                  The only concern ppl should have with Manti is he doesnt have solid tackling skills. He's definitely a hitter, but not so much a tackler. He doesnt miss many tackles as evident by his almost 100 tackles per year throughout his entire college career, he just doesnt make enough solid tackles. People who have watched him play over the years will know what Im talking about.

                  I hate ppl who bring up the BCS game as the basis for their argument. I believe if Manti were a one year wonder than referencing a single game would have much more validity. Fortunately, Manti was not a one year wonder in CFB. For 4 years he has wow'd his fans with his playmaking ability...against OLineman who are currently in the NFL (a pair of stanford graduates comes to mind). Let me stress this point...Manti has been doing what he did this past year almost his entire 4 year college career. Some may think he got his attention when his grandmother died and a psycho stalker faked his/her death failing to remember that for the last 3 years Manti has been consistantly considered one of the best Linebackers in the nation.

                  No matter where Manti ends up, people will soon forget the catfish fiasco, wont remember how he did at the combine, and may even forget how terribly he performed in the BCS game. I truly feel he'll be a very good linebacker in the NFL. Maybe not elite...but definitely will be compared to some of the really good ones when its all said and done.
                  Well, I think he is a fine player, but there are certainly enough question marks for people to not want him at 19. I do think his instincts are good, and his speed isn't a problem, especially in games.

                  My problem with him is that he has no experience in coverage, and that he doesn't get off blocks well, or rather there isn't much good film of him doing either.

                  Understand this is a highlight reel and not a video of every down play but you will see that virtually ALL of these highlights came in 1)zone coverage and 2) unblocked plays. These include all his INTs as well as the bulk of the good plays he made all year.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfkFuJDPd4

                  What you don't see there is a guy who can stick with a back out of the backfield(most MLBs cant) nor do you see a guy get a block on him, shed that block and move in to make the play or force it back where it gets made. As I said above, his jersey is clean by design.

                  Now, as I said few MLBs can stick with a back or TE in coverage. But, to remain on the field in a nickel package, which is about 50%-60% of the snaps in the NFL today you have to be able to cover. So that makes him a 2 down backer and I do not believe you spend the 19th pick on a guy who isn't on the field for 50%+ of the snaps. I have been wrong before, and desperately need a MLB and a leader, but value wise, I think it is a mistake. I could live with it, I do think there are things to like about him, most notably his production at every level. But, it isn't my preference.

                  Lastly, we have no idea if he can get off blocks, because few teams successfully got a helmet on him(if you throw out the Bama game as you suggest.) And, we know that while he is good zone drops and understands blocking passing lanes in zone defenses, he has no experience in man coverage. But, everything else is rated very well.

                  I just described a 34 ILB to a tee. They use zone more(for Lbs) and getting off blocks is not as essential as it is in a 43.
                  Last edited by BlueSanta; 04-25-2013, 02:56 AM.
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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                    Well, I think he is a fine player, but there are certainly enough question marks for people to not want him at 19. I do think his instincts are good, and his speed isn't a problem, especially in games.

                    My problem with him is that he has no experience in coverage, and that he doesn't get off blocks well, or rather there isn't much good film of him doing either.

                    Understand this is a highlight reel and not a video of every down play but you will see that virtually ALL of these highlights came in 1)zone coverage and 2) unblocked plays. These include all his INTs as well as the bulk of the good plays he made all year.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfkFuJDPd4

                    What you don't see there is a guy who can stick with a back out of the backfield(most MLBs cant) nor do you see a guy get a block on him, shed that block and move in to make the play or force it back where it gets made. As I said above, his jersey is clean by design.

                    Now, as I said few MLBs can stick with a back or TE in coverage. But, to remain on the field in a nickel package, which is about 50%-60% of the snaps in the NFL today you have to be able to cover. So that makes him a 2 down backer and I do not believe you spend the 19th pick on a guy who isn't on the field for 50%+ of the snaps. I have been wrong before, and desperately need a MLB and a leader, but value wise, I think it is a mistake. I could live with it, I do think there are things to like about him, most notably his production at every level. But, it isn't my preference.

                    Lastly, we have no idea if he can get off blocks, because few teams successfully got a helmet on him(if you throw out the Bama game as you suggest.) And, we know that while he is good zone drops and understands blocking passing lanes in zone defenses, he has no experience in man coverage. But, everything else is rated very well.

                    I just described a 34 ILB to a tee. They use zone more(for Lbs) and getting off blocks is not as essential as it is in a 43.
                    I admit, I was wrong to question his ability to be a 34 ILB when I believe he would be a good LB no matter the scheme. That includes the giants base 43.

                    Goff was arguably the best MLB the giants have had since Pierce. Goff was very strong vs the run and considered weak vs the pass. Despite this perception, he always seemed to be where he needed to be and the Giants gave him more than a few opportunities on 3rd down. Teo is a type of player I feel will always be where he needs to be thus letting the playmaker come out.

                    If anything, if the Giants dont draft him at 19 it will not be because they question his 3rd down ability...lack of special teams value is what will prevent the Giants from drafting him.

                    If the Giants dont get him, I hope Chicago does. Just so I can see him thrive in a 43/

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Moecoastie77 View Post
                      I admit, I was wrong to question his ability to be a 34 ILB when I believe he would be a good LB no matter the scheme. That includes the giants base 43.

                      Goff was arguably the best MLB the giants have had since Pierce. Goff was very strong vs the run and considered weak vs the pass. Despite this perception, he always seemed to be where he needed to be and the Giants gave him more than a few opportunities on 3rd down. Teo is a type of player I feel will always be where he needs to be thus letting the playmaker come out.
                      You are making my case for me. Goff was a 5th rounder and he came off during nickel packages too. There is a huge difference between spending a 5h round pick on a 2 down player and a 1st round pick on a 2 down player.

                      I do not disagree that Te'o is smart and a playmaker and will be where he needs to be. I just do not think he is an every down backer, except possibly in a 34 scheme. And you don't spend 1st round picks on 2 down players. MLB is a big need this year, but I think that need can be filled without exhausting our 1st round pick.
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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                        You are making my case for me. Goff was a 5th rounder and he came off during nickel packages too. There is a huge difference between spending a 5h round pick on a 2 down player and a 1st round pick on a 2 down player.

                        I do not disagree that Te'o is smart and a playmaker and will be where he needs to be. I just do not think he is an every down backer, except possibly in a 34 scheme. And you don't spend 1st round picks on 2 down players. MLB is a big need this year, but I think that need can be filled without exhausting our 1st round pick.
                        I look at it this way, is he any better than say Nico Johnson or Kevin Red****? They are both considered 3rd-4th round prospects and to me he is equal to them in how he translates to the NFL game. He had an excellent college career but that does not mean he will step onto an NFL field and keep that up. He is not a great fit in today's NFL to me. He is a liability against the pass and can get caught up by blockers way too easily. 3rd round...yes but in no way am I drafting him in the first.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Moecoastie77 View Post
                          according to ppl on these boards, Manti wouldnt be able to play a 3-4. Some say Manti gets eaten up by the OLine and reference the Bama game as proof. Some say he's too slow to play 4-3 MLB. All of these things I disagree with.

                          As far as his speed, anyone who has watched him can see plain as day that his game speed is much faster than his timed speed. If you watch Manti closely, you get a sense that even in the chaos of the play, time seems to move slowly for him. He understand everything going on around him. Call it awareness call it insticts, call it whatever you want. Good things happen when you play much faster than everyone else around you.

                          Manti can stack and shed and be a force on the inside. there's 4 years of college game tape that proves he can. The main question heading into the 2012 season was if Manti can pass defend. I think 2012 proved not only can he defend the pass, but he can also make plays vs the pass as he did in games against Oklahoma and Stanford in previous years.

                          The only concern ppl should have with Manti is he doesnt have solid tackling skills. He's definitely a hitter, but not so much a tackler. He doesnt miss many tackles as evident by his almost 100 tackles per year throughout his entire college career, he just doesnt make enough solid tackles. People who have watched him play over the years will know what Im talking about.

                          I hate ppl who bring up the BCS game as the basis for their argument. I believe if Manti were a one year wonder than referencing a single game would have much more validity. Fortunately, Manti was not a one year wonder in CFB. For 4 years he has wow'd his fans with his playmaking ability...against OLineman who are currently in the NFL (a pair of stanford graduates comes to mind). Let me stress this point...Manti has been doing what he did this past year almost his entire 4 year college career. Some may think he got his attention when his grandmother died and a psycho stalker faked his/her death failing to remember that for the last 3 years Manti has been consistantly considered one of the best Linebackers in the nation.

                          No matter where Manti ends up, people will soon forget the catfish fiasco, wont remember how he did at the combine, and may even forget how terribly he performed in the BCS game. I truly feel he'll be a very good linebacker in the NFL. Maybe not elite...but definitely will be compared to some of the really good ones when its all said and done.
                          great assestment good stuff
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                          FUTURE NY GIANTS PLAYER

                          2015 season tbd

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                            You are making my case for me. Goff was a 5th rounder and he came off during nickel packages too. There is a huge difference between spending a 5h round pick on a 2 down player and a 1st round pick on a 2 down player.

                            I do not disagree that Te'o is smart and a playmaker and will be where he needs to be. I just do not think he is an every down backer, except possibly in a 34 scheme. And you don't spend 1st round picks on 2 down players. MLB is a big need this year, but I think that need can be filled without exhausting our 1st round pick.
                            I believe Goff played in Nickel packages during the later quarter of his short career. At first he did not play at all in sub packages but if I remember correctly they slowly brought him around.

                            This is going to sound silly to some but its a very simple way for me to explain this whole 2-down criteria. Almost the entire front 7 for the giants defense rotate. Along with rotating within the same position, the Giants also have DT's share snapes with DE's, DE's share snaps with LBs, LB's share snaps with CBs. Im not exactly sure of the snap count but my trusty eyeball assessment tells me you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the front 7 that plays 3 downs on a consistant basis. With that logic, the only positions that can truly be called 3-down positions would be CB's and Safeties. (yes Im reaching a bit but I believe its valid).

                            Contrary to the popular opinion of these boards, I believe the Giant FO values a thumper type in the middle over the speeder hybrid/safety most on here envision manning the middle of the defense.

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                            • #89
                              Is he bringing the memories of his dead pseudo-girlfriend?

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post
                                I look at it this way, is he any better than say Nico Johnson or Kevin Red****? They are both considered 3rd-4th round prospects and to me he is equal to them in how he translates to the NFL game. He had an excellent college career but that does not mean he will step onto an NFL field and keep that up. He is not a great fit in today's NFL to me. He is a liability against the pass and can get caught up by blockers way too easily. 3rd round...yes but in no way am I drafting him in the first.
                                Red**** has no concept of pass defense and I honestly wouldnt trust a Linebacker out of Alabama.

                                I truly feel Teo has elite awareness, enough athleticism, and the consistency to improve year after year to be considered a second tier guy. At 19, unless a first tier guy falls, all 2nd tier guys should be considered. Yes, I believe he will be better than Ogletree who completely got railed against Bama. Against a team he should be so familiar with that he shouldnt even have to think out there and just use his perceived athleticism and fly around making plays. Instead, he looked like he didn't know what he was doing and looked like a tall fast guy making a big hit once in a while.

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