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Report Card: Grading The Giants' Draft

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  • #46
    The thing about Pugh, and why this particular pick didn't bother me so much, is the guy absolutely will play in the NFL. With his technical ability and footwork, there is very little chance of him busting completely. That cannot be said about a lot of prospects from the 1st round this year. There are a number of players who could very easily be complete busts.

    People like to think that the best drafting teams are the ones that find the most studs in the draft. That really isn't true at all. It is the team with the fewest airballs in the draft.

    Was Pugh my favorite choice? No. But, the pick doesn't bother me a ton. At least, not as much as many here in these forums.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
      Yes the Oline was bad thats why I wanted for them to take Cordy Glenn a better prospect then Pugh last year

      This is the part of the Pugh pick that I have a hard time understanding. When I back away and look at the long term strategy it seems odd that we would pass on Cordy last year then take Pugh this year.
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      • #48
        Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
        Yes the Oline was bad thats why I wanted for them to take Cordy Glenn a better prospect then Pugh last year
        I remember Cordy Glenn being there, but as I watched Wilson on the field the memory fades away. I think we got the BPA, and I think behind a good run blocking line Wilson will do better than Martin.
        Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

        http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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        • #49
          Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
          This is the part of the Pugh pick that I have a hard time understanding. When I back away and look at the long term strategy it seems odd that we would pass on Cordy last year then take Pugh this year.
          There is no David Wilson in this draft.
          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post
            There is no David Wilson in this draft.
            Hey I was a huge Wilson fan and I was the guy asking for us to draft him prior to the draft last year.

            But, That's not what I am saying.

            The Pugh pick is safe. He has a small chance of being a bust. That's ok, as I said the best drafting teams often aren't the teams that have the most home runs , but the fewest strike outs.

            But, there is very little doubt that the Pugh pick was a need pick. Far more need than value, which is unlike Reese and this front office who is normally very good at avoiding having to pick a guy because we need him sooner rather than later. That is why the passing on Glenn now seems peculiar. I love David Wilson, I loved him at VT. But, I do not like being in a situation in the draft where we HAVE to pick a position NOW because the need is so dire, which is the position our front office found thsmelves in this year in part because they overlooked Glenn last year.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by myles2424 View Post
              Overall I'd have to give this draft a C.....

              Pugh,although he may be a great player & some swear we didn't reach for him....Here's my beef,there's a better chance we have to move him around than him being able to play RT.....and we passed on much higher talent (nobody can argue that) that alone makes that pick a C....Crap teams pick for need while good teams get great BPAs that everyone else passes on, Pugh is a need pick....

              Hankins, yes I know he's a great run stuffer, but he's still a one demensional player as of now....I believe he was picked exactly where he deserved,no value there.....The pick itself is B, once again passing on much better talent makes it a C+ IMO......I'm sorry but you don't pass on a CB that couldve cracked the starting lineup & the best non pass rushing Lb in the draft that could've easily started week 1, just to pick up a run stuffer......I like the player,dislike the pick....

              Moore, everyone has a different opinion on him....but value wise it's a A+ pick....he's not a blazing monster off the edge, but he's obviously doing something right...& people claim his sacks are mostly coverage sacks.......my response to that is, then why the hell aren't all DEs putting up 21 tackles for loss & 12.5 sacks worth of coverage sacks then!?? Come on now!!! there's red flags off the field & when I heard "the program doesn't really endorse him" it scared the hell out of me......but upside of that is, he's only 20 years old & has some growing up to do....perhaps being picked in 3rd round can serve as a reality check & being a rookie on a NFL with alot of talent ahead of him can be a wake up call that it's not going to come easy....

              The rest of the picks, no comment....I'm not a fan either way....I hope they're all future hall of farmers,but I'm not a fan of passing up on BPAs that also fill needs......this has been a trend for years now, rounds 4-7 you can count on no name players that are far out projects....I'm sorry but I'm going with the bigger names from the bigger programs, Marcus lattimore,Jonathan Franklin,devin Taylor,Quittin Patton,kasheem Greene,terry hawthorne,Micah Hyde,Cornelius Washington,Baccari Rambo,Jordan poyer,Nick kasa,Sanders Cummings,Shamarko Thomas,Gerald hodges,B.w Webb,etc....I'm sorry but these are the guys that are worth taking chances on in the end of the draft instead of a safety/guard/RB that would've never been draft......I can't understand at all out of the guys I listed, we come up with some crazy picks that wouldn't even had been drafted.....

              Cooper Taylor, yea I know he's big & fast....but bad value in the 5th as far as other players that were still around....C
              Eric Herman, looks promising, but still the guy wasn't going to be drafted....B-
              Michael cox, why?? & who??? The guy impressed nobody in college,production sucked....ray Graham went Undrafted,end of story... D
              Great post and agree 100%. The talent we passed on is mind boggling for high risk projects. I mean we pass n Floyd then take a 2 down dt in the 2nd?? I just didn't understand this draft

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              • #52
                Originally posted by thegreatone View Post
                Great post and agree 100%. The talent we passed on is mind boggling for high risk projects. I mean we pass n Floyd then take a 2 down dt in the 2nd?? I just didn't understand this draft
                Floyd doesn't stuff the run and has off the field issues. Run defense is our biggest problem on defense. We got the second best run defending DT in the draft. He will take on double teams and make our LBs more effective. Besides, can you name the last player we drafted with off the field issues in the first round.

                We didn't want the athletic speed tackle, we wanted a clogger, we needed a clogger. We got a BEAST!!! Love the Hankins pick.
                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                  Hey I was a huge Wilson fan and I was the guy asking for us to draft him prior to the draft last year.

                  But, That's not what I am saying.

                  The Pugh pick is safe. He has a small chance of being a bust. That's ok, as I said the best drafting teams often aren't the teams that have the most home runs , but the fewest strike outs.

                  But, there is very little doubt that the Pugh pick was a need pick. Far more need than value, which is unlike Reese and this front office who is normally very good at avoiding having to pick a guy because we need him sooner rather than later. That is why the passing on Glenn now seems peculiar. I love David Wilson, I loved him at VT. But, I do not like being in a situation in the draft where we HAVE to pick a position NOW because the need is so dire, which is the position our front office found thsmelves in this year in part because they overlooked Glenn last year.
                  On twitter last year all the Giant beat writers were convinced they were taking Glenn. Ralph V said that he was their highest graded player. Glenn tested through the roof and had the same versatility Pugh supposedly has having played multiple spots. He had good tape from the SEC at Guard and Tackle. Who was the best lineman Pugh lined up against? In 2011 Bruce Irvin "Trying to get that game" but this year Trevardo Williams. Glenn had tape against Clowney,Melvin Ingram,Courtny Upshaw, and Barkevious Mingo isnt that worth more.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                    On twitter last year all the Giant beat writers were convinced they were taking Glenn. Ralph V said that he was their highest graded player. Glenn tested through the roof and had the same versatility Pugh supposedly has having played multiple spots. He had good tape from the SEC at Guard and Tackle. Who was the best lineman Pugh lined up against? In 2011 Bruce Irvin "Trying to get that game" but this year Trevardo Williams. Glenn had tape against Clowney,Melvin Ingram,Courtny Upshaw, and Barkevious Mingo isnt that worth more.
                    Well I was Wilson's biggest fan in college, you know that. I was happy when we got him.

                    That said, at the time when our pick came about last year. In the minutes and seconds leading up to our pick, I would have bet money we were taking Glenn.
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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                      On twitter last year all the Giant beat writers were convinced they were taking Glenn. Ralph V said that he was their highest graded player. Glenn tested through the roof and had the same versatility Pugh supposedly has having played multiple spots. He had good tape from the SEC at Guard and Tackle. Who was the best lineman Pugh lined up against? In 2011 Bruce Irvin "Trying to get that game" but this year Trevardo Williams. Glenn had tape against Clowney,Melvin Ingram,Courtny Upshaw, and Barkevious Mingo isnt that worth more.
                      Dare I even consider the thought and I'll probably get flamed for even suggesting it but Reese might have a weakness in regards to becoming prone to certain positions getting a "run on" during the draft. He mentioned how he took Wilson last year because he suspected a run on RBs and now he did the same for Pugh because all of the "bigs" were coming off the board. Passes on Glenn at the end of the 1st but he gladly takes Pugh in the middle of a 1st round. From a pure value standpoint, this doesn't even make sense honestly.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                        He gave pugh a B+??lol The guy was a mid 2nd rd prospect that went at pick 19.. Hes versatile yes, but theres plenty of versatile lineman out there.. Hes got some potential, and its a upgrade to our oline which is huge, but no way u can give Pugh a B+ grade, right below a A.. Thats crazy..

                        Overall, we've had a solid draft, and the pick of Damontre Moore has really solidified it for me, and as much as Hankins endurance worries me, he could be valuable if were to lose Linval down the rd, so its grown on me a bit more, and i do think Pugh will be a solid Guard for us, but the value was terrible..
                        Why do you say pugh was mid 2nd round prospect? He was rising up draft boards no way in hell he makes into the second. the bears would have jumped all over him right after us. IMO he was taken exactly where he should have been, the fact that he can play multiple line positions adds extra value to the pick. We drafted our RT day one and if need be a guy who can play guard and center. I don't see you logic in giving him a c- at all.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                          Hey I was a huge Wilson fan and I was the guy asking for us to draft him prior to the draft last year.

                          But, That's not what I am saying.

                          The Pugh pick is safe. He has a small chance of being a bust. That's ok, as I said the best drafting teams often aren't the teams that have the most home runs , but the fewest strike outs.


                          But, there is very little doubt that the Pugh pick was a need pick. Far more need than value, which is unlike Reese and this front office who is normally very good at avoiding having to pick a guy because we need him sooner rather than later. That is why the passing on Glenn now seems peculiar. I love David Wilson, I loved him at VT. But, I do not like being in a situation in the draft where we HAVE to pick a position NOW because the need is so dire, which is the position our front office found thsmelves in this year in part because they overlooked Glenn last year.
                          Had we drafted Glenn, then this year we would have AB and Ware as our top 2 Rbs, these 2 guys have a very checkered injury history. So, RB would be a dire need this year. Looking at this year's RB class, I think we made the right call.
                          Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by I Bleed Blue 56 View Post
                            I give it a C we needed a linebacker in the second. I like the Pugh pick because of the aging line. I domt like the second round pick at all. We should have gotten Brown and of course will watch another rookie linebacker flourish in the nfl. While our second round pick rotates and contributes some.
                            I don't think the fact we went OL in the 1st is why some folks are upset. I think some people are upset because of WHO we took in the 1st. Not saying we should've sold the farm for Lane Johnson or one of the guards - I just think it was a reach pick for a 2nd tier player.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                              Dare I even consider the thought and I'll probably get flamed for even suggesting it but Reese might have a weakness in regards to becoming prone to certain positions getting a "run on" during the draft. He mentioned how he took Wilson last year because he suspected a run on RBs and now he did the same for Pugh because all of the "bigs" were coming off the board. Passes on Glenn at the end of the 1st but he gladly takes Pugh in the middle of a 1st round. From a pure value standpoint, this doesn't even make sense honestly.
                              I think you raise a valid point. I'd say, though, one should consider the level of talent in last year's draft (remarkably high) than this year's (remarkably low). Think if Glenn - or Wilson, for that matter - are 2013 prospects, they're off the board mid-1st.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                                On twitter last year all the Giant beat writers were convinced they were taking Glenn. Ralph V said that he was their highest graded player. Glenn tested through the roof and had the same versatility Pugh supposedly has having played multiple spots. He had good tape from the SEC at Guard and Tackle. Who was the best lineman Pugh lined up against? In 2011 Bruce Irvin "Trying to get that game" but this year Trevardo Williams. Glenn had tape against Clowney,Melvin Ingram,Courtny Upshaw, and Barkevious Mingo isnt that worth more.
                                That is just not true. Glenn has better physicals. Definitely does not lack core strength as is the knock on Pugh and has adequate arm length. Glenn had awful mechanics and very sloppy footwork on tape. It wasn't all roses with Glenn as some people like to make it seem.
                                Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to “beat the market,” no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasn’t stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                                http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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