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The Most Honest Draft Thread You'll Read

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  • The Most Honest Draft Thread You'll Read

    Wonka.jpg

    *Sorry for the size. Click it to expand. Don't know how to make it bigger.

  • #2
    Ps:

    As for that short arm "red flag," for those keeping score at home, Justin Pugh has same arm length as 3-time All-Pro OT Joe Thomas #32.5 - From Art Stapleton

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
      Ps:

      As for that short arm "red flag," for those keeping score at home, Justin Pugh has same arm length as 3-time All-Pro OT Joe Thomas #32.5 - From Art Stapleton
      Joe Thomas is almost 6'7 though while Pugh is about 6'4 so you do have to factor that in the equation. The short arms doesn't mean he is disqualified from playing OT but it's going to be an uphill battle.

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      • #4
        Everyone wants linebackers, but just because we draft them doesn't mean they help us out.

        See Dillard, Wilkerson, Greg Jones, and Sintim. Paysinger might make the list next year.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RagTime Blue View Post
          Everyone wants linebackers, but just because we draft them doesn't mean they help us out.

          See Dillard, Wilkerson, Greg Jones, and Sintim. Paysinger might make the list next year.
          they didnt draft paysinger.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
            Joe Thomas is almost 6'7 though while Pugh is about 6'4 so you do have to factor that in the equation. The short arms doesn't mean he is disqualified from playing OT but it's going to be an uphill battle.
            Fair point, but the main knock on short arms would be keeping an opponent at bay and being tall doesn't exactly give one an advantage in that regard. It certainly isn't a GOOD thing to have shorter arms, but I don't think its as big of a hindrance as some seem to be making it.

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            • #7
              As for the point of this thread.

              Cant criticize a politician unless you are a politician?
              Cant criticize a sports official unless you are an official?
              Cant criticize a criminal unless you are a criminal?


              Its a logical fallacy to say you have to have the same experience to criticize someone of their opinion.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                Fair point, but the main knock on short arms would be keeping an opponent at bay and being tall doesn't exactly give one an advantage in that regard. It certainly isn't a GOOD thing to have shorter arms, but I don't think its as big of a hindrance as some seem to be making it.
                It's generally easier to get past players who are shorter on the edge but that does depend on the angles they take with their footwork. Pugh is fortunately technically sound with that but technique only gets you so far in this league. He will be an average to slightly above average RT in this league but fortunately, we don't have one of those on the roster already haha. I just disagree with most and think he has a higher ceiling on the inside.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                  As for the point of this thread.

                  Cant criticize a politician unless you are a politician?
                  Cant criticize a sports official unless you are an official?
                  Cant criticize a criminal unless you are a criminal?


                  Its a logical fallacy to say you have to have the same experience to criticize someone of their opinion.
                  I think that's a misinterpretation of the point. From what I'm reading is people don't like the positions we're drafting or the players we're drafting. It seems as though they are upset because they think we should draft, say, LB instead of QB because that's where they (the fan) sees a hole and there is a specific player they (the fan) covet.

                  And I get that. We're fans, we watch, we know where the team is lacking etc etc. We don't (for the most part, as fans) spend 40+ hours a week scouting players, watching tape, assessing the long term vs short term pros/cons of different positions, players, salary etc etc.

                  Jerry Reese and Co. spend their LIVES doing it. Its not part time. Its not just "oh hey, draft is in a few months! lemme peep these youtube vids or Google so police reports".

                  They spend hours, weeks, months, and, in some cases, years scouting these players and learning as much as they can. The front office (Coughlin included) also has a pretty good idea of what types of player/personality is coachable, moldable, will translate to the NFL life-style etc.

                  As a "for instance", we may brush off an Ogletree's off-field problems based on what we read about, but Reese and Co. interviewed him and got more facts than most of us, I'm sure, and talked to coaches and others. Through all that it can give them a pretty solid understanding of what the player might contribute, both positively and negatively, to a locker-room.

                  So can only a baker criticize a baker? Of course not. People know what they like the taste of. But if you know you like a particular baker's cakes and you yourself really have no idea what ingredients are needed, let alone how to mix it together to create the cake you eat and enjoy, then you really should keep your thoughts to yourself when at the grocery store with said baker because he likely has a better idea of what he needs than you, a man who's never even at the least worked in a bakery.
                  Last edited by ImElectric2; 04-27-2013, 05:20 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheEnigma View Post
                    It's generally easier to get past players who are shorter on the edge but that does depend on the angles they take with their footwork. Pugh is fortunately technically sound with that but technique only gets you so far in this league. He will be an average to slightly above average RT in this league but fortunately, we don't have one of those on the roster already haha. I just disagree with most and think he has a higher ceiling on the inside.
                    That's actually mu thought/hope is that we move him to guard (maybe center if he can pull it off). I know the criticism can come of "why take a guard that high when Flyod's available!" but, despite me really wanting Floyd there in those circumstances, I also wanted Warmack and would have been more than content with Warmack. If Pugh, as a guard or center, can be equal to or better than Warmack then I think it'll work out fine.

                    Again, I defer to the front office on something like this. I really don't think they would reach for a tackle/guard, likely to be guard over a d-tackle if they really had the d0tackle that much higher on their board, if at all higher. Look at the Prince draft. We needed a RB, everyone thought we were going RB, Ingram falls, ideal situation, Thomas I don't think was hurt, Webby was still lights out, Ross in nickle, seemingly set a CB....we take Prince.

                    Right call then, gotta think right call now. Time will tell, but that's just my thoughts.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ImElectric2 View Post
                      So can only a baker criticize a baker? Of course not. People know what they like the taste of. But if you know you like a particular baker's cakes and you yourself really have no idea what ingredients are needed, let alone how to mix it together to create the cake you eat and enjoy, then you really should keep your thoughts to yourself when at the grocery store with said baker because he likely has a better idea of what he needs than you, a man who's never even at the least worked in a bakery.
                      Lol, so you are apparently disagreeing with yourself.

                      You cant criticize a baker unless you worked in a bakery. Uh huh. If he puts poo in your cake you should be thrilled
                      Last edited by slipknottin; 04-27-2013, 05:24 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                        Lol, so you are apparently disagreeing with yourself.
                        Lol
                        My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.

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                        • #13
                          I think the problem is the same every year. We all have favorite players that get passed up by Reese & co.

                          Odds are we'll never know the reason they passed on someone, so we're forced to speculate that they botched it up by oversight.

                          And if our guy turns out to be better than theirs, well it's OBVIOUS that's what happened (red ink).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                            Lol, so you are apparently disagreeing with yourself.

                            You cant criticize a baker unless you worked in a bakery. Uh huh. If he puts poo in your cake you should be thrilled
                            No. I'm not. I think you're still mis-understanding me.

                            We can all have opinions. I just think people slagging this draft are being short-sighted and don't have a true idea on how to build and develop a roster.

                            A kid can have the opinion that vegetables are "yuckie" and that he should be able to eat candy all day. That's fine. But its ignorant and short sighted because the kid doesn't realize the nutritional value of the vegetables and how it will help his body and immune system grow.

                            Just like posters can have the opinion that the draft is bad and we should have taken other positions or players. That opinion is likely coming from a place of ignorance because they don't know half as much about these players or roster development and growth as they would like to believe. Hell, NFL front offices don't have it down pat, but some, the Giants especially, have a pretty good handle on how to be as successful as possible without an exact science.

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                            • #15
                              And for the record, guy....I'm not saying I know more than anyone else. I know less than most of you about the draft and the players coming out of it. But I'm wise enough to know my shortcomings and that the people in our war-room definitely know more than me or 99% of this board that's asking "wtf Reese is thinking".

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