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  • 2018 OL

    So we know how utterly terrible this group is and it may well derail the high hopes we have for this season. If anyone watched the Vikings last night, you saw a team with a brand new starting 5 on the OL from last year. And Minnesota's OL from last year was as bad if not worse than ours. So how did they do it and is it a formula we can follow? Their OL last night looked terrific

    Minnesota signed two new OTs in FA. Riley Reiff is a guy I thought the Giants should look into. I thought he got paid a little too much but looking at his performance last night, the Vikings may have been right there. Their LG was Nick Easton, who is a 3rd year UDFA that was drafted as a C. Pat Elflein was their 3rd round pick this year and he is the C. Their RG was Joe Berger was used to be their starting C and was moved to RG.

    So based on this, what do we do? Pugh and Richburg are both FAs. I would personally keep Pugh and let Richburg walk, but Pugh is going to cost a lot. Like it or not, Ereck Flowers will play somewhere on this OL. He is not a LT and I dont think he can play tackle at all on this level, but the obvious move is moving him to RT. John Jerry is terrible and his contract is easy to dump. So let him walk and as we have seen in FA the past 2 years, no team values him but us, so if we want to bring him back as a backup, we can do so at a vet minimum. Hart is also terrible and can be outright released. We will need to reach into the draft to procure at least one starter and possibly two for next year. So here is my first chance at a 2018 OL:

    Configuration 1

    LT - Donald Penn - FA signing. Penn is now 34, and he may not be brought back by Oakland next year. We had interest last year but wanted him to play RT. His age should mean nothing here as he is still a terrific player. 2 years $14mil with $8 guaranteed
    LG - Pugh - Pugh is going to cost us, but I think he is above average at LG and with better players around him should be fine. Resign 5 years $55mil with half guaranteed
    C - Frank Ragnow - Arkansas - Here is our 2nd round pick. Ragnow is as close to a Travis Frederick level prospect as there has been. He is also 6'5" 320 and has no problem with power. He will help the run game immensely. There will be some growing pains but we have to get this OL set for the present and future.
    RG - Quenton Nelson - Notre Dame - Here is our 1st round pick. Starting 2 rookies on our OL is risky but I am going by the premise that it can't be worse than what we have now. Nelson is a beast. His run blocking is terrific and he has improved as a pass blocker since last year. He has Pro Bowl level talent.
    RT - Ereck Flowers - Yuck, but we dont have much of a choice here.

    I have a couple of other thoughts on possible configurations but want to see some feedback first.


  • #2
    You know much more about the draft than I do so I can't comment much about that.............other than FA is a very expensive way to build a team, especially OL.

    I can comment on this. Our GM's whole premise for three years has been "these guys are very young and continuity means everything on the OL."
    Next year, they will still be very young and if 3 years together counts for something,, 4 years should be even better, right?

    My point is that the most critical factor in upgrading our OL is an attitude adjustment and a clearing of the blind spot by our GM.
    For most here the reality of what we had on the OL was clear as can be two years ago and yet our GM wouldn't accept it. I am not certain that this kick in the teeth will change it but I sure hope it will.

    No one remembers who came in second.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jomo View Post
      You know much more about the draft than I do so I can't comment much about that.............other than FA is a very expensive way to build a team, especially OL.

      I can comment on this. Our GM's whole premise for three years has been "these guys are very young and continuity means everything on the OL."
      Next year, they will still be very young and if 3 years together counts for something,, 4 years should be even better, right?

      My point is that the most critical factor in upgrading our OL is an attitude adjustment and a clearing of the blind spot by our GM.
      For most here the reality of what we had on the OL was clear as can be two years ago and yet our GM wouldn't accept it. I am not certain that this kick in the teeth will change it but I sure hope it will.
      I agree with the continuity thing and I held my hat on that as well for this season. But continuity means nothing if the players have no talent. And our starting LT, RG and RT are replacement level at best. And Richburg is very average.

      I have defended Reese as a good GM, but if this season goes off the rails, his job should be on the line.

      Comment


      • #4
        nelson may not be there when we pick though.

        lamar jackson might be though. i'd take him all day and twice on sunday.

        then we target oline in rounds 2 and 3. I would love that plan personally.

        but basically 2018 is a deep Oline class, and we could easily grab 2 very good Olineman in rounds 1-3. Maybe 3 olineman in the draft.

        Connor Williams or Orlando Brown and Mike Mcglinchy come to mind in round 1 also.

        There will be some very good guard prospects available in 2nd 3rd round as well i would think.

        IF hart can get healthy and prove to be consistent enough, He may end up being a good swing tackle if nothing else. you can't judge aplayer that had such a good preseason by an outing where he was injured.

        I'd like to see what flowers could do at guard or Right Tackle. His biggest struggle seem to be in space. I read that he has anchored much better this year against bull rushes. so if he can withstand the push and is Not great but better. Guard may be Worth a try.

        I'd love to see Fluker actually get in good shape this offseason and learn the playbook as i think he has potential to surprise and become more than serviceable. His only issues seem to be mental (not knowing the plays or covering the stunts) and being a bit too fat.

        Same with wheeler. Lets see what an offseason of nfl training program does for him. Will getting stronger help him? Knowing the plays, will that help?

        biz is likely going nowhere. was absolutely terrible in the preseason from what i saw.

        jerry is gone. exactly what you said.

        need a center in FA or the draft if richburg goes. we could have drafted a center this year.2 good ones were available. look to round 3 for a center as they generally drop to later rounds. but we are going to need DRC's replacement also. LB help perhaps. RB perhaps.... not sure if Jerry Reese will go 3 Olineman in one draft is the point.

        i like jones as a good back up center and back up guard.

        pugh will be expensive. A lot will depend if he gets resigned or not.

        a lot will also depend if we get a good FA starter from elsewhere or not.

        I think its not as bad as it appears. we are 2 players away from having a decent Oline, if we re sign richburg or pugh.. we could make due with some of the guys on the roster if we draft 2 studs.

        2 very good draft picks is what is needed IMO. This is the draft to do that.

        if we put together an Oline with 2 stud rookies, and 3 serviceable guys, we will be fine next year methinks.

        in any case i'd be very surprised if we draft more than 2 olineman.

        it would also surprise me to bring in more than 1 starter Fa from another team.

        i don't see JR and the FO seeing it as as desperate situation as the fans see it. I think they will address it for sure though.

        point is they will expect at least a couple of borderline guys we have to ascend/step up next year that the fans have written off completely and they may not be wrong to think that.

        just some random thoughts


        2 cents

        PS my question is regarding this year and is this. if every team dares us to run the ball, and plays to prevent our passing game, why do we not take them up on that? why not simply put our best 5 run blocking lineman in there and run the dang ball. if that means jerry sits and fluker plays so be it. if that means richburg sits and jones plays so be it. i don't what it means, but why are they not thinking that way? what would you do this year tdawg? i'm sincerely asking

        Comment


        • #5
          Flowers - Wheeler - Jones - Jerry - 1st round rookie

          Comment


          • #6
            What I would do? Keep Pugh and move him to tackle. Get two REAL guards that can that play on both sides of Richburg and let Wheeler and Flowers battle it out for the LT.

            that is the simplest solution that allows you to bring just two new pieces that would help out the OL immensely.

            or maybe don't resign Richburg and pick up Ragnow and another guard prospect and let Fluker or Jones battle it out for the other guard spot.

            Either way this line needs an upgrade at guard in the Chris Snee mold, the run game will never get going without it.

            Comment


            • #7
              You are much more informed than myself and at this point everything sounds real good to me. I am so disgusted. We've been talking about this and witnessing this now for 2 years. Why are the Giants so adamant about keeping the same personnel that has failed ? This is gut wrenching frustration for me I can hardly even discuss this anymore without becoming furious. Every football fan knew the O line was the " main " problem. It makes me so angry, we could have fixed this or at least improved it over the last 2 years.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CRF11504 View Post
                Flowers - Wheeler - Jones - Jerry - 1st round rookie
                I will take worse OL than 2017 for 10 Alex! This is wholeheartedly terrible.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You know the OL is bad when folks like Mike and Mike and every other talking head is talking about how bad they are. They keep lumping the Giants and Seahawks together as teams with Super Bowl aspirations being held back by their putrid OL.

                  If these fools can see it, why can't our FO?
                  NFL Draft (Realistic Hope):

                  Rd 1
                  Garrett Bolles - OT
                  David Njoku - TE
                  Zach Cunningham - OLB

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For fun how about Pugh LT, richberg LG, jones C, fluker RG, flowers RT tomorrow

                    and the future I don't care as long as most of these guys are replaced or no longer starters. Wouldn't be sad to see any one of hem go.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd love for us to drsft Quentin Nelson, OG, Notre Dame or Connor Williams, LT, Texas in the1st and maybe Billy Price, OG/C, Ohio St in the 2nd to fix our OL. Maybe grab Iman Marshall, CB, USC, in the 3rd

                      LT: Williams
                      LG: Pugh
                      C: Price
                      RG: Jerry
                      RT: Flowers

                      OR

                      LT: Flowers
                      LG: Pugh
                      C: Price
                      RG: Nelson
                      RT: Hart/Fluker
                      Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's sad that we're even having this discussion but it's definitely valid.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TE88 View Post
                          For fun how about Pugh LT, richberg LG, jones C, fluker RG, flowers RT tomorrow

                          and the future I don't care as long as most of these guys are replaced or no longer starters. Wouldn't be sad to see any one of hem go.
                          Richburg was terrible at guard. He's definitely not an answer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Idk if we'll be in a position to grab a guy who'll be a solid starter at LT in the 1st. I'd rather grab a vet like Penn, draft a RT, G, or even a RB in the 1st, and then Billy Price or Ragnow or even Ivey in the 2nd. Say we grab Penn, get McGlinchey in the 1st, and Price in the 2nd. We'd be solid I think now and in the future with McGlinchey hopefully moving to LT down the road.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I dont think its possible to fix the line now in 1 offseason. You need to add someone in the top 3 rounds at least every other draft. How they ignored the line this offseason I still don't understand

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