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High Draft Pick - Franchise QB The Andrew Luck Story

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  • High Draft Pick - Franchise QB The Andrew Luck Story

    So one of the prevalent themes on this board is "hoping" (or not minding if) the Giants lose so we can draft the next franchise QB.

    Let's remember Andrew Luck.

    The greatest QB prospect since Elway. The transition from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck seemed godsend for the Colts.

    Flash forward 5 years...

    The dude has been pretty pedestrian his career. Has taken an absolute beating and is already showing signs of physical regression due to said beating.

    The Colts initially finished 11-5 for his first three seasons but did not have much playoff success.

    They have finished with a top 8 offense twice in those five seasons and a below average offense every other season.

    They've been 8-8 the past two complete seasons.

    And this is playing in one of the worst divisions in the NFL since he was drafted.

    My point: getting a high draft pick and selecting a "franchise" QB doesn't guarantee anything. Especially when we suffer from a poorly constructed OL much like the Colts.

    Not it to mention:

    1. We play in a far tougher division with good young teams.

    2. When's the last time this team successfully developed a QB? Eli? Sure, kind of. Before that?

    3. Look at the other top QBs taken over the past 10-15 years. How many have panned out?

    Ive always contended that you just need a "good enough" QB. But surround him with a great run game and a stout defense.

  • #2
    There's logic in that thinking.

    Remember the NYG won an SB with Hostetler,

    Eli could quite easily also be classified as a "good enough" QB.
    Fan since 1970.
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    "If practice makes perfect and perfection is impossible, why practice?"-- Joe Don Looney

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    • #3
      Originally posted by buried_in_snow View Post
      So one of the prevalent themes on this board is "hoping" (or not minding if) the Giants lose so we can draft the next franchise QB.

      Let's remember Andrew Luck.

      The greatest QB prospect since Elway. The transition from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck seemed godsend for the Colts.

      Flash forward 5 years...

      The dude has been pretty pedestrian his career. Has taken an absolute beating and is already showing signs of physical regression due to said beating.

      The Colts initially finished 11-5 for his first three seasons but did not have much playoff success.

      They have finished with a top 8 offense twice in those five seasons and a below average offense every other season.

      They've been 8-8 the past two complete seasons.

      And this is playing in one of the worst divisions in the NFL since he was drafted.

      My point: getting a high draft pick and selecting a "franchise" QB doesn't guarantee anything. Especially when we suffer from a poorly constructed OL much like the Colts.

      Not it to mention:

      1. We play in a far tougher division with good young teams.

      2. When's the last time this team successfully developed a QB? Eli? Sure, kind of. Before that?

      3. Look at the other top QBs taken over the past 10-15 years. How many have panned out?

      Ive always contended that you just need a "good enough" QB. But surround him with a great run game and a stout defense.
      yes. also, a QB that is a good fit for the Offense you are running... WCO needs a mobile QB good at avoiding rushers, throwing on the run, scrambling for first downs...... You need a good QB, that is a good fit, but you can't sell the farm to get one either.... if we have a high draft pick, we won't be selling the farm moving up to get him...so what's the problem?

      You have to draft a QB somewhere, sometime, no?

      we do not know how long & how well eli will play and we do not know what we have in davis webb. But while we have a high draft pick, if the Giants don't select a QB, they may regret it with Eli aging into his twilight years. I get your point though. IF we can get 5 starters instead or a king's ransom for the pick etc. It's an interesting debate, but generally the feeling is you take a top prospect QB when you can.
      Last edited by bigpoppy; 10-16-2017, 04:45 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bigpoppy View Post

        yes. also, a QB that is a good fit for the Offense you are running... WCO needs a mobile QB good at avoiding rushers, throwing on the run, scrambling for first downs...... You need a good QB, that is a good fit, but you can't sell the farm to get one either.... if we have a high draft pick, we won't be selling the farm moving up to get him...so what's the problem?
        I agree. QB needs to match the system. But I also don't believe you draft a top QB pick based on the incumbent system. I for one surely do not want us drafting a QB based on McAdoo. I want a QB who translates to the NFL best. Period.

        You have to draft a QB somewhere, sometime, no?
        Yes.

        But my point is most high pick QBs do not pan out. So it's risky. And we don't need the "next Elway" unknown. We just need a good enough QB. Which isn't necessarily found atop a draft.

        we do not know how long & how well eli will play and we do not know what we have in davis webb. But while we have a high draft pick, if the Giants don't select a QB, they may regret it with Eli aging into his twilight years. I get your point though. IF we can get 5 starters instead or a king's ransom for the pick etc. It's an interesting debate, but generally the feeling is you take a top prospect QB when you can.
        For what it's worth I think Eli has been expired for a season-plus now. Especially if you take his production vs his contract into consideration.

        I don't know what the solution is, I'm just voicing my opinion to those who want a high draft pick to take one of the hyped QB prospects in April.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by buried_in_snow View Post
          So one of the prevalent themes on this board is "hoping" (or not minding if) the Giants lose so we can draft the next franchise QB.

          Let's remember Andrew Luck.

          The greatest QB prospect since Elway. The transition from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck seemed godsend for the Colts.

          Flash forward 5 years...

          The dude has been pretty pedestrian his career. Has taken an absolute beating and is already showing signs of physical regression due to said beating.

          The Colts initially finished 11-5 for his first three seasons but did not have much playoff success.

          They have finished with a top 8 offense twice in those five seasons and a below average offense every other season.

          They've been 8-8 the past two complete seasons.

          And this is playing in one of the worst divisions in the NFL since he was drafted.

          My point: getting a high draft pick and selecting a "franchise" QB doesn't guarantee anything. Especially when we suffer from a poorly constructed OL much like the Colts.

          Not it to mention:

          1. We play in a far tougher division with good young teams.

          2. When's the last time this team successfully developed a QB? Eli? Sure, kind of. Before that?

          3. Look at the other top QBs taken over the past 10-15 years. How many have panned out?

          Ive always contended that you just need a "good enough" QB. But surround him with a great run game and a stout defense.
          Peyton went on to play in 2 More SBs and won 1. It also proves you have a good one you keep him as long as you can.
          The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TEM View Post

            Peyton went on to play in 2 More SBs and won 1. It also proves you have a good one you keep him as long as you can.
            True about Peyton.

            But let's not overstate that SB he won. He was pretty much dismal in 2015 and pretty awful in the SB.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by buried_in_snow View Post

              True about Peyton.

              But let's not overstate that SB he won. He was pretty much dismal in 2015 and pretty awful in the SB.
              It shows with his leadership what can be accomplished 2 trips.. The Colts could have had a better shot with him. That first overall was worth a lower first a second and a first in the next years draft. What team could they have built with 2 firsts and 3 seconds . The Colts were abysmal and they took the one thing the did not need at that time.
              Last edited by TEM; 10-17-2017, 07:36 AM.
              The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by buried_in_snow View Post
                The dude has been pretty pedestrian his career. Has taken an absolute beating and is already showing signs of physical regression due to said beating.
                He hasn't been pedestrian, he has been annihilated by a horrible GM/Ownership who refuse to spend the money to protect him. Someone in the Colts org should be in jail for what they did to that kid.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DandyDon View Post

                  He hasn't been pedestrian, he has been annihilated by a horrible GM/Ownership who refuse to spend the money to protect him. Someone in the Colts org should be in jail for what they did to that kid.
                  I agree with what their ownership and GM have done. Which ties into my point about the Giants. And how that has affected Luck's career

                  But his numbers don't lie. 87 QB rating and 3-3 playoff record. All three loses being blow outs.

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                  • #10
                    i do agree with what you're saying that there is no such thing as a sure fire QB. there have been countless times when highly regarded QBs coming out of college have been unsuccessful in the nfl. whether it was the situation they were in, the coaches, injuries, you can't just draft someone and put this expectation that they can save your franchise all on there own. if you need a QB, by all means take him, but don't expect to be contenders if you don't put the pieces aound him.

                    i do, however, not put Andrew Luck in that bust catagory. not even close. when healthy, he is maybe the most talented QB behind Aaron Rodgers. the fact that the colts were able to win 8 games the past few seasons is telling to how good he is because he has absolutely nothing to work with outside of maybe TY Hilton. an OL that has been terrible for most of his time since he's drafted, a running game led by Frank Gore(great player but he is like 100 in RB yrs) and a defense that has also been terrible since he arrived.

                    the GM and owner in Indy have sabatoged Luck from being successful and it's a damn shame. they only recently started to draft/sign better(Marlon Mack comes to mind) and if i was him, id be in no hurry to return to the field either knowing i've been getting my *** kicked since i arrived. his career maybe shortened because of there ownership

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                    • #11
                      Maybe the NYG can trade for Luck.
                      Fan since 1970.
                      ---------------------





                      ----------------------------------------------
                      "If practice makes perfect and perfection is impossible, why practice?"-- Joe Don Looney

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                      • #12
                        Draft picks are a lottery ticket. Never understood the fans who constantly clamor to give up established players for draft picks.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nygfan0816 View Post
                          i do agree with what you're saying that there is no such thing as a sure fire QB. there have been countless times when highly regarded QBs coming out of college have been unsuccessful in the nfl. whether it was the situation they were in, the coaches, injuries, you can't just draft someone and put this expectation that they can save your franchise all on there own. if you need a QB, by all means take him, but don't expect to be contenders if you don't put the pieces aound him.

                          i do, however, not put Andrew Luck in that bust catagory. not even close. when healthy, he is maybe the most talented QB behind Aaron Rodgers. the fact that the colts were able to win 8 games the past few seasons is telling to how good he is because he has absolutely nothing to work with outside of maybe TY Hilton. an OL that has been terrible for most of his time since he's drafted, a running game led by Frank Gore(great player but he is like 100 in RB yrs) and a defense that has also been terrible since he arrived.

                          the GM and owner in Indy have sabatoged Luck from being successful and it's a damn shame. they only recently started to draft/sign better(Marlon Mack comes to mind) and if i was him, id be in no hurry to return to the field either knowing i've been getting my *** kicked since i arrived. his career maybe shortened because of there ownership
                          By no means am I calling Luck a bust. Hopefully that was clear in my post.

                          Point is: when you're 1-15 or 2-14 and selecting 1st overall, it's for a reason. And it's not because you're one QB away from being contenders.

                          It usually signifies major major flaws and/or gaps in your entire roster and coaching staff.

                          So if the Giants are selecting close to the top of the draft it's not solely because of Eli Manning.

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