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Tape Comparison (Not Eli vs. Rosen/Darnold.....Webb vs. Rosen/Darnold)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TCHOF View Post

    Eli's completion rate as a sophomore was 63% and as a senior was 62% (overall college completion rate of 60.8).

    Allen's completion rate as a junior was also 56% (overall college completion rate of 56%).

    I'm not saying that he can't be a good player, but the past history of success with guys with college completion rates under 57% is not good.

    https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/...rom-josh-allen
    All you have to do is a simple google search about the Wyoming receivers. First article that comes up: "Drops are piling up for Wyoming receivers". People are reading way too much into the completion percentage. The guy is a natural leader and is going to be a star. Watch his first three scoring drives from the bowl game. Freaking beautiful. There are starting NFL QBs who wouldn't have made those plays/throws and one of them starts for the Giants.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by giants8493 View Post

      Eli Manning after his junior year was a 58%

      Although your right it is still way lower then what you would have liked to see.

      I haven't watched Allen play much but it seems like his team was terrible. I can't speak to how many were bad throws and how many were drops. Probably a little of both.

      Allen seems like the most gritty of the top guys though..
      FYI....Rosen was 59% last year....

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BlueJayC View Post
        I'm reading all these articles about what Gettleman sees on tape with Eli will dictate whether he drafts a QB and in particular Rosen/Darnold.......he should be looking at Webb's college tape (2016 in particular) and comparing it to Rosen/Darnold......this will dictate whether you draft a new QB or develop the one you have.

        This is a rare circumstance where the QB you have (Webb) has played against the QB's you're looking at.....same division....against the same defenses......head-to-head matches included........this is a huge benefit to the Giants and Gettleman.

        In my opinion what he sees from Eli on tape has less of an impact on drafting a QB than what he sees from Webb on tape in comparison to these other QB's.

        Me personally if you're gonna take a QB I'd rather have the kid Allen form Wyoming who's played in cold weather climates rather than these two pretty boys who have played their entire collegiate and HS careers in sunny California.....
        Great thread Blue Jay, I love it. The Webb comparison is so valid, and lucky enough vs the same competition in a number of games. Wow that's a miracle.

        I would like to see more of Allen also. 6'5'', 230, strong arm, mobile, a young thin Big Ben is who he is compared to. Plus if you can throw in Colorado you can throw in Jersey.

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        • #34
          Darnold needs to leave all conversations about the Giants. Why is he still being talked about? The guy flat out isn't that good. If you watch him, then you know this. He was overhyped following a Rose Bowl game from over a year ago and under-performed all year. He turns the ball over, is not strong with the football, and is really not that quick on his feet. He also doesn't even look that fit. People keep judging Josh Allen based on history so how about a little history for those who keep talking about Darnold. When was the last time a overhyped USC QB had success in the NFL? Carson Palmer? Was he even that successful in the NFL? How did John David, Booty, Barkley, Leinart, Sanchez, etc. turn out? Awful.

          Let's leave the sunshine boys out of the discussion and take the gritty, tough, cold-weather kid from Wyoming who is a beast and plays with a ton of fire.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by NYG9289 View Post
            Darnold needs to leave all conversations about the Giants. Why is he still being talked about? The guy flat out isn't that good. If you watch him, then you know this. He was overhyped following a Rose Bowl game from over a year ago and under-performed all year. He turns the ball over, is not strong with the football, and is really not that quick on his feet. He also doesn't even look that fit. People keep judging Josh Allen based on history so how about a little history for those who keep talking about Darnold. When was the last time a overhyped USC QB had success in the NFL? Carson Palmer? Was he even that successful in the NFL? How did John David, Booty, Barkley, Leinart, Sanchez, etc. turn out? Awful.

            Let's leave the sunshine boys out of the discussion and take the gritty, tough, cold-weather kid from Wyoming who is a beast and plays with a ton of fire.
            I don't think he's relevant because I doubt he's coming out anyway.
            It's not Eli's fault....It's the chemtrails!!!!

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            • #36
              I agree 100% Darnold needs to go back to college..just another overhyped USC QB!!!!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by NYG9289 View Post

                All you have to do is a simple google search about the Wyoming receivers. First article that comes up: "Drops are piling up for Wyoming receivers". People are reading way too much into the completion percentage. The guy is a natural leader and is going to be a star. Watch his first three scoring drives from the bowl game. Freaking beautiful. There are starting NFL QBs who wouldn't have made those plays/throws and one of them starts for the Giants.
                As I said, I'm not saying that he can't be good. But the NFL history of college QB's with under 57% completion rates has to give you some pause.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by NYG9289 View Post
                  Darnold needs to leave all conversations about the Giants. Why is he still being talked about? The guy flat out isn't that good. If you watch him, then you know this. He was overhyped following a Rose Bowl game from over a year ago and under-performed all year. He turns the ball over, is not strong with the football, and is really not that quick on his feet. He also doesn't even look that fit. People keep judging Josh Allen based on history so how about a little history for those who keep talking about Darnold. When was the last time a overhyped USC QB had success in the NFL? Carson Palmer? Was he even that successful in the NFL? How did John David, Booty, Barkley, Leinart, Sanchez, etc. turn out? Awful.

                  Let's leave the sunshine boys out of the discussion and take the gritty, tough, cold-weather kid from Wyoming who is a beast and plays with a ton of fire.
                  I can't imagine for the life of me saying that Darnold is overrated on film and then in the next sentence saying to take Allen! Darnold should go back...he is not ready to play in the NFL now. Have you watched any of Josh Allen? The guy could barely throw for over 200 yards a game and was shut down by the likes of Hawaii. Look at his games against Iowa and Oregon. Putrid.

                  And if you actually watch the USC/Ohio State game, you see Darnold doing things that most QBs cannot. His team was clearly over matched and did not belong on the same field with Ohio State, yet he made a ton of big plays and threw for almost 400 yards. There is no comparison between Darnold and Allen.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by NYG9289 View Post
                    Darnold needs to leave all conversations about the Giants. Why is he still being talked about? The guy flat out isn't that good. If you watch him, then you know this. He was overhyped following a Rose Bowl game from over a year ago and under-performed all year. He turns the ball over, is not strong with the football, and is really not that quick on his feet. He also doesn't even look that fit. People keep judging Josh Allen based on history so how about a little history for those who keep talking about Darnold. When was the last time a overhyped USC QB had success in the NFL? Carson Palmer? Was he even that successful in the NFL? How did John David, Booty, Barkley, Leinart, Sanchez, etc. turn out? Awful.

                    Let's leave the sunshine boys out of the discussion and take the gritty, tough, cold-weather kid from Wyoming who is a beast and plays with a ton of fire.
                    Palmer was damn good before Tommy John surgery, at least that's how I remember it.
                    Because of all of the effort and examination being poured into these predictions, the draft is a robust market that, in the aggregate, does a good job of sorting prospects from top to bottom.1 Yet despite so many people trying to ďbeat the market,Ē no single actor can do it consistently. Abnormal returns are likely due to luck, not skill. But that hasnít stopped NFL executives from behaving with the confidence of traders.

                    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...eat-the-draft/

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by giants8493 View Post

                      Eli Manning after his junior year was a 58%
                      He didn't come out after his JR year he came out after his SR year with a 62.4%. Also Allen has a 56% for his career. So that is multiple years of bad accuracy.
                      LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                      "Next man up"

                      "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by B&RWarrior View Post

                        Palmer was damn good before Tommy John surgery, at least that's how I remember it.
                        He played 15 seasons, and only played in 4 playoff games (3 of which he lost)...

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BlueJayC View Post
                          I'm reading all these articles about what Gettleman sees on tape with Eli will dictate whether he drafts a QB and in particular Rosen/Darnold.......he should be looking at Webb's college tape (2016 in particular) and comparing it to Rosen/Darnold......this will dictate whether you draft a new QB or develop the one you have.

                          This is a rare circumstance where the QB you have (Webb) has played against the QB's you're looking at.....same division....against the same defenses......head-to-head matches included........this is a huge benefit to the Giants and Gettleman.

                          In my opinion what he sees from Eli on tape has less of an impact on drafting a QB than what he sees from Webb on tape in comparison to these other QB's.

                          Me personally if you're gonna take a QB I'd rather have the kid Allen form Wyoming who's played in cold weather climates rather than these two pretty boys who have played their entire collegiate and HS careers in sunny California.....
                          Love the logic and I hope this is something he does with the new head coach. I have looked at some of Webb's tapes and I don't see much difference between him and any of the quarterbacks coming out in this draft but I am not an analysis. Also I would think Webb would be better off at this point being in the NFL for one year and sitting behind Eli than any rookie coming out
                          That's why we discuss, We all have different perspectives. Ride and Die with the NY Giants

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                            Allen had a 56% completion rate in college this year. The chances of success in the NFL with a college completion rate that low are not good.
                            Too be fair he lost a lot of talent around him to graduation and the NFL.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                              Allen had a 56% completion rate in college this year. The chances of success in the NFL with a college completion rate that low are not good.
                              To be fair there isnít much talent around him and he has a bad OL and WRís who have had a lot of dropped passes does this sound familiar?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by sg92 View Post

                                It's still a valid point that having a track record of playing in the cold would be a plus.
                                Yeah it def does. I really like josh allen.

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