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  • #16
    Originally posted by Delicreep View Post
    So I am not sure this is going to hit home with you, but I am going to start with a little gem we toss around at my office: "because at some point, you just have to"

    Now I am sure there are a million ways to make that sentence seem ridiculous on it's face, and my response would be that all of them are cases where you just didn't have to, so let's just skip over that step.

    If your position is that the Giants shouldn't blindly take a QB #2, then I would like to think everyone would agree with that. If the idea is that the Giants should be 100% certain before selecting a QB #2, then I think we have an issue with the reality of the NFL transition.

    But here's the thing: if you do your homework, and you think that there is a QB who could lead the franchise for a decade, you take him and you don't second guess yourself.

    This is where I think most people land, and all of us, no matter what position we take, have a fraction of the data our scouting department has - the only question is can they process that data correctly?
    Nailed it

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post

      Very true. So say they pass on a QB this year and go 8-8, which will probably put them outside of the range to get a franchise guy. Is everyone okay with the fact that you will have to deal about 4-5 prime picks to get up high enough to take one?
      Nope. Not okay. Which I think we both agree is why our current draft position is awesome, teams like the Cards would kill for it.

      If the FO feels there are franchise QBs available at #2 you take them. If they pass and if one or more of Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen go on to become Franchise QB's Gettlemen did not do his job.

      Comment


      • #18
        Im in love with a running back instead. We need to get back to ground and pound football. I wouldn't mind them grabbing a running back then address the O-line in with picks from 2nd or 3rd Rd down

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by tdawg1413 View Post
          You can miss on any position!
          And its the thing that everyone seems to ignore in posts like this. If youre going to analyze data about qbs like this, you have to do it for every other position or your findings are invalid and have zero context.

          Also love how these people seem to be convinced any QB we draft will bust, but are convinced we have one in the third round last year that wont. People just feel more comfortable because hes already on the team so they assume hes gonna work out and whoever we draft wont.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
            I keep reading the following on these boards "as long as we draft a qb this year" and "need to draft a qb" and "we would be foolish not to draft a QB" etc etc etc.

            Where is this coming from? Let's do some basic math....

            10 QB's get drafted each year. Typically 3-4 QBs are drafted in the first round each year. Over the course of 10 years, that is 100 QB's that get drafted and around 40 QBs drafted in the first round.

            Now... If you are still with me... there are around 12 franchise QB's capable of winning a super bowl in the NFL at any given time. Typically, around 6 of the 12 have been in the league well over 10 years. Additionally, approximately half of the 12 franchise QB's aren't even drafted in the first round. Some don't even become a franchise QB until with their second team (Brees and others).

            Let me simplify this for you. On average, every 10 years, around around 5 - 6 QB's drafted in the first round become legit franchise QB's capable of leading a team to multiple super bowls (or even 1 super bowl). The other 5 - 6 franchise QBs are drafted in rounds 2 - 7 (Wilson, Brady, Brees etc) or not even drafted by the team (Brees etc).

            So drafting a QB in the first round - you have about a 5 out of 40 chance to land a legit one. Overall you have a 10 out of 1000 chance of landing a legit one.

            Now, we have a team with glaring holes everywhere, especially in the spot most crucial to a QB's success - offensive line.

            The worst thing we can do right now is draft a QB early and miss. Unless we are 10000000% sure we found a special QB, WE SHOULD NOT WASTE THIS PICK ON A QB! Keep in mind, you have about a 5 out of 40 chance. Whopping 12% chance of hitting a winner!!!!!

            I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend by our fans. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW!!!!! Even if Eli is done, no good QB is going to make a difference until the other holes are fixed. Maybe in 2 - 3 years it could be the piece we need and here is the kicker - Our chances of finding a franchise QB then (either in draft of FA) is just as good as it is now. News flash - if we don't solve the other issues, we will have more early first round picks the next few years.

            I don't love any of the QB's in this draft (I could be wrong) but I don't see how anyone thinks this group of QB's includes a can't miss prospect. Why are we insisting we roll the dice when we have other significant holes to fill?

            I DONT GET IT! Help me understand......
            QB is the most important position in sports. We have a declining one who is 37. That is why you take the shot.

            Do we have a OT issue? yup. Whats the success rate of taking a OT in the top 10 in the last 10 or so years? I've seen more busts from this position enter the league recently than any other.

            If you're going to take a risk, take one at the most important position and be a little proactive and not reactive. IMO

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by u2good View Post


              What I'd like to ask the people that are so convinced The Giants should draft a QB is - what exactly IS your problem with Davis Webb?
              Id like to ask the people that are so convinced that Davis Webb can be the future franchise QB, why exactly they think that?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by IBleedblue2323 View Post
                Im in love with a running back instead. We need to get back to ground and pound football. I wouldn't mind them grabbing a running back then address the O-line in with picks from 2nd or 3rd Rd down
                Thats why i want Saquan Berkley. People gotta think if defenses have to stop him in the run game...then they have to stop the passing game with Odell...a duel threat for years to come

                Comment


                • #23
                  I am a huge fan of roquan smith after trading back a few slots. Win-win

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by u2good View Post

                    I completely agree.

                    What I'd like to ask the people that are so convinced The Giants should draft a QB is - what exactly IS your problem with Davis Webb?

                    You expect the 2nd pick in the NFL draft to be an immediate starter, whether good or bad. But in this particular case, he would compete with Webb for the start. So, you're STILL going to have an untested QB as a backup with no trade value. What do you do then, especially if you only have two sub-par
                    OL returning without a new contract?

                    In the same scenario, an OT, for example, may not be suited to start at LT, but could very well start as RT or G.

                    I agree that my choice - Quenton Nelson - may not deserve the 2nd pick. That's why YOU TRADE DOWN.

                    Also, what's wrong with trading with, say Buffalo, for a 2019 pick in the first? That IS fathomable right?
                    The bills could be picking 32nd next year, theoretically. So what good would that do if you still need a QB?

                    You would need at least 2 additional first rounders in the next draft(3 total) in order to be safe. You could do that by trading down to 4 5 or 6 with cleveland denver or the jets and then trading that pick with the bills after acquiring. the double trade down is risky though because what guarantee do you have the bills don't go trade with the cults at 3 or cleveland at 4 after you already traded with denver or the jets. they may not want to trade with you is the point. What sucks about it is that the colts and browns own 3 and 4 and are not likely to be trade partners in any scenario. If you can convince the colts or browns to trade with you because they want barkley, you are in business to double trade. You'd be selling ice to eskimos though, since e1 knows you want a Qb or a trade down. Good luck with that. Then again there have been some crazy trades to move up 1 or 2 spots, so ya never know.

                    Davis webb does not look quick enough through reads nor does he show enough zip on short to intermediate passes. Can he handle the speed of the NFL game? Same trouble yousee with guys like hackenberg and Paxton Lynch and the like. Other than that he looks good to me. Time will tell if he can get more lightning in his processing and throwing. I believe he can rip it, and that with development he should get quicker through reads and decision making, but i've yet to see it.

                    2 cents
                    Last edited by bigpoppy; 01-09-2018, 03:43 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
                      I keep reading the following on these boards "as long as we draft a qb this year" and "need to draft a qb" and "we would be foolish not to draft a QB" etc etc etc.

                      Where is this coming from? Let's do some basic math....

                      10 QB's get drafted each year. Typically 3-4 QBs are drafted in the first round each year. Over the course of 10 years, that is 100 QB's that get drafted and around 40 QBs drafted in the first round.

                      Now... If you are still with me... there are around 12 franchise QB's capable of winning a super bowl in the NFL at any given time. Typically, around 6 of the 12 have been in the league well over 10 years. Additionally, approximately half of the 12 franchise QB's aren't even drafted in the first round. Some don't even become a franchise QB until with their second team (Brees and others).

                      Let me simplify this for you. On average, every 10 years, around around 5 - 6 QB's drafted in the first round become legit franchise QB's capable of leading a team to multiple super bowls (or even 1 super bowl). The other 5 - 6 franchise QBs are drafted in rounds 2 - 7 (Wilson, Brady, Brees etc) or not even drafted by the team (Brees etc).

                      So drafting a QB in the first round - you have about a 5 out of 40 chance to land a legit one. Overall you have a 10 out of 1000 chance of landing a legit one.

                      Now, we have a team with glaring holes everywhere, especially in the spot most crucial to a QB's success - offensive line.

                      The worst thing we can do right now is draft a QB early and miss. Unless we are 10000000% sure we found a special QB, WE SHOULD NOT WASTE THIS PICK ON A QB! Keep in mind, you have about a 5 out of 40 chance. Whopping 12% chance of hitting a winner!!!!!

                      I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend by our fans. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW!!!!! Even if Eli is done, no good QB is going to make a difference until the other holes are fixed. Maybe in 2 - 3 years it could be the piece we need and here is the kicker - Our chances of finding a franchise QB then (either in draft of FA) is just as good as it is now. News flash - if we don't solve the other issues, we will have more early first round picks the next few years.

                      I don't love any of the QB's in this draft (I could be wrong) but I don't see how anyone thinks this group of QB's includes a can't miss prospect. Why are we insisting we roll the dice when we have other significant holes to fill?

                      I DONT GET IT! Help me understand......
                      Brady was a sixth round pick

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Also Barkley. I really think if we stay at 2. We’re takimg saquan Barkley

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
                          I keep reading the following on these boards "as long as we draft a qb this year" and "need to draft a qb" and "we would be foolish not to draft a QB" etc etc etc.

                          Where is this coming from? Let's do some basic math....

                          10 QB's get drafted each year. Typically 3-4 QBs are drafted in the first round each year. Over the course of 10 years, that is 100 QB's that get drafted and around 40 QBs drafted in the first round.

                          Now... If you are still with me... there are around 12 franchise QB's capable of winning a super bowl in the NFL at any given time. Typically, around 6 of the 12 have been in the league well over 10 years. Additionally, approximately half of the 12 franchise QB's aren't even drafted in the first round. Some don't even become a franchise QB until with their second team (Brees and others).

                          Let me simplify this for you. On average, every 10 years, around around 5 - 6 QB's drafted in the first round become legit franchise QB's capable of leading a team to multiple super bowls (or even 1 super bowl). The other 5 - 6 franchise QBs are drafted in rounds 2 - 7 (Wilson, Brady, Brees etc) or not even drafted by the team (Brees etc).

                          So drafting a QB in the first round - you have about a 5 out of 40 chance to land a legit one. Overall you have a 10 out of 1000 chance of landing a legit one.

                          Now, we have a team with glaring holes everywhere, especially in the spot most crucial to a QB's success - offensive line.

                          The worst thing we can do right now is draft a QB early and miss. Unless we are 10000000% sure we found a special QB, WE SHOULD NOT WASTE THIS PICK ON A QB! Keep in mind, you have about a 5 out of 40 chance. Whopping 12% chance of hitting a winner!!!!!

                          I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend by our fans. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW!!!!! Even if Eli is done, no good QB is going to make a difference until the other holes are fixed. Maybe in 2 - 3 years it could be the piece we need and here is the kicker - Our chances of finding a franchise QB then (either in draft of FA) is just as good as it is now. News flash - if we don't solve the other issues, we will have more early first round picks the next few years.

                          I don't love any of the QB's in this draft (I could be wrong) but I don't see how anyone thinks this group of QB's includes a can't miss prospect. Why are we insisting we roll the dice when we have other significant holes to fill?

                          I DONT GET IT! Help me understand......
                          well, we desperately need a QB...we can either draft, sign a FA or get one via trade..

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by river555 View Post

                            well, we desperately need a QB...we can either draft, sign a FA or get one via trade..

                            See...when you say we "desperately need a QB", it comes across like just taking any QB will make us better, which is what I assume was the OP's point.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
                              I keep reading the following on these boards "as long as we draft a qb this year" and "need to draft a qb" and "we would be foolish not to draft a QB" etc etc etc.

                              Where is this coming from? Let's do some basic math....

                              10 QB's get drafted each year. Typically 3-4 QBs are drafted in the first round each year. Over the course of 10 years, that is 100 QB's that get drafted and around 40 QBs drafted in the first round.

                              Now... If you are still with me... there are around 12 franchise QB's capable of winning a super bowl in the NFL at any given time. Typically, around 6 of the 12 have been in the league well over 10 years. Additionally, approximately half of the 12 franchise QB's aren't even drafted in the first round. Some don't even become a franchise QB until with their second team (Brees and others).

                              Let me simplify this for you. On average, every 10 years, around around 5 - 6 QB's drafted in the first round become legit franchise QB's capable of leading a team to multiple super bowls (or even 1 super bowl). The other 5 - 6 franchise QBs are drafted in rounds 2 - 7 (Wilson, Brady, Brees etc) or not even drafted by the team (Brees etc).

                              So drafting a QB in the first round - you have about a 5 out of 40 chance to land a legit one. Overall you have a 10 out of 1000 chance of landing a legit one.

                              Now, we have a team with glaring holes everywhere, especially in the spot most crucial to a QB's success - offensive line.

                              The worst thing we can do right now is draft a QB early and miss. Unless we are 10000000% sure we found a special QB, WE SHOULD NOT WASTE THIS PICK ON A QB! Keep in mind, you have about a 5 out of 40 chance. Whopping 12% chance of hitting a winner!!!!!

                              I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend by our fans. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW!!!!! Even if Eli is done, no good QB is going to make a difference until the other holes are fixed. Maybe in 2 - 3 years it could be the piece we need and here is the kicker - Our chances of finding a franchise QB then (either in draft of FA) is just as good as it is now. News flash - if we don't solve the other issues, we will have more early first round picks the next few years.

                              I don't love any of the QB's in this draft (I could be wrong) but I don't see how anyone thinks this group of QB's includes a can't miss prospect. Why are we insisting we roll the dice when we have other significant holes to fill?

                              I DONT GET IT! Help me understand......
                              1. QB is the most important position on your team and we have a QB who looks more done than looking like the answer.
                              2.Eli is owed 23 million next year do you think he's worth close to that? I wouldn't pay for half of that but we need him to be a lame duck QB for a year before the next guy can take over. Even with Eli on the team book it were draft top 10 next year.
                              3. It's hard to believe that if Davis Webb was any good he couldn't manage to see snaps on a 3-13 team he got a token activation at the end of the year.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by NoHuddle10 View Post
                                I keep reading the following on these boards "as long as we draft a qb this year" and "need to draft a qb" and "we would be foolish not to draft a QB" etc etc etc.

                                Where is this coming from? Let's do some basic math....

                                10 QB's get drafted each year. Typically 3-4 QBs are drafted in the first round each year. Over the course of 10 years, that is 100 QB's that get drafted and around 40 QBs drafted in the first round.

                                Now... If you are still with me... there are around 12 franchise QB's capable of winning a super bowl in the NFL at any given time. Typically, around 6 of the 12 have been in the league well over 10 years. Additionally, approximately half of the 12 franchise QB's aren't even drafted in the first round. Some don't even become a franchise QB until with their second team (Brees and others).

                                Let me simplify this for you. On average, every 10 years, around around 5 - 6 QB's drafted in the first round become legit franchise QB's capable of leading a team to multiple super bowls (or even 1 super bowl). The other 5 - 6 franchise QBs are drafted in rounds 2 - 7 (Wilson, Brady, Brees etc) or not even drafted by the team (Brees etc).

                                So drafting a QB in the first round - you have about a 5 out of 40 chance to land a legit one. Overall you have a 10 out of 1000 chance of landing a legit one.

                                Now, we have a team with glaring holes everywhere, especially in the spot most crucial to a QB's success - offensive line.

                                The worst thing we can do right now is draft a QB early and miss. Unless we are 10000000% sure we found a special QB, WE SHOULD NOT WASTE THIS PICK ON A QB! Keep in mind, you have about a 5 out of 40 chance. Whopping 12% chance of hitting a winner!!!!!

                                I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend by our fans. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW!!!!! Even if Eli is done, no good QB is going to make a difference until the other holes are fixed. Maybe in 2 - 3 years it could be the piece we need and here is the kicker - Our chances of finding a franchise QB then (either in draft of FA) is just as good as it is now. News flash - if we don't solve the other issues, we will have more early first round picks the next few years.

                                I don't love any of the QB's in this draft (I could be wrong) but I don't see how anyone thinks this group of QB's includes a can't miss prospect. Why are we insisting we roll the dice when we have other significant holes to fill?

                                I DONT GET IT! Help me understand......
                                You ignore the fact that many teams drafting high pick QB's are horrible teams or orgs, and that is how they got that pic.
                                Many first round pics end up on these "bad for a decade or longer" teams, that proves nothing about the QB. If
                                you put the odds of getting a franchise QB out of any round, equal, why not get one from round one, along with the one you have out of round one. Double the odds that one pans out, and that position is the most important by far, for the next decade or more. A first round RB is going to do nothing next year, or the next 6 years, without that QB.

                                Comment

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