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  • #31
    Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
    I assume by high draft pick you mean 1st and 2nd rounders. We have just as many high draft pick rookie contracts going to the OL as we do the skill positions on O. I don't think that will be a factor at all. If it was then D is where this pick would go.

    TE Engram
    WR Shepard
    WR ODB

    OL Flowers
    OL Richburg
    OL Pugh

    DL Tomlinson

    DB Apple
    DB Collins


    The thing you aren't taking into consideration is the fact that both Richburg and Pugh are free agents unless signed within the next couple of months and who knows what happens with Flowers.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by compaqnigg View Post
      The thing you aren't taking into consideration is the fact that both Richburg and Pugh are free agents unless signed within the next couple of months and who knows what happens with Flowers.
      Fair enough. I still consider a RB be in a different group than WRs. We were robbed of our 1st round RB a few years back. I would not hate getting Barkley this time around. I also fully agree that there are many options for us. That is why this draft will be exciting. Many different directions we can go and so many solid choices.


      Originally posted by TEM View Post
      His numbers a RB are not even close.
      I have to disagree with this. You can't simply judge a RB on his numbers. That is insane to me. Andre Williams ran for 2000+ yards and 18 TDs as a senior.

      LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
      "Next man up"

      "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
        Fair enough. I still consider a RB be in a different group than WRs. We were robbed of our 1st round RB a few years back. I would not hate getting Barkley this time around. I also fully agree that there are many options for us. That is why this draft will be exciting. Many different directions we can go and so many solid choices.



        I have to disagree with this. You can't simply judge a RB on his numbers. That is insane to me. Andre Williams ran for 2000+ yards and 18 TDs as a senior.
        What else does a RB have to judge him by? Every other top 10 RB in the past 3 years ( what I used a benchmark) were substantially better. None had half the season under 100 yds and padded numbers because of 3 games. You take those 3 games away (211 172,158) 541 total yards . He is left with 10 games 4.8 per carry, 73 per game , total of 730 yards for the season . That is not a #2 over all pick.
        "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by TEM View Post

          What else does a RB have to judge him by? Every other top 10 RB in the past 3 years ( what I used a benchmark) were substantially better. None had half the season under 100 yds and padded numbers because of 3 games. You take those 3 games away (211 172,158) 541 total yards . He is left with 10 games 4.8 per carry, 73 per game , total of 730 yards for the season . That is not a #2 over all pick.
          Did all those running backs have the same oline?
          There is a reason the people who evaluate college talent currently have him graded just shy of what they had AP graded. Im sure they took everything into consideration not just his best games.
          Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

          “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by TEM View Post

            Just stop. Not any way compares to top backs in the past 3 drafts. Elliot 3rd pick Gurley 10th pick McCaffrey10 pick His numbers a RB are not even close. As a # 2 pick he is a joke. If he was as good a some of you portray. Penn state would have fed him the ball more then he did. . He had bad games and Penn State went away from his running . He is a screen pass catcher nothing more. Elliot 6.7 a carry Gurley 6.4 a carry McCaffrey 6.2 a carry. All further down then a #2 Your guy 5.9 a carry.


            He is inconstant and his 2.5 a carry for 35 against Rutgers proves it. Did Rutgers have a great Defense (Ranked 72nd)
            The QB ran for more yards against Rutgers
            .Georgia State, do they have a great Defense? 47 yards 4.7 against an (unranked Defense). If he ws so prolific why only 10 carries against GS? Why not feed him the ball against Defenses he should have run over? There is a reason and it screams I am not a # 2 pick

            That great Defense argument has holes in it. He played against some bad ones with similar results.

            IMO: He is too inconsistent as a RB for a #2 overall . The Giants can grab a screen pass catcher in the later rounds .
            Elliot was the 4th overall pick, and McCaffrey was the 8th. If you aren't going to bother getting the simple facts right, the whole rest of your argument shows me it's coming from someone who claims they care about numbers and facts without proving that they actually do so.

            For instance, you bring up Georgia State. If you actually did some analysis, actually took some time to look into the game, you would have seen that Barkley wasn't playing before the first half was even over. They were up 35-0, there is no reason to keep your best player in for longer against a bad team...

            So it's really hard to take your opinion seriously. It is ridiculous enough that you are so reliant on stat analysis while anyone who actually watches Barkley can verify he is an incredible athlete. There are so many dynamics that yield the numbers, there's a reason why everyone else is saying Barkley is the best football player in the draft. Maybe not worth the 2nd overall pick for the Giants due to positional value, but that wasn't my argument here.

            My whole argument, which you obviously didn't have the decency to sit down and actually look at, is that there is more to numbers than a simple game log overview you got from ESPN.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by NetSymptom View Post

              Elliot was the 4th overall pick, and McCaffrey was the 8th. If you aren't going to bother getting the simple facts right, the whole rest of your argument shows me it's coming from someone who claims they care about numbers and facts without proving that they actually do so.

              For instance, you bring up Georgia State. If you actually did some analysis, actually took some time to look into the game, you would have seen that Barkley wasn't playing before the first half was even over. They were up 35-0, there is no reason to keep your best player in for longer against a bad team...

              So it's really hard to take your opinion seriously. It is ridiculous enough that you are so reliant on stat analysis while anyone who actually watches Barkley can verify he is an incredible athlete. There are so many dynamics that yield the numbers, there's a reason why everyone else is saying Barkley is the best football player in the draft. Maybe not worth the 2nd overall pick for the Giants due to positional value, but that wasn't my argument here.

              My whole argument, which you obviously didn't have the decency to sit down and actually look at, is that there is more to numbers than a simple game log overview you got from ESPN.
              So all the numbers i showed are false. Pick him @ #2
              "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by andthewinneris View Post

                Did all those running backs have the same oline?
                There is a reason the people who evaluate college talent currently have him graded just shy of what they had AP graded. Im sure they took everything into consideration not just his best games.
                Why 7.2 a carry against Michigan (#3 ranked Defense) 7.5 against Iowa (#36th ranked Defense) 2.5 a carry against Rutgers ( #72 ranked Defense) 4.7 a carry against Georgia State ( #61 ranked Defense ) ?

                If the line was bad it should have been bad against Michigan and Iowa.

                He is too inconstant to be a #2.
                "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by TEM View Post

                  So all the numbers i showed are false. Pick him @ #2
                  Your numbers may be true but they also may be misleading.
                  Engage brain before speaking.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TEM View Post

                    Why 7.2 a carry against Michigan (#3 ranked Defense) 7.5 against Iowa (#36th ranked Defense) 2.5 a carry against Rutgers ( #72 ranked Defense) 4.7 a carry against Georgia State ( #61 ranked Defense ) ?

                    If the line was bad it should have been bad against Michigan and Iowa.

                    He is too inconstant to be a #2.
                    What were the number of carries in each game.
                    Engage brain before speaking.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by speedman View Post

                      Your numbers may be true but they also may be misleading.
                      I will ask again what else does a RB have to go by? If you can't put up yds running the ball . What is it then?
                      "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TEM View Post

                        What else does a RB have to judge him by? Every other top 10 RB in the past 3 years ( what I used a benchmark) were substantially better. None had half the season under 100 yds and padded numbers because of 3 games. You take those 3 games away (211 172,158) 541 total yards . He is left with 10 games 4.8 per carry, 73 per game , total of 730 yards for the season . That is not a #2 over all pick.
                        Are you really asking what else you can judge a player on other than stats? TEM I am pretty surprised that you are taking that stance.

                        Donnel Pumphrey was the NCAA rushing leader in 2016. He any good?

                        Derrick Henry
                        Melvin Gordon
                        Andre Williams
                        KaDeem Carey
                        Montee Ball
                        LaMichael James
                        Toby Gerhart
                        Donald Brown
                        Kevin Smith

                        In 2000 LaDanlian Tomlinson was the rushing leader. He was a HOF player. In 1999 Ron Dayne was the rushing leader. He was a terrible pro.
                        The last ten years of NCAA rushing leaders. How many were the best in their draft class? How many were even good pros? You don't judge any player simply on his stats. That is absurd man. If you don't like Barkley that is fine, but don't simply say because his stats aren't as good as other people.
                        LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                        "Next man up"

                        "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          If you answer the other question I asked, regarding carries in the games, I may be able to better answer your question. Take into account that I don’t watch college football so l am not advocating for Barkley.
                          This was intended for TEM.
                          Engage brain before speaking.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                            Are you really asking what else you can judge a player on other than stats? TEM I am pretty surprised that you are taking that stance.

                            Donnel Pumphrey was the NCAA rushing leader in 2016. He any good?

                            Derrick Henry
                            Melvin Gordon
                            Andre Williams
                            KaDeem Carey
                            Montee Ball
                            LaMichael James
                            Toby Gerhart
                            Donald Brown
                            Kevin Smith

                            In 2000 LaDanlian Tomlinson was the rushing leader. He was a HOF player. In 1999 Ron Dayne was the rushing leader. He was a terrible pro.
                            The last ten years of NCAA rushing leaders. How many were the best in their draft class? How many were even good pros? You don't judge any player simply on his stats. That is absurd man. If you don't like Barkley that is fine, but don't simply say because his stats aren't as good as other people.

                            I agree you can have busts even if it looks good on paper. That is the unknown with the draft.

                            I think you are missing my point. Here is my logic . I agree big numbers in the NCAA do not necessarily equate to an NFL glory. Not putting up numbers in the NCAA , you would think would transfer to the NFL ,a much more difficult environment to have success in. For a #2 overall a player should not be so inconstant.
                            "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TEM View Post

                              Why 7.2 a carry against Michigan (#3 ranked Defense) 7.5 against Iowa (#36th ranked Defense) 2.5 a carry against Rutgers ( #72 ranked Defense) 4.7 a carry against Georgia State ( #61 ranked Defense ) ?

                              If the line was bad it should have been bad against Michigan and Iowa.

                              He is too inconstant to be a #2.
                              Actually if you tally up his 3 years of stats against Rutgers 8.5 yds a carry. 322yds of rushing / 40 carries over 3 years . Pretty sick. Even though Rutgers held him to 35 yards in 2017 he still scored 2 Tds on only 14 carries. He scored every 7 carries. I didn't even add up his receiving totals against rutgers.

                              Against Georgia State you are leaving out the part where he caught 4 passes for 142 yds but since you are argung about a "running back " we can leave that out.

                              If you want inconsistency Josh Adams out of ND is your guy. Look at his stats against good teams like Stanford and Michigan State over 3 years.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TEM View Post

                                Why 7.2 a carry against Michigan (#3 ranked Defense) 7.5 against Iowa (#36th ranked Defense) 2.5 a carry against Rutgers ( #72 ranked Defense) 4.7 a carry against Georgia State ( #61 ranked Defense ) ?

                                If the line was bad it should have been bad against Michigan and Iowa.

                                He is too inconstant to be a #2.
                                7.2 against the number 3 ranked defense. Ok.
                                In addition to not having a good line infront of him they're really not any other weapons on that offense. Every DC went into the week thinking i have one guy to stop. Some of them where able to pull it off against a very one dimensional team.
                                Doesn't take anything away from his abilities. Speed hands vision power elusivness blocking are what you look for in a RB. Looking at stats gets you andre brown.
                                Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

                                “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

                                Comment

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