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PART 2: Why It Doesn't Make Sense To Draft Barkley With The 2nd Pick of the Draft.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by shocknaweny View Post
    If there was reasons not to draft Saquon Barkley and I'm not saying there is but they might be listed like this

    4) Larry Johnson- RB Penn State - though he did have 2 monster seasons before he fizzled out
    3) Curtis Enis- RB Penn State - total bust of a top 5 pick with the Bears back in '98 I believe didn't even last 3 NFL seasons
    2) Blair Thomas -RB Penn State - BUST and drafted before Emmitt Smith
    1) Ki-Jana Carter-RB Penn State - are you seeing a theme ??
    Interesting.... I'm not worried though I know we aren't taking him at #2, maybe if we trade down we could possibly end up with him, but I doubt it.

    Comment


    • #47
      I think this draft is particularly deep at RB, and other very good backs will be available in the 2nd and beyond. Just look at the backs picked last year, how they performed, and where they were picked.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Gee718 View Post

        Yeah...Logic..

        haha. I don't want to keep rehashing, but drafting Barkley is pulling the car before the horse. Our horse is the OL. You can have a great run game if you fix the line and get a good RB... We don't need an Elite level RB
        What if we got Barkley in the 1st, OT Tyrell Crosby in the 2nd, C/G Billy Price in the 3rd???
        or would 1st OG Nelson, 2nd OT Orlando Brown, 3rd RB Nick Chubb/Royce Freeman be better???
        Come check the G-Fambulance and The Scarf Soldiers every home game in Lot L6, and like us on facebook and instagam 'NYG Scarf Soldiers'

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by nycowns View Post

          AP, Lynch, Charles and Foster are barely in the league and Bell has had 3. (being generous id call a 1000 yard season "great")

          I think we need a QB or trade back.
          You said I can't name any. I didn't even try and named 5. Bell has had 4 great seasons, his rookie year he had 1200 yards from scrimmage and 9 TDs. I think we both agree he will have at least one more great year.

          Go look up the average length in the league for 1st round RBs, it is not at all bad for them. If they think one of these QBs is the man we should and will take him. I doubt that guy exists in this draft. I think Barkley is more likely. Reading more about Shurmur and Gettleman and their talks though I think Nelson is a real possibility at #2.
          LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
          "Next man up"

          "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kase-1 View Post

            What if we got Barkley in the 1st, OT Tyrell Crosby in the 2nd, C/G Billy Price in the 3rd???
            or would 1st OG Nelson, 2nd OT Orlando Brown, 3rd RB Nick Chubb/Royce Freeman be better???
            Man nice. I think Price will go 2nd and Crosby 3rd though, but who knows. I think Nelson, Guice, Crosby (or Price) would be a really nice draft also. There are a lot of options for RBs and OL in this draft. Hope we stock up early.
            LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
            "Next man up"

            "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
              You said I can't name any. I didn't even try and named 5. Bell has had 4 great seasons, his rookie year he had 1200 yards from scrimmage and 9 TDs. I think we both agree he will have at least one more great year.

              Go look up the average length in the league for 1st round RBs, it is not at all bad for them. If they think one of these QBs is the man we should and will take him. I doubt that guy exists in this draft. I think Barkley is more likely. Reading more about Shurmur and Gettleman and their talks though I think Nelson is a real possibility at #2.
              A guard @ 2 , we need tackles. Guards are like running backs they can be later round picks.


              12 guards taken in the top 5 since the NFL draft began in 1936.

              Leonard Davis, 2001, Pick 2 (Moved to LT)
              Jonathan Ogden, 1996, Pick 4 ( Moved to LT)
              Bill Fralic, 1985, Pick 2
              Chris Hinton, 1983, Pick 4
              Ken Huff, 1975, Pick 3
              John Hicks, 1974, Pick 3
              John Hannah, 1973, Pick 4
              Tom Mack, 1966, Pick 2
              Randy Beisler, 1966, Pick 4
              John Niland, 1966, Pick 5
              Fritz Barzilauskas, 1947, Pick 3
              Rudy Mucha, 1941, Pick 4

              This does not bode well for taking a guard with a top 5 pick unless he can play LT.
              Last edited by TEM; 01-30-2018, 08:51 PM.
              There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TEM View Post

                A guard @ 2 , we need tackles. Guards are like running backs they can be later round picks.


                12 guards taken in the top 5 since the NFL draft began in 1936.

                Leonard Davis, 2001, Pick 2 (Moved to LT)
                Jonathan Ogden, 1996, Pick 4 ( Moved to LT)
                Bill Fralic, 1985, Pick 2
                Chris Hinton, 1983, Pick 4
                Ken Huff, 1975, Pick 3
                John Hicks, 1974, Pick 3
                John Hannah, 1973, Pick 4
                Tom Mack, 1966, Pick 2
                Randy Beisler, 1966, Pick 4
                John Niland, 1966, Pick 5
                Fritz Barzilauskas, 1947, Pick 3
                Rudy Mucha, 1941, Pick 4

                This does not bode well for taking a guard with a top 5 pick unless he can play LT.
                I'm not saying we will take him, but I would be ok with it. History does not mean we won't draft one this year, it just means we are not historically likely. It is a flawed argument anyway. How many teams that have taken QBs in the first would have been better taking a G? How about in 2014 the Rams took an OT, Greg Robinson, I think we both agree they would have been better off getting Zack Martin.

                My point is I personally don't care about position like many people seem to be obsessed with, I just want them to get a stud All Pro / ProBowl level player.

                Interesting note. John Hannah you have up there. He is in the Hall of Fame and might be the best Guard ever in the NFL. The guy taken #1 that year, John Matuszak, never played a snap for the team that drafted him. The person is way more important than the position.
                LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                "Next man up"

                "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                Comment


                • #53
                  The Alex Smith deal is why it does not make sense to draft Barkley. The Giants need to take advantage of this opportunity to land a franchise QB in the draft, because as you can see it is not cheap to pay a vet.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Kase-1 View Post

                    What if we got Barkley in the 1st, OT Tyrell Crosby in the 2nd, C/G Billy Price in the 3rd???
                    or would 1st OG Nelson, 2nd OT Orlando Brown, 3rd RB Nick Chubb/Royce Freeman be better???
                    OK, so you draft a RB and keep going with Eli @ $22mill per season. Then you make ODB the highest paid player, but you still gotta eat Eli's contract and figure out how to unload JPP's contract.

                    You have a good season, but now Eli is 39 and you don't know what Davis Webb has...You pay Eli that last $23mill, and you let Landon Collins walk in Free agency because you can't afford him.

                    Then, by 2020, no more Eli and you find out Davis Webb is trash, or worse yet, he leaves as a FA and becomes a star somewhere else. Now your good team has late round picks and you have to rely on 69 year old Gettleman to find you a QB, because you can't afford to sign any free agents.

                    Pray the salary cap is a billion by then...



                    My option. Move Eli after next season as a post June 1st cut, Draft a QB this year in the first. Our new QB will make 1/3 of ELI's contract for the next 4 years. We can then afford to pay OBJ and Collins.

                    Take a RB in the mid rounds after building up the line

                    Win
                    Long Live the King

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Fournette,Gurley,Elliot have all helped turn around their respective clubs. I think barkley is better than all of them and would love to see him in blue. Drafting a qb with that pick just tells me not to expect much from the giants next year unless we get late round studs. Trading down.....im okay with that.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post

                        I'm not saying we will take him, but I would be ok with it. History does not mean we won't draft one this year, it just means we are not historically likely. It is a flawed argument anyway. How many teams that have taken QBs in the first would have been better taking a G? How about in 2014 the Rams took an OT, Greg Robinson, I think we both agree they would have been better off getting Zack Martin.

                        My point is I personally don't care about position like many people seem to be obsessed with, I just want them to get a stud All Pro / ProBowl level player.

                        Interesting note. John Hannah you have up there. He is in the Hall of Fame and might be the best Guard ever in the NFL. The guy taken #1 that year, John Matuszak, never played a snap for the team that drafted him. The person is way more important than the position.
                        I think a mediocre tackle can be made into a guard. ( Fluker)
                        There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TEM View Post

                          I think a mediocre tackle can be made into a guard. ( Fluker)
                          How many Pro Bowls did he make as a Guard? We have the second pick in the draft, I don't want to get a mediocre player. Do you?
                          LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                          "Next man up"

                          "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                            Sorry man, still not a good reason not to take a RB in the first round. If Barkley is the best guy for this team they should and will take him. If they trade back I am fine with that. If they take Nelson or Chubb or some other prospect they think is the best I am fine with that. It is ridiculous to not take the guy you think is the best because his position isn't right.
                            Unless that position is a kicker

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by giants8493 View Post

                              Unless that position is a kicker
                              Even a kicker. Now keep in mind that in order for a kicker to be considered the best in the draft he would have to be regularly kicking 67 yard field goals with 98% accuracy and dropping kick offs on the 5 yard line with a 12 yard average return. Find a kicker that can do those things and I'd take him #1 overall. A touchback brings the ball to the 25, gain just 25 yards and we would get points.
                              LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                              "Next man up"

                              "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by TEM View Post

                                A guard @ 2 , we need tackles. Guards are like running backs they can be later round picks.


                                12 guards taken in the top 5 since the NFL draft began in 1936.

                                Leonard Davis, 2001, Pick 2 (Moved to LT)
                                Jonathan Ogden, 1996, Pick 4 ( Moved to LT)
                                Bill Fralic, 1985, Pick 2
                                Chris Hinton, 1983, Pick 4
                                Ken Huff, 1975, Pick 3
                                John Hicks, 1974, Pick 3
                                John Hannah, 1973, Pick 4
                                Tom Mack, 1966, Pick 2
                                Randy Beisler, 1966, Pick 4
                                John Niland, 1966, Pick 5
                                Fritz Barzilauskas, 1947, Pick 3
                                Rudy Mucha, 1941, Pick 4

                                This does not bode well for taking a guard with a top 5 pick unless he can play LT.
                                Brandon Scherff was taken 5th overall a couple years ago and and was drafted to play guard.

                                Its more about what a lineman is drafted to play than what his college position was.

                                But yes, a guard in the top 10 is probably not a good investment unless all the other top prospects are horrible in comparison.

                                Nelson is one of this drafts best players but he isnít on another level than Barkley or the QBs. If he could play tackle then yes but I think he is a guard that projects as a guard.

                                Comment

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