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  • #76
    Originally posted by andthewinneris View Post
    It only makes perfect sense if you don't understand that a football team has 22 starters and 1 qb.
    I would love to get saquon depending on what they accomplish in FA. But if they don't get enough done i would absolutely respect trading back to address multiple holes.

    Now or never is literally the only nonsense approach being suggested.
    I guess I'm trying to figure out how you would address the QB position long term. Is it to wait and hope?
    Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

    Comment


    • #77
      If Rosen, Darnols, Allen, or Mayfield etc are not high on the Giants list of potential franchise QBs then no you dont take one just because you have the #2 pick. That is just bad drafting. You have to have a plan, a philosophy, and contingencies. You stick to them.
      I also believe that this up coming draft for the Giants Eli starting next season plays a ZERO factor for them choosing a QB or not.
      Other variables will matter of course but Eli is not one of them.
      "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
      You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

        I guess I'm trying to figure out how you would address the QB position long term. Is it to wait and hope?
        At what point did i ever say just wait and hope? There are 22 starters on a football field acting like each of them dont have a vital role is exactly why we have a weird patchwork team right now. If you without question have your wagon hitched to eli for 1 probably 2 seasons the least you could do is make sure your wagon has wheels seats anything else it needs.
        Not sure if you missed the post about all the B C and D ranked qbs that made it. But they all made it because they had solid teams around them. You don't need Payton in his prime to win a Superbowl.
        Aged neck injury Peyton is enough if the other pieces are in place.
        Again my plan for the qb position is
        Step 1 Acqire the players and coaches needed to field a successful team while we still have eli and his knowledge of the game at our disposal.
        Step 2 When inevitably the giants and eli part ways, whether that be via free agency or trade or retirement aquire a qb that will be able to put this now completed roster to good use.
        Sidenote: with a complete roster that qb could be a FA vet it could be a top 5 rookie it could be a top 32 rookie it could be a 4th rounder but no matter what he will have an oline to block for him he will have the luxury of a running game he will have veteran WR and he will have a defense to help him out.
        Last edited by andthewinneris; 02-03-2018, 12:50 PM.
        Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

        “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by GameTime View Post
          If Rosen, Darnols, Allen, or Mayfield etc are not high on the Giants list of potential franchise QBs then no you dont take one just because you have the #2 pick. That is just bad drafting. You have to have a plan, a philosophy, and contingencies. You stick to them.
          I also believe that this up coming draft for the Giants Eli starting next season plays a ZERO factor for them choosing a QB or not.
          Other variables will matter of course but Eli is not one of them.
          I agree with most of that i just think because of how things are set up for Eli he does play a role in how they will attack the draft. Not saying that he is the main factor because if Cleveland goes with something other than qb at one i could then see us getting a qb especially if Cleveland takes who we really wanted.
          Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

          “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

          Comment


          • #80
            I like Will Grier. He’s got moxy. Good arm. Good mobility. Very Derek Carr like.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by andthewinneris View Post

              At what point did i ever say just wait and hope? There are 22 starters on a football field acting like each of them dont have a vital role is exactly why we have a weird patchwork team right now. If you without question have your wagon hitched to eli for 1 probably 2 seasons the least you could do is make sure your wagon has wheels seats anything else it needs.
              Not sure if you missed the post about all the B C and D ranked qbs that made it. But they all made it because they had solid teams around them. You don't need Payton in his prime to win a Superbowl.
              Aged neck injury Peyton is enough if the other pieces are in place.
              Again my plan for the qb position is
              Step 1 Acqire the players and coaches needed to field a successful team while we still have eli and he knowledge of the game at our disposal.
              Step 2 When inevitably the giants and eli part ways, whether that be via free agency or trade or retirement aquire a qb that will be able to put this now completed roster to good use.
              Sidenote: with a complete roster that qb could be a FA vet it could be a top 5 rookie it could be a top 32 rookie it could be a 4th rounder but no matter what he will have an oline to block for him he will have the luxury of a running game he will have veteran WR and he will have a defense to help him out.
              "Acquire a QB"
              How?

              Your position dismisses one very important fact...That the QB position is the most important position in a ll of team sports.
              Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

              Comment


              • #82
                this is just my humble opinion but it seems to me that us drafting a QB in round 1 is a no brainer since that is where you usually find your next franchise QB and the one we have is getting toward the end of his career, what am I missing?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                  "Acquire a QB"
                  How?

                  Your position dismisses one very important fact...That the QB position is the most important position in a ll of team sports.
                  Again... blake bortles, tyrod taylor, alex smith, case keenum, nick foles, all had a shot to win it all this year and one of them still has a shot.

                  mark reipyn, joe flacco, jim plunket, brad johnson, doug williams, trent dilfer, post neck injury payton manning, old kurt warner, terry bradshaw ALL HAVE RINGS

                  idk what the confusion on how you acqire a player is about 3 options just like always draft free agency, trade...
                  Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

                  “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by JesseJames View Post
                    this is just my humble opinion but it seems to me that us drafting a QB in round 1 is a no brainer since that is where you usually find your next franchise QB and the one we have is getting toward the end of his career, what am I missing?
                    The point
                    Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN

                    “I wrote after the combine that Engram was entering the first-round discussion, and I've moved him above David Njoku as my second-ranked tight end. … He put up the best 40 time (4.42) among tight ends and the fourth-best vertical (36 inches) at the combine. At 6-3, 234, Engram had 65 catches for 925 yards and eight touchdowns in 2016.”

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                      No but it's our best chance. We have a 3-13 team, an aging QB and the #2 pick. That won;t happen again unless we tank next year as well.

                      I'm just not seeing the upside to wait if they feel there is a guy in this draft they think can be the heir apparent.
                      Not sure how drafting in the middle of the pack next season offers a better chance at a top QB prospect.

                      Could you shed some light on these 3 statements. Because to me they are a myriad of contradiction.

                      We have a 3-13 team, an aging QB and the #2 pick. That won;t happen again unless we tank next year as well.

                      Most sensible individuals on the board will agree with we have an ageing qb and a #2 pick. I think most would agree with the notion of taking a QB for the future at some point.
                      Just because you have a#2 pick is not a reason to take a QB . It should be incidental that it may not happen again for a period of time. To draft based on what pick you have dictates what position you draft , that is what moronic GMs do.

                      You can say what you want about wasting an opportunity . It is a false statement. Teams have moved up in the past and will move up in the future to get a QB. If The giants feel they do not want a QB in this draft. They can move up next yeas or if they choose the following.
                      I'm just not seeing the upside to wait if they feel there is a guy in this draft they think can be the heir apparent.

                      If The Qb they want is there . Why wouldn't they pick him?


                      Not sure how drafting in the middle of the pack next season offers a better chance at a top QB prospect.

                      What is the point of this statement?

                      Is it I needed to add this to bolster a weak point. Because you are making a bad assumption. Is this it? The Giants are stuck with the pick they are allotted to them by the NFL in next years draft.

                      Your entire point to me seems like " take a QB because we have the #2 pick" Only idiot GMs use that mind set.
                      Last edited by TEM; 02-03-2018, 11:35 AM.
                      There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JesseJames View Post
                        this is just my humble opinion but it seems to me that us drafting a QB in round 1 is a no brainer since that is where you usually find your next franchise QB and the one we have is getting toward the end of his career, what am I missing?
                        You don't take a QB because you have to or have a high pick to bolster your chance. You take a QB because he is the right fit.

                        That is the only reason.
                        There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by JesseJames View Post
                          this is just my humble opinion but it seems to me that us drafting a QB in round 1 is a no brainer since that is where you usually find your next franchise QB and the one we have is getting toward the end of his career, what am I missing?
                          Nothing. If they like a QB and think he is a franchise QB. they 100% absolutely should take him. This class is considered one of the best QB draft classes in 10-15 years.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by TEM View Post


                            Could you shed some light on these 3 statements. Because to me they are a myriad of contradiction.

                            We have a 3-13 team, an aging QB and the #2 pick. That won;t happen again unless we tank next year as well.

                            Most sensible individuals on the board will agree with we have an ageing qb and a #2 pick. I think most would agree with the notion of taking a QB for the future at some point.
                            Just because you have a#2 pick is not a reason to take a QB . It should be incidental that it may not happen again for a period of time. To draft based on what pick you have dictates what position you draft , that is what moronic GMs do.

                            You can say what you want about wasting an opportunity . It is a false statement. Teams have moved up in the past and will move up in the future to get a QB. If The giants feel they do not want a QB in this draft. They can move up next yeas or if they choose the following.
                            I'm just not seeing the upside to wait if they feel there is a guy in this draft they think can be the heir apparent.

                            If The Qb they want is there . Why wouldn't they pick him?


                            Not sure how drafting in the middle of the pack next season offers a better chance at a top QB prospect.

                            What is the point of this statement?

                            Is it I needed to add this to bolster a weak point. Because you are making a bad assumption. Is this it? The Giants are stuck with the pick they are allotted to them by the NFL in next years draft.

                            Your entire point to me seems like " take a QB because we have the #2 pick" Only idiot GMs use that mind set.
                            OK..Here we go. You seem to be suggesting that we should "move up" when we do indeed need a QB. Well at what price? We would lose one or more future first round picks. That's a much higher price than using the current #2 pick on a QB. And it's not as easy as you seem to be suggesting. How many teams have been in QB hell of late. Jets? Houston? Denver? Houston got lucky of course with Watson. Denver is in hell along with the Jets. They both tried to pick their QB's later (Lynch, Hackenburg)

                            I have to leave with my wife. I'll respond later to the rest.
                            Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by andthewinneris View Post

                              At what point did i ever say just wait and hope? There are 22 starters on a football field acting like each of them dont have a vital role is exactly why we have a weird patchwork team right now. If you without question have your wagon hitched to eli for 1 probably 2 seasons the least you could do is make sure your wagon has wheels seats anything else it needs.
                              Not sure if you missed the post about all the B C and D ranked qbs that made it. But they all made it because they had solid teams around them. You don't need Payton in his prime to win a Superbowl.
                              Aged neck injury Peyton is enough if the other pieces are in place.
                              Again my plan for the qb position is
                              Step 1 Acqire the players and coaches needed to field a successful team while we still have eli and he knowledge of the game at our disposal.
                              Step 2 When inevitably the giants and eli part ways, whether that be via free agency or trade or retirement aquire a qb that will be able to put this now completed roster to good use.
                              Sidenote: with a complete roster that qb could be a FA vet it could be a top 5 rookie it could be a top 32 rookie it could be a 4th rounder but no matter what he will have an oline to block for him he will have the luxury of a running game he will have veteran WR and he will have a defense to help him out.
                              Thank you for trying to make your very reasonable point without making personal attacks. Also, unless I missed it somewhere, I believe you have tried to make your point without using sarcasm or implying those who don't agree are idiots - I think this encourages healthy debate so, again, thank you.

                              I agree with you position for the most part but think we should target a QB this year and take one where ever value matches draft position (or at least close). Based on what I've read so far (combine and pro-days may change that), I don't think that is likely at the #2 but I think it is likely somewhere in the top 40. I would like to target someone now to minimize the "learning on the job" Eli's successor will need. Even if it turns out we get good value at #2 for a QB, I think we will probably be a better team next year with that draft pick sitting for a year behind Eli. Like you, I think we still have a very good QB who can take us all the way if the rest of the team (OL, LB and depth) is rebuilt. I think we can rebuild AND get our next QB, though - especially if we trade down.

                              A further consideration, and another reason to start looking now for the next QB, is the high miss rate on QBs: if we take one this year we have that pick and Webb to evaluate.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                                OK..Here we go. You seem to be suggesting that we should "move up" when we do indeed need a QB. Well at what price? We would lose one or more future first round picks. That's a much higher price than using the current #2 pick on a QB. And it's not as easy as you seem to be suggesting. How many teams have been in QB hell of late. Jets? Houston? Denver? Houston got lucky of course with Watson. Denver is in hell along with the Jets. They both tried to pick their QB's later (Lynch, Hackenburg)

                                I have to leave with my wife. I'll respond later to the rest.
                                We gave up Rivers a first and some lower picks to get Eli. So history agrees that the Giants will move when they want "the QB"

                                Now you argument is we should draft based on what other teams circumstances are. How long did it take to fabricate that theory? Avant-garde I must say but misleading in its context.


                                Just by your tone . You are in the take a QB because we have a #2 pick camp . A fools pick . I am in the camp to take a QB if he is the right fit. If he is not. There are subsequent drafts .
                                There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season.

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