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  • Could it look like this in 2 years

    If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

    There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
    Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
    Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

    Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
    Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

    Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

    The big question is QB now. Who?

    If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

    If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
    and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

    Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
    Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

    So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

    We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

    Just find us a Quarterback.

    I actually think we pick a QB at 2

    Just speculating

    28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27

  • #2
    Hopefully the world still exits in two years. I'm worried about the now. Lets just win now and worry about the QB situation 2 years. There is a thing called free agency... you can grab QBs there too. I'm not too worried. The Eagles just won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles! LOL, dude was going to retire from the NFL.

    Comment


    • #3
      So donít draft with the future in mind, just go all in on 2018 because the world might end... Got it...

      This is how bad teams stay bad, they donít plan for the future. They throw bandaids on everything and donít get pieces that will form a core for years

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
        If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

        There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
        Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
        Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

        Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
        Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

        Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

        The big question is QB now. Who?

        If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

        If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
        and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

        Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
        Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

        So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

        We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

        Just find us a Quarterback.

        I actually think we pick a QB at 2

        Just speculating

        28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27
        I don think we trade out of the 2 spot with Buffalo. If we trade that pick I think we still stay in the top 6-7 range because if Dave is not going for QB, he still wants to get one of the top guys like Barkley, Chubb, Nelson or Fitzpatrick.

        I dnt see Orell getting traded at this point, but it would not surprise me if something did happen. I don't think that we would do it with the rams though. Cleveland would be an option, and we could really get creative with a deal like that.

        In two years the roster will be turned over as you said. And it should be.

        Jenkins will be gone, Vernon will be gone, Flowers will be gone, Apple will be gone.

        Its TS why we should draft a QB now, and move the team forward in Pat and Dave's vision.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by compaqnigg View Post
          Hopefully the world still exits in two years. I'm worried about the now. Lets just win now and worry about the QB situation 2 years. There is a thing called free agency... you can grab QBs there too. I'm not too worried. The Eagles just won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles! LOL, dude was going to retire from the NFL.
          I get the camp that wants to win now, and worry about QB later. It makes some sense.

          i am not in the camp. I think when you have the second pick in the draft, when there are five first round QBs, and when your Franchise QB is 38 years old, and has shown he is in decline, you use the second pick on a good young QB. At a minimum, there will be four to choose from.

          Grabbing a QB in FA is very expensive, and is not as successful as drafting a guy and developing them. There are exceptions of course, Peyton Manning going to Denver.

          Anyway, there are two schools of thought, and what matters ultimately will be what Dave and Pat want to do.

          But if we pass on Mayfield, Allen and Darnold, I think a lot of us will be sick to our stomach in two years time.

          Comment


          • #6
            i seem to be the only one in the camp of having my cake and eating it too. What is wrong with getting a 2019 first round pick as part of a trade down scenario, in order to get a QB next year, while still getting some extra picks this year?

            I'm not trading OBJ. Period. The only way he gets traded is if he isn't the same after the injury, which by all reports won't be the case. They NYG aren't trading OBJ. That is the same fake news that happens every year at this time. It is nonsense.

            Trading down in the draft is the only way to acquire more picks that i can realistically see. so your scenario is fine as a trade down scenario since we get a 2019 pick as part of the deal with buffalo. It is fine other than trading OBJ. also nobody is buying into Eli apple LOL.

            2 cents
            Last edited by bigpoppy; 03-30-2018, 11:11 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
              If we trade Beckham
              the core of a 2020 team.
              Omameh on offense
              And this says about all I need to know about this thread. Yep lets trade our best player and make a OG that has never played a snap for us the core of our offense. Sounds like a great plan. Cleveland here we come.
              LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
              "Next man up"

              "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
                If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

                There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
                Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
                Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

                Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
                Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

                Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

                The big question is QB now. Who?

                If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

                If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
                and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

                Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
                Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

                So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

                We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

                Just find us a Quarterback.

                I actually think we pick a QB at 2

                Just speculating

                28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27
                rofl

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Giants have had a number of "no name" players at guard over the years including Richie Seubert, Billy And, Darrell Dess, Roy "Sugar bear" Simmons, Chris Godfrey.
                  It is a position that does not carry a lot of fame with it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
                    If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

                    There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
                    Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
                    Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

                    Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
                    Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

                    Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

                    The big question is QB now. Who?

                    If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

                    If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
                    and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

                    Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
                    Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

                    So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

                    We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

                    Just find us a Quarterback.

                    I actually think we pick a QB at 2

                    Just speculating

                    28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27
                    To the posters who are deriding this post out of hand, I suggest you re-read it and ask yourself if you are being a little too ****-sure of yourself. Furthermore, even if it is as obviously wrong-headed as you think, the overall discourse would be improved if you seek to educate rather than put down.

                    As to the content of the post, if I accept the premise of your post that we will end up with the picks you suggest, I think you are making a fair point. Given the sheer number, we may hit the lottery and get another superstar, or, more likely, replace Beckham with a "very good" player who may not be in the top 3 of WRs but in the top 10 while having a stronger team around him (and most importantly, a stronger running game). For my philosophy of football, start in the trenches and build outward, I'm more comfortable with that from a CAP perspective and a team building perspective. If we take a BPA approach, odds are the BPA at a given pick, given the range of the picks, will also fill a need. The number of picks also allows for greater flexibility regarding ***ency - we can sign Brigewater and see how he and Webb work out for instance and then trade up if need be using the extra picks. Bottom line, this creates flexibility to react to the needs of the moment better and removes having a huge CAP hit at a position I place lower on my list of importance than other positions. If I'm going to have a superstar that I'm paying top dollar to for that position my order is: QB, DE, CB, OL, DT, LB, S, TE, WR, RB.

                    The problem with this approach is that I know what I have in Beckham while the draft, with the best of GMs, is a roll of the dice. While I hope desperately that Gettleman will do a better job than Reese, that is no sure thing even though early impressions suggest he is handling the other aspects of the job better. If Gettleman is better at the draft, we can keep Beckham at a reasonable CAP number for the next three years and still build a strong team around them with just the extra picks of trading down.

                    Your suggestion has merit and is logical but I'd rather keep Beckham for three years either by CAP friendly resigning (unlikely) or playing out rookie contract and then Franchise tagging/negotiate then. CAP will be hit but not as hard as giving him what he says he wants. After this year, if we use the structure of Antonio Brown's contract as a guide, we could manage Beckham's CAP hit to be low until Eli is gone and then renegotiate to get it back in the 13 mil range (or a bit higher since the CAP will be higher then) or trade/cut him. Here is AB's contract: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburg...io-brown-6702/

                    Thanks for your thought provoking post.

                    Edit to add: forgot to address trading Apple - I'd rather try to keep him one more year and see if he can be salvaged. Like with Beckham, I think the extra picks of trade down give us enough flexibility that we can do without an extra 3rd rounder.
                    Last edited by bringsimmsback; 03-30-2018, 10:33 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
                      If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

                      There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
                      Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
                      Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

                      Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
                      Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

                      Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

                      The big question is QB now. Who?

                      If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

                      If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
                      and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

                      Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
                      Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

                      So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

                      We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

                      Just find us a Quarterback.

                      I actually think we pick a QB at 2

                      Just speculating

                      28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27
                      I see your point. This is exactly what the brown have been doing for seasons. This model looks good on paper but has produced nothing. As a good GM you have to have the mindset to build a team to win every year. That has been an effective model for success by teams that win NE, GB, Pittsburgh, The giants all have put trophies in the case with that form of team building mentality .
                      Last edited by TEM; 03-30-2018, 10:49 AM.
                      The Dallas Cowboys have now gone exactly One Third of their pathetic existence without a Super bowl appearance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by coachf14 View Post
                        If we trade Beckham trade Apple for a third round pick, and then trade down with Buffalo will it look like this.

                        There are 9 players on the current roster I believe who would be the core of a 2020 team.
                        Engram, Shepard, Omameh on offense
                        Snacks, Tomlinson,Ogletree, Collins, Vernon, Jenkins

                        Solder will be 31/32 and may still be part of the core
                        Also possibly Goodson and Kareem Martin

                        Let's say we sign 2 free agents after next year who become part of the core, so we are at 11 and possibly as many as 14.

                        The big question is QB now. Who?

                        If we trade Beckham to the Rams for example and get 23 this year and say 23 next year.

                        If we trade down with Buffalo and can get 12, 22, 53, 65 and next year's first which we will call #18
                        and net pick # 75 next year for Apple.

                        Our picks would look like 12, 22, 34, 53, 65, 66, 69 this year + 108 and 139
                        Next year we have 3 #1s let's say 16, 18, 23 a second round pick and 2 3rds and 4th,5th,6th and 2 7s

                        So we have 13 picks in the first 3 rounds over two years. If we get 9 starters out of that group and 1 more out of the other 7 picks, and our 9 core that gives you 21 starters.

                        We should have depth with our other picks and some of the rest of our present roster.

                        Just find us a Quarterback.

                        I actually think we pick a QB at 2

                        Just speculating

                        28 days of speculating left, soon to be 27
                        It's as good as anybody else's theories. It would be a great start to start over. Where your QB is coming from could be questioned but that's a whole other thread.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So basically what you are saying ..."I just won the lotto let me spend some more of my own money plus all of my my lotto winnings on more lotto tickets to maybe win the lotto again". Hey you never know.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TEM View Post

                            I see your point. This is exactly what the brown have been doing for seasons. This model looks good on paper but has produced nothing. As a good GM you have to have the mindset to build a team to win every year. That has been an effective model for success by teams that win NE, GB, Pittsburgh, The giants all have put trophies in the case with that form of team building mentality .
                            TEM, I'm not sure the OPs approach precludes trying to win next year, though. If we use all those extra picks to give Eli what he needs to win, I think we build for the future and what Eli's replacement will need (since his replacement will probably benefit just as much). I'm not sure about the ideas concerning trading players away but the stockpiling picks approach has its merits, I believe.

                            And as for the Browns, the problem may have been in execution rather than system/philosophy. That being said, if they get their QB finally, we may see the benefits of this approach this year - they have some young talent and a lot of picks still.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by blu_buddha View Post
                              So basically what you are saying ..."I just won the lotto let me spend some more of my own money plus all of my my lotto winnings on more lotto tickets to maybe win the lotto again". Hey you never know.
                              I think your analogy only holds up if the #2 pick and Beckham have us set for life already

                              Comment

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