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Why Saquan Barkley Would Be A HUGE Mistake

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  • Why Saquan Barkley Would Be A HUGE Mistake

    So many folks are describing Saquan Barkley as the best player in the draft...a "generational" talent......Well...Maybe so.

    But the purpose of drafting players and building your team is to win football games...to win championships.
    Drafting Saquan Barkley would not help us do that....that is of course if history is any guide.

    Can anyone site the last NFL rushing leader to win a SB?
    I looked back well over 10 years and I can't find it. Can anyone name the last top 3 NFL RB to even MAKE IT to a SB?...the last one as far as I can tell was Shawn Alexander in 2005.

    How many SB's has Adrian Peterson been in? How about Barry Sanders?

    Great RB's need to be fed. they need their carries. But you score with the passing game in today's NFL. The "great" player on your offense needs to be your QB. Feeding a great RB gets your out of your offense. It makes you more one dimensional. At least that's the way it seems to me.

    If you want to WIN championships, you need players that can function well in the scheme. We can draft a player like that later, maybe with the 34th pick. Perhaps Darrius Giuce or Sony Michel.

    I'm sure Saquan will be a fine NFL player. Maybe a great RB. But will he be a part of a championship? History suggests the answer is no.

    Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

  • #2
    I agree what a lot of your assumptions. The fact remains he will is a high probability Draft pick.

    This is what I find so amusing with this thread. Do not get this "player". Get this "position". As if drafting a position will fix anything. Why not go get Manziel last I heard he is a QB and available. Why draft a "QB" when there are so many available in the open market.
    Last edited by TEM; 04-11-2018, 08:08 AM.
    The Dallas Cowboys have now gone exactly One Third of their pathetic existence without a Super bowl appearance.

    Comment


    • #3
      I happen to agree that picking Saquan at #2 would be a mistake, but it is titillating to think about how the offense would look with him, a healthy Odell and Engram all performing at a high level, with a decent OL.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fletch842 View Post
        I happen to agree that picking Saquan at #2 would be a mistake, but it is titillating to think about how the offense would look with him, a healthy Odell and Engram all performing at a high level, with a decent OL.
        With Odell, Engram and Shepard.....and the fact that there is only one football.......Why draft a RB at #2 when he is not going to get the carries....OR he IS going to get the carries and take the ball out of the hands of those pass receiving weapons?

        Feeding Odell, Engram and Shepard the ball makes more sense. You can't do both. If you want a real balanced attack, someone is going to suffer. someone is going to be angry about being under utilized.

        Given that I think we WANT a balanced attack, picking a guy like Barkley makes no sense to me. he needs to go to a team that is going to build an offense around him. Cleveland is the best place for him.
        Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

        Comment


        • #5
          the economics of drafting a running back that high are also against him. He'll immediately be one of the 2 - 3 highest paid backs in the league. No way to outplay that contract. Of the top players being discussed, he'd be my last choice. Personally, if we decide against a QB, I'd like a trade down.

          Comment


          • #6
            Eh sorry man, this "look at history" approach does not do it for me. You can cherry pick any small data set to make your point. The same could be said of #2 draft pick QBs, how many have won the Super Bowl? It's just a silly half assed method of trying to use research as a basis for not taking a player. The Pats with Blount (18 rushing TDs) won the Super Bowl two years ago, then he left their team for Philly and Philly beat the Pats in the Super Bowl.

            AP didn't win the Super Bowl, who was his QB? He was that entire team for 10 years. Same can be said for Joe Thomas.

            You mention it's a passing league and points are scored by passing. A few things of note here. How many great WRs have won the Super Bowl? Brown, Beckham, Jones, Evans, Thomas, Cooks ect. The other point is that Barkley is the #1 RB in the draft at catching the football and making plays happen in the passing game. He is everything but 1 dimensional. He is also the #1 RB at pass protection. He is not simply a pound the rock type of RB. If he was you could have some ground here, but he isn't. My third and final point for this is that you have to be a balanced offense, no one can disagree with that. We have ODB, Shep and Engram already in the passing game we don't have a running game. Having a great RB won't make us one dimensional, it will balance us out.

            Lastly you need great players to win in the NFL. No one, myself included, can possibly deny having a great QB is the best for a team. If the staff believes one is there they should take him over any other position in the draft. If there is no great QB there then you take a guy that is great, whether its RB, OG, DE or what ever other position has an amazing player.
            LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
            "Next man up"

            "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fletch842 View Post
              I happen to agree that picking Saquan at #2 would be a mistake, but it is titillating to think about how the offense would look with him, a healthy Odell and Engram all performing at a high level, with a decent OL.
              Morehead is right 100%. I see Barkley as a good player but do you recall Reggie Bush coming out of USC? Was top player in the draft and when Mario WIlliams was picked over him, a lot of fans freaked out how could the Texans choose this DE over such a once-in-a-lifetime talent? William>Bush and pick a QB or Chubb over Barkley - Moral of the story

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                Eh sorry man, this "look at history" approach does not do it for me. You can cherry pick any small data set to make your point. The same could be said of #2 draft pick QBs, how many have won the Super Bowl? It's just a silly half assed method of trying to use research as a basis for not taking a player. The Pats with Blount (18 rushing TDs) won the Super Bowl two years ago, then he left their team for Philly and Philly beat the Pats in the Super Bowl.

                AP didn't win the Super Bowl, who was his QB? He was that entire team for 10 years. Same can be said for Joe Thomas.

                You mention it's a passing league and points are scored by passing. A few things of note here. How many great WRs have won the Super Bowl? Brown, Beckham, Jones, Evans, Thomas, Cooks ect. The other point is that Barkley is the #1 RB in the draft at catching the football and making plays happen in the passing game. He is everything but 1 dimensional. He is also the #1 RB at pass protection. He is not simply a pound the rock type of RB. If he was you could have some ground here, but he isn't. My third and final point for this is that you have to be a balanced offense, no one can disagree with that. We have ODB, Shep and Engram already in the passing game we don't have a running game. Having a great RB won't make us one dimensional, it will balance us out.

                Lastly you need great players to win in the NFL. No one, myself included, can possibly deny having a great QB is the best for a team. If the staff believes one is there they should take him over any other position in the draft. If there is no great QB there then you take a guy that is great, whether its RB, OG, DE or what ever other position has an amazing player.
                That's right. "Who was his QB"?

                You need a QB. It's a QB's league.

                And are you suggesting that the last 14 years is a "small data set"? I even looked down the lists of rushing leaders. Even among the top 5 every year almost none went to a SB.
                And I went back 14 years only. I'll bet if you went further you'd see the same thing. But ultimately what matters is what's going on in today's NFL. With today's rules. rules that favor the passing game.
                Having a good running game is very helpful to win. But having a "great" running back isn't. There are too many temptations to feed that back and make them the centerpiece of the offense.
                It rarely works. I will say that Marshon Lynch was important to the Seattle SB win. But that defense was going to win that championship regardless of who the RB was.

                but Marshon seems to be the rare exception.
                Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I disagree wholeheartedly. Saquan would have the biggest immediate impact, on our entire team, of any player in this draft.

                  Eli hasn't had a running game in years, which is nuts because play action was always one of his strengths. Having Barkley in the backfield, behind an already improved OL and one we can continue to improve in the draft, and Eli finally has the threat he's lacked for years.

                  The fact we'd have a threat in the backfield also prevents defenses from constantly dropping 7-8 into coverage. Inevitably, he'd free up Odell from as many double and triple overages. We can kick him outside to create mismatches in the passing game. If we keep him in, he's very good in pass protection.

                  Our TOP has been terrible the last few years, and we've been bad in short yard and goal line situations for as long as I can remember. Our inability to pick up 3rd and 2 on a consistent basis kills drives early, forcing the defense to be on the field more than they should. Simply having a RB who can pick up these first downs and TD's will not only help the offense, but it will indirectly help the defense. They'd have the rest they need to stay fresh for four quarters, and playing with a lead will allow them to play downhill.

                  You talk about balance, adding Barkley to an already bolstered WR/TE group is the definition of balance. We don't need to build a team around anyone. We just need to add players who fit into the new system, and Barkley does just that.

                  Imagine Eli, behind an improved line, with Odell, Shep, Engram and Barkley to work with. That's scary as hell for any defense.
                  NFL Draft (Realistic Hope):

                  Rd 1
                  Garrett Bolles - OT
                  David Njoku - TE
                  Zach Cunningham - OLB

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                    Eh sorry man, this "look at history" approach does not do it for me. You can cherry pick any small data set to make your point. The same could be said of #2 draft pick QBs, how many have won the Super Bowl? It's just a silly half assed method of trying to use research as a basis for not taking a player. The Pats with Blount (18 rushing TDs) won the Super Bowl two years ago, then he left their team for Philly and Philly beat the Pats in the Super Bowl.

                    AP didn't win the Super Bowl, who was his QB? He was that entire team for 10 years. Same can be said for Joe Thomas.

                    You mention it's a passing league and points are scored by passing. A few things of note here. How many great WRs have won the Super Bowl? Brown, Beckham, Jones, Evans, Thomas, Cooks ect. The other point is that Barkley is the #1 RB in the draft at catching the football and making plays happen in the passing game. He is everything but 1 dimensional. He is also the #1 RB at pass protection. He is not simply a pound the rock type of RB. If he was you could have some ground here, but he isn't. My third and final point for this is that you have to be a balanced offense, no one can disagree with that. We have ODB, Shep and Engram already in the passing game we don't have a running game. Having a great RB won't make us one dimensional, it will balance us out.

                    Lastly you need great players to win in the NFL. No one, myself included, can possibly deny having a great QB is the best for a team. If the staff believes one is there they should take him over any other position in the draft. If there is no great QB there then you take a guy that is great, whether its RB, OG, DE or what ever other position has an amazing player.
                    +100

                    Couldn't agree more.
                    NFL Draft (Realistic Hope):

                    Rd 1
                    Garrett Bolles - OT
                    David Njoku - TE
                    Zach Cunningham - OLB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Piddy283 View Post
                      I disagree wholeheartedly. Saquan would have the biggest immediate impact, on our entire team, of any player in this draft.

                      Eli hasn't had a running game in years, which is nuts because play action was always one of his strengths. Having Barkley in the backfield, behind an already improved OL and one we can continue to improve in the draft, and Eli finally has the threat he's lacked for years.

                      The fact we'd have a threat in the backfield also prevents defenses from constantly dropping 7-8 into coverage. Inevitably, he'd free up Odell from as many double and triple overages. We can kick him outside to create mismatches in the passing game. If we keep him in, he's very good in pass protection.

                      Our TOP has been terrible the last few years, and we've been bad in short yard and goal line situations for as long as I can remember. Our inability to pick up 3rd and 2 on a consistent basis kills drives early, forcing the defense to be on the field more than they should. Simply having a RB who can pick up these first downs and TD's will not only help the offense, but it will indirectly help the defense. They'd have the rest they need to stay fresh for four quarters, and playing with a lead will allow them to play downhill.

                      You talk about balance, adding Barkley to an already bolstered WR/TE group is the definition of balance. We don't need to build a team around anyone. We just need to add players who fit into the new system, and Barkley does just that.

                      Imagine Eli, behind an improved line, with Odell, Shep, Engram and Barkley to work with. That's scary as hell for any defense.
                      Why spend the 2nd pick in the draft on a RB, when you can draft a guy like Michel at 34? You can have our QB of the future AND our RB.

                      I get that you disagree but can you cite examples of great RB's winning championships in today's NFL. I can cite plenty of great QB's who have.

                      I'll give you Marshon on a team that held Peyton Manning to single digits. Now who else?
                      Deny everything. Admit nothing. Make counter accusations.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I dont get how you use the #2 pick on a RB which will make him one of the highest paid RBs in the league before he even takes a snap. And use it on a position that does not generally have a long career.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Piddy283 View Post
                          I disagree wholeheartedly. Saquan would have the biggest immediate impact, on our entire team, of any player in this draft.

                          Eli hasn't had a running game in years, which is nuts because play action was always one of his strengths. Having Barkley in the backfield, behind an already improved OL and one we can continue to improve in the draft, and Eli finally has the threat he's lacked for years.

                          The fact we'd have a threat in the backfield also prevents defenses from constantly dropping 7-8 into coverage. Inevitably, he'd free up Odell from as many double and triple overages. We can kick him outside to create mismatches in the passing game. If we keep him in, he's very good in pass protection.

                          Our TOP has been terrible the last few years, and we've been bad in short yard and goal line situations for as long as I can remember. Our inability to pick up 3rd and 2 on a consistent basis kills drives early, forcing the defense to be on the field more than they should. Simply having a RB who can pick up these first downs and TD's will not only help the offense, but it will indirectly help the defense. They'd have the rest they need to stay fresh for four quarters, and playing with a lead will allow them to play downhill.

                          You talk about balance, adding Barkley to an already bolstered WR/TE group is the definition of balance. We don't need to build a team around anyone. We just need to add players who fit into the new system, and Barkley does just that.

                          Imagine Eli, behind an improved line, with Odell, Shep, Engram and Barkley to work with. That's scary as hell for any defense.
                          So we go from 3-13 to 7-9 with Barkley and then what do we do for a QB in 2 years?

                          Wait ... let me guess ... Davis Webb?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Morehead State View Post

                            That's right. "Who was his QB"?

                            You need a QB. It's a QB's league.
                            Haha what? Did you see who won the SB MVP?

                            Foles, Keenum and Bortles are nobodies who got their teams deep into the playoffs. This league is littered with average QB play probably more than ever. Numbers are up because of the rule changes not because of talent. Stafford is no where near the talent Marino was for example. It's not a QB league at all. You can fill that role with an average QB and still win a SB now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DandyDon View Post
                              I dont get how you use the #2 pick on a RB which will make him one of the highest paid RBs in the league before he even takes a snap. And use it on a position that does not generally have a long career.
                              I have a feeling that Gettleman won't trade back.

                              With all of his Hog Mollie talk, I feel like we probably take Chubb at 2 if Darnold is gone. Great player at a position more highly valued than RB ... and a "Hog Mollie"

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