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Value of Position versus Value of Player

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  • #16
    Originally posted by TEM View Post

    Yea but that does not always win Ben Eli Rodgers Brady all have won with big contracts. Investment assets and value are 2 different things. A good investment can put a trophy in the case . Placing a value on a player in the draft opposed to a position builds a team.
    Of course it's not a black and white thing. It's about increasing your odds, just because you have great odds doesn't mean you'll win. I used qb in that example, but you obviously have to sign a QB that is proven capable, the opportunity cost of letting him go is too great.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Imgrate View Post

      I would tend to agree, but I don't think it's as big of a gap as we might think. Alot of free agent pickups and/or contract extensions end up poorly.
      Some do If some put the team over the top.
      Last edited by TEM; 05-13-2018, 06:55 AM.
      "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

      Comment


      • #18
        I think the value of the player needs to take priority over the position. Now I also think it should not be so completely black and white. If a WR was the best player on the board this year I don't think we would have or should have taken him. Same with a TE. Barkley was the best player AND a position of need. In order for a more "valuable" position to have been picked before him that player would have needed a rating very close to his. In this same regard the Colts passed on getting a QB this year because they don't need one.

        I would rather a great player and less important position instead of a bust at a really important position. Think of us taking Flowers instead of Gurley.

        With that said I do believe the NFL is beginning to value high end RBs much more lately. The #1 RB has been taken top 5 in each of the last three drafts, top 10 in each of the last 4. Teams see what Gurley, Fournette and Elliot have done to help their teams and like it; hopefully Barkley continues this trend. RB, QB and DE are the only positions taken top 5 in each of the last 3 drafts. There have been more RBs taken top 5 in the last 5 drafts than CBs or OL. I think the trend continues next year with Bryce Love.
        LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
        "Next man up"

        "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

        Comment


        • #19
          This is definitely a legitimate discussion, but in the end if you pick a great player, who cares?

          For example, OT and CB are arguably more valuable positions than RB. Who would you rather have - Flowers, Apple or Saquon?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by TEM View Post

            I tried to wrap my head around the rational for a pick . I tried to look at it from a perspective that was not my own, What the NFL does and has been doing ? Why the Giants did not follow the status quo.
            That was something you wrote and didn't copy & paste from somewhere?? If so great job. Enjoyed reading it
            Football has been very, very good to us.
            After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
            But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

            # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

            1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
            2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
            3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
            4-New York Giants!!!
            5-NE
            Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

            ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
              This is definitely a legitimate discussion, but in the end if you pick a great player, who cares?

              For example, OT and CB are arguably more valuable positions than RB. Who would you rather have - Flowers, Apple or Saquon?
              Flowers
              Football has been very, very good to us.
              After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
              But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

              # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

              1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
              2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
              3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
              4-New York Giants!!!
              5-NE
              Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

              ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

              Comment


              • #22
                Wow under the new format it's easy to type in red or any other color

                Remember the old way you had to jump through a ton of hoops using some formula to get colors lol
                Football has been very, very good to us.
                After losing seasons 2013-15, the giants put up 11 wins in 16.. they are on way Back
                But for now we can console ourselves with this fact-

                # of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

                1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
                2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
                3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
                4-New York Giants!!!
                5-NE
                Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE NE again!!!

                ***Stat provided by "Schloss22"***

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by TCHOF View Post
                  This is definitely a legitimate discussion, but in the end if you pick a great player, who cares?

                  For example, OT and CB are arguably more valuable positions than RB. Who would you rather have - Flowers, Apple or Saquon?
                  Flowers smell nice, Apples taste good and with any luck a Saquon can play some damn football. I bet you anything that if you asked on draft night a few years back who we should take Flowers or Gurley 90% of this board would have said Flowers. We reached for position and paid the price.
                  Last edited by IrishMike357; 05-12-2018, 10:26 PM.
                  LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                  "Next man up"

                  "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                    I think the value of the player needs to take priority over the position. Now I also think it should not be so completely black and white. If a WR was the best player on the board this year I don't think we would have or should have taken him. Same with a TE. Barkley was the best player AND a position of need. In order for a more "valuable" position to have been picked before him that player would have needed a rating very close to his. In this same regard the Colts passed on getting a QB this year because they don't need one.

                    I would rather a great player and less important position instead of a bust at a really important position. Think of us taking Flowers instead of Gurley.

                    With that said I do believe the NFL is beginning to value high end RBs much more lately. The #1 RB has been taken top 5 in each of the last three drafts, top 10 in each of the last 4. Teams see what Gurley, Fournette and Elliot have done to help their teams and like it; hopefully Barkley continues this trend. RB, QB and DE are the only positions taken top 5 in each of the last 3 drafts. There have been more RBs taken top 5 in the last 5 drafts than CBs or OL. I think the trend continues next year with Bryce Love.
                    I agree with this Mike well said.
                    "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Come on guys. I want to here the why the positions is important proponents .You guys comment in every other thread. Now explain why Position trumps the Player.

                      Here is a thread for you guys to show why you are correct.

                      This is not sarcasm .i am being genuine.

                      Last edited by TEM; 05-13-2018, 08:55 AM.
                      "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I can take a "just ok" player that fits my need vs. a "great" player even though I have a "just ok" player already at that position.

                        I'll take the great player all the time.
                        "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." -- Dr. Seuss

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by WayBackFan View Post
                          I can take a "just ok" player that fits my need vs. a "great" player even though I have a "just ok" player already at that position.

                          I'll take the great player all the time.
                          I agree.
                          "Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad." Darrell Royal

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I also think when considering this and looking at numbers of players drafted or salaries of players it is important to remember that most positions in football start two players. WR, OT, OG, CB, S, LB, DE, DT all start multiple players; so it becomes increasingly important to hit those positions because having one stud is not enough. If you have the greatest CB ever teams can just throw away from him. QB, RB, C and TE (sort of) only have 1 starter.

                            Let's pretend that Barkley and Hernandez are great players this year and in next years draft we have a great RB and OG sitting there for us. We would take the OG for sure over the RB. I think teams are more likely to pass on players that come from QB, RB, C or TE because they only need 1 great one.

                            Just more food for thought.

                            I doubt the position > player people will show up because there is no logic behind it to defend their thoughts. I spent the last 5 months discussing it with them and they never had an answer. They simply didn't want Barkley or Nelson.
                            LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                            "Next man up"

                            "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by IrishMike357 View Post
                              Flowers smell nice, Apples taste good and with any luck a Saquon can play some damn football. I bet you anything that if you asked on draft night a few years back who we should take Flowers or Gurley 90% of this board would have said Flowers. We reached for position and paid the price.
                              People forget that Gurley was still recovering from ACL surgery during that draft. That wss a big concern

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Imgrate View Post

                                People forget that Gurley was still recovering from ACL surgery during that draft. That wss a big concern
                                Imagine if Reese had drafted Gurley and passed on Flowers and Gurley hurt his knee again? People would have flipped out that Reese didn't care about the OL.
                                LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
                                "Next man up"

                                "I am a nasty football player, I get after people. That is something that I am very proud of. I am out there and I am physical every play, making sure that the guy across from me wants to quit." - Adam Bisnowaty

                                Comment

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