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  • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]


    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"]Just curious, does Courtny Upshaw ever drop into coverage?

    I love his closing burst, his hustle, and special teams work. However, he's ALWAYS on the line... he's Kiwi 2.0

    I'm kinda doubting that they take a LB unless he's a great value... I think the LB's are going to improve this year.

    Maybe DL, (one of the North Carolina DE's would be amazing), WR (I'd still love to get Jeffery), RB if value presents... maybe a Safety if there are any good ones this year.
    [/quote] There is alot of value with LB though... I mean, Zach Brown/Kuelechy, Burfict/Te'o and Trav Lewis... I guess they could wait, but theres a nice crop right there... But, who knows...
    [/quote]

    Oh, I agree. if one of those guys falls to the Giants, I think they'll take one, but if it comes between Coples and one of them... (actually, with his injuries and lack of size, Lewis may be had in the 2nd... that would make for an AWESOME draft)
    [/quote] Ya, his injury going into this yr might bite Travis Lewis in the rear, but i've watched that kid enough to realize hes the type of player i like! I actually wanted Travis Lewis this past yr in the first ROUND well before the draft appraoched obviously... The kid is a playmaker, that gets involved, and seems to always be around the ball.. I picture Travis Lewis and Fewell as a match made in heaven...

    I think Trav Lewis would be the perfect replacement for Boley when the time comes, and i think Trav Lewis does the kinda things we envisioned Boley doing when we signed em... If we could steal Travis Lewis in the 2nd round, i'd be amped and surprised...

    All this said, i've been saying all offseason that i really like what Reese has done with this LB unit, and how hes brought together what i feel is a strong unit, about to really explode onto the scene this season.. Getting guys like Tracy in RD 6 and Greg Jones in RD 6, and Goff in rd 5, and Dillard in 4...etc All these guys were bigtime players on there teams in college, and fell because of suspect reasons, and reese was there waiting... Trav would be the final piece to the puzzle...
    [/quote]

    Those guys falling is another reason why they may not take a linebacker in the 1st... why take a guy in the 1st when he's going to fall to the 2nd or 3rd?

    Linebackers are kinda turning into the TE's of the defense (certainly for 43 teams). Yeah a good/great one is important, but there are much more important positions... its a 2nd round position now. (yes, I realize Miller went 2nd overall this year, but that's because of his passrushing ability, not overall linebacking.)

    From what I've seen, I kinda think Upshaw is the first LB off the board (I'm thinking San Fran or Buffalo), just because he can get to the passer.
    [/quote] well, it depends.. Greg JOnes kinda fell for things i never agree with, like size, overall speed and being thought of as more straight line downhill LB and not multi dimensional... I totally dissagred and think his heart and fire along with tenacity and instincts to play this game are what should be looked at.. The guy just knows what to do on a football field, and even though hes not known for playing the pass, i could see him make some plays on pure effort alone in that area... Goff was similar to Jones, and i remember seeing Goff predicited to go in RD 3 by some sites and he ended up in RD 5 because of being known as mostly a downhill thumper, but reese sees these guys as firey give all players that find the ball and go hard every play, and strive to make the plays..

    Adrian Tracy is another guy who fell because he was a undersized DE that was gonna have to make the switch in the pros and also was at small school Will and Mary.. I loved tracy because of his "motor" and ability to make plays and smarts.. The guys like super smart, has a fantastic body on em, and nice length.. Reese ends up getting him in rd 6.. Reese is very smart at finding talent in the draft, and if i was ever a GM, i'd be very similar to Reese as far as drafting goes...
    [/quote]Yeah overall Athleticism is the Number 1 thing defensive players are drafted on.This doesnt mean guys can not become good or even great players its just a way of determining value.Coaches and scouts are always going to take the best athletes first.




    There are way to many variables in College football to take guysonthere college production.Just look at Tyler Sash. Sash made a ton of plays in College but when u look at the context of how he made the plays u can see how Iowas defensehad a lot to do with his interceptions. Did Sash make plays when given the opportunity to make them? Absolutely and thats important as well but Iowas zone coveragesafforded Sash a lot of opportunities and masked some of his weaknesses.




    When U know what a guys physical limitations are u can assess value and figure out the best way to use there talents. The idea being the better the athlete the more u can do.Of course within each teams defense they look for certain things at certain spots and degree of athletic ability might not be as important for some positions. As much as Id like to a MLB thats athletic enough to get deep into the passing lanes it doesnt change the fact the Giants value stout run defending between the tackles first and foremost. The Giants simply dont have to use a high pick to get what they want out of the MLB position




    [/quote] THe thing is, these guys are so close physically, in my opinion, most of the times its the other stuff that seperates em, like quite frankly, knowing how to play the game...lol Guys like Sash just know how to play, they can kinda project and have a feel for whats gonna happen and can react quickly and diagnose, which makes up for the extremely little bit of speed there giving up or size..etc Does that mean, its gonna work like that every play? Of course not, but as a whole, thats what i personally think..

    Take JPP for instance.. Sure, hes as athletic as it gets and has great size, but none of that matters if he dosen't have a great motor, and idea of how to make plays and feel for the game..

    Hasen't sash been making Picks like left and right in training camp? I could of sworn i read where he made a pick yesterday and it was described as "yet another pick"...

    Either way, i think your slowely seeing a trend toward taking the good football player as long as there not totally liabilities in a size or athletic standpoint earlier and earlier over the athlete who may or may not eventually utilitze that fully on the NFL level.. To be a Good GM, u have to be able to get players that have a bit of both, athletic ability and football know how....
    [/quote]




    Absolutely but it wont change the fact that the better athletes will be taken earlier. Doesnt mean a guy cant be succeesful Im just talking about draft value.







    Anyway U know how U and I were both terrified of drafting Ryan Williams because of injury history. Well he got hurt last night. They think Ruptured Patella Tendon done for the season

    [/quote] yup.. I saw that.. I was gonna mention it to u as well... Just didn't make sense jumping on Ryan Williams when Arizona did... As it turns out, Mikel Leshoure got injured as well, but they could of waited.. I mean, they did just draft Beanie in RD 1 the yr before last.. I'd of given beanie one more yr before i considered going that route so early, unless it was a guy less of a gamble..

    Comment


    • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

      [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]


      [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Raptor22"]Just curious, does Courtny Upshaw ever drop into coverage?

      I love his closing burst, his hustle, and special teams work. However, he's ALWAYS on the line... he's Kiwi 2.0

      I'm kinda doubting that they take a LB unless he's a great value... I think the LB's are going to improve this year.

      Maybe DL, (one of the North Carolina DE's would be amazing), WR (I'd still love to get Jeffery), RB if value presents... maybe a Safety if there are any good ones this year.
      [/quote] There is alot of value with LB though... I mean, Zach Brown/Kuelechy, Burfict/Te'o and Trav Lewis... I guess they could wait, but theres a nice crop right there... But, who knows...
      [/quote]

      Oh, I agree. if one of those guys falls to the Giants, I think they'll take one, but if it comes between Coples and one of them... (actually, with his injuries and lack of size, Lewis may be had in the 2nd... that would make for an AWESOME draft)
      [/quote] Ya, his injury going into this yr might bite Travis Lewis in the rear, but i've watched that kid enough to realize hes the type of player i like! I actually wanted Travis Lewis this past yr in the first ROUND well before the draft appraoched obviously... The kid is a playmaker, that gets involved, and seems to always be around the ball.. I picture Travis Lewis and Fewell as a match made in heaven...

      I think Trav Lewis would be the perfect replacement for Boley when the time comes, and i think Trav Lewis does the kinda things we envisioned Boley doing when we signed em... If we could steal Travis Lewis in the 2nd round, i'd be amped and surprised...

      All this said, i've been saying all offseason that i really like what Reese has done with this LB unit, and how hes brought together what i feel is a strong unit, about to really explode onto the scene this season.. Getting guys like Tracy in RD 6 and Greg Jones in RD 6, and Goff in rd 5, and Dillard in 4...etc All these guys were bigtime players on there teams in college, and fell because of suspect reasons, and reese was there waiting... Trav would be the final piece to the puzzle...
      [/quote]

      Those guys falling is another reason why they may not take a linebacker in the 1st... why take a guy in the 1st when he's going to fall to the 2nd or 3rd?

      Linebackers are kinda turning into the TE's of the defense (certainly for 43 teams). Yeah a good/great one is important, but there are much more important positions... its a 2nd round position now. (yes, I realize Miller went 2nd overall this year, but that's because of his passrushing ability, not overall linebacking.)

      From what I've seen, I kinda think Upshaw is the first LB off the board (I'm thinking San Fran or Buffalo), just because he can get to the passer.
      [/quote] well, it depends.. Greg JOnes kinda fell for things i never agree with, like size, overall speed and being thought of as more straight line downhill LB and not multi dimensional... I totally dissagred and think his heart and fire along with tenacity and instincts to play this game are what should be looked at.. The guy just knows what to do on a football field, and even though hes not known for playing the pass, i could see him make some plays on pure effort alone in that area... Goff was similar to Jones, and i remember seeing Goff predicited to go in RD 3 by some sites and he ended up in RD 5 because of being known as mostly a downhill thumper, but reese sees these guys as firey give all players that find the ball and go hard every play, and strive to make the plays..

      Adrian Tracy is another guy who fell because he was a undersized DE that was gonna have to make the switch in the pros and also was at small school Will and Mary.. I loved tracy because of his "motor" and ability to make plays and smarts.. The guys like super smart, has a fantastic body on em, and nice length.. Reese ends up getting him in rd 6.. Reese is very smart at finding talent in the draft, and if i was ever a GM, i'd be very similar to Reese as far as drafting goes...
      [/quote]Yeah overall Athleticism is the Number 1 thing defensive players are drafted on.This doesnt mean guys can not become good or even great players its just a way of determining value.Coaches and scouts are always going to take the best athletes first.




      There are way to many variables in College football to take guysonthere college production.Just look at Tyler Sash. Sash made a ton of plays in College but when u look at the context of how he made the plays u can see how Iowas defensehad a lot to do with his interceptions. Did Sash make plays when given the opportunity to make them? Absolutely and thats important as well but Iowas zone coveragesafforded Sash a lot of opportunities and masked some of his weaknesses.




      When U know what a guys physical limitations are u can assess value and figure out the best way to use there talents. The idea being the better the athlete the more u can do.Of course within each teams defense they look for certain things at certain spots and degree of athletic ability might not be as important for some positions. As much as Id like to a MLB thats athletic enough to get deep into the passing lanes it doesnt change the fact the Giants value stout run defending between the tackles first and foremost. The Giants simply dont have to use a high pick to get what they want out of the MLB position




      [/quote] THe thing is, these guys are so close physically, in my opinion, most of the times its the other stuff that seperates em, like quite frankly, knowing how to play the game...lol Guys like Sash just know how to play, they can kinda project and have a feel for whats gonna happen and can react quickly and diagnose, which makes up for the extremely little bit of speed there giving up or size..etc Does that mean, its gonna work like that every play? Of course not, but as a whole, thats what i personally think..

      Take JPP for instance.. Sure, hes as athletic as it gets and has great size, but none of that matters if he dosen't have a great motor, and idea of how to make plays and feel for the game..

      Hasen't sash been making Picks like left and right in training camp? I could of sworn i read where he made a pick yesterday and it was described as "yet another pick"...

      Either way, i think your slowely seeing a trend toward taking the good football player as long as there not totally liabilities in a size or athletic standpoint earlier and earlier over the athlete who may or may not eventually utilitze that fully on the NFL level.. To be a Good GM, u have to be able to get players that have a bit of both, athletic ability and football know how....
      [/quote]




      Absolutely but it wont change the fact that the better athletes will be taken earlier. Doesnt mean a guy cant be succeesful Im just talking about draft value.







      Anyway U know how U and I were both terrified of drafting Ryan Williams because of injury history. Well he got hurt last night. They think Ruptured Patella Tendon done for the season

      [/quote] yup.. I saw that.. I was gonna mention it to u as well... Just didn't make sense jumping on Ryan Williams when Arizona did... As it turns out, Mikel Leshoure got injured as well, but they could of waited.. I mean, they did just draft Beanie in RD 1 the yr before last.. I'd of given beanie one more yr before i considered going that route so early, unless it was a guy less of a gamble..
      [/quote]Oh yeah forgot about Leshoure. His injury is real bad. Career is probably signifgantly altered

      Comment


      • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

        It would be sweet if UM got the death penalty.

        Ucf has been starting to get kids out of Miami area and we could very well take Miami's spot in the acc.

        We just built a new stadium on campus, top 5 in student attendance, coming off a bowl win and we're pretty much the only team in orlando besides the magic.

        Comment


        • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

          [quote user="Raptor22"]Also, how does everybody think the potential nuking of The Hurricanes (because I think the NCAA has painted themselves into a corner where they will feel they NEED to use the death penalty on The U), will affect the draft?


          [/quote]its sucks for sure but hopefully it wont be another UNC situation where players are sitting out all year becasue there are a few canes i like.

          Comment


          • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

            [quote user="Redeyejedi"]

            [quote user="Raptor22"]Also, how does everybody think the potential nuking of The Hurricanes (because I think the NCAA has painted themselves into a corner where they will feel they NEED to use the death penalty on The U), will affect the draft?


            [/quote]




            These are some of the worst accusations Ive seen for NCAA football. Money, cars, jewelry, prostitutes, hotel rooms, televisions and trips on yachts. This will probably be worse then the last time they got in trouble. This suspension could push them back at least 5 years maybe 10. By the time they are allowed to recover schools like South Florida and UCF who are on the rise will have a very strong foothold in the talent rich Miami- West Palm Beacharea. Those 2 programs should get a huge influx of talent from this. Dont be surprised to see these schools be fixtures in the Top 20 from Now on.

            [/quote]eh idk about that. FSU and florida will definitely benefit more but your right there will be an influx of talent to those schools.

            Comment


            • Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

              did anybody see the move tyrod taylor put on justin houston the other night? really wish we would of got that kid.

              Comment


              • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft



                TCU Baylor tonight. Pretty good game before some big time match ups tommorow. I will be watching Tank Carder and Tanner Brock intently as well as Baylors QB Robert Griffin. Cant wait for Saturday.




                Notre Dame vs South Florida




                LSU-Oregon




                Boise State Georgia just to name a few

                Comment


                • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                  Im a massive Greg Reid fan. The kid is tiny, probs too small to make it as an NFL DB, but he just flies around the field and is everywhere the ball is. He's like an exorcet missile homing in on the ball.

                  Chances are he's doesnt come outta college until the 2013 Draft anyways.

                  Great college football player
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                    Anyone see the ASU vs UC Davis game. I hope someone puts it up. Vontaze Burfict had 3 sacks

                    Comment


                    • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                      anybody see the throw the VT QB made running to his left? kids got an arm

                      Comment


                      • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                        [quote user="Redeyejedi"]Anyone see the ASU vs UC Davis game. I hope someone puts it up. Vontaze Burfict had 3 sacks[/quote] Ya, luke Kuelechy( hate his name!!lol) had a monster game in a loss to NW as well..

                        Comment


                        • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                          [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Anyone see the ASU vs UC Davis game. I hope someone puts it up. Vontaze Burfict had 3 sacks[/quote] Ya, luke Kuelechy( hate his name!!lol) had a monster game in a loss to NW as well..
                          [/quote]Yeah watched the first half he had 10 Tackles and a pick.1 real bad MT though guy scored a TD on

                          Comment


                          • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                            [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Anyone see the ASU vs UC Davis game. I hope someone puts it up. Vontaze Burfict had 3 sacks[/quote] Ya, luke Kuelechy( hate his name!!lol) had a monster game in a loss to NW as well..
                            [/quote]Yeah watched the first half he had 10 Tackles and a pick.1 real bad MT though guy scored a TD on[/quote] Ya, he overpursued on a TD run by NW, but whatever.. Dude, was litteraly everywhere for BC.. I know its only 1game, and i was pretty much sold on him all ready, but i'm even more sold now.. hes really something...


                            Case Keenum is a QB whos really impressing me.. Sure, its a wideopen offense, but the guys balls are really tight spirals, and hes very accurate, and has adequte size.. I think Keenum would be a solid guy for a West Coast team, and possibly any offense.. I'm gonna continue to monitor him all yr.. Very accurate and decisive in his decison making, and seems to have more then enough zip on short to intermediete throws...

                            Comment


                            • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft



                              The more I watch of QB Ryan Tannehill the more I like him. He is still fairly new to the QB position in college having played WR at Texas A&M. I see NFL accuracy all over his tape. He is able to thread a needle. Why some College QB's Im left wondering if they can hit small windows I dont worry about that with Tannehill because I can see it. He has the NFL body standing 6'5", very athletic and Mobile with his backround at WR. He is becoming a must Tape breakdown for me at QB. Right now Id put him 3rd right behind Luck and Barkley and I could see him moving up. My early Top 5 of draft eligible QB's




                              1. Andrew Luck Stanford




                              2. Matt Barkley USC




                              3. Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M




                              4. Aaron Murray Georgia




                              5. Landry Jones Oklahoma

                              Comment


                              • Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

                                2013 kid I will break down eventually QB Brock Osweiller of ASU. Very impressed with him. Seen all 4 of his starts and ASU is a much better football team with him at QB. Didnt watch to much QB film last year but I think theres an outside shot we can see a QB taken by the NY GIants. If things get bad enough, Coughlinwill be fired a new coach will be here. A new coach who might not be as forgiving to Elis poor play. He may want his own guy in here and Eli would only be an 8 million dollar cap hit if he was cut

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