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A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

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  • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Ya, i'm not fully sold on cj spiller even now.. Hes still only getting about 14-15 carries a game with fred jackson out, and eventually there gonna up em in carries, and then i have a feeling ur gonna see em get injured.. Its about time hes doing something sthough..lol
    Ehh.. 1st week they were getting blown out so much they had to go away from the run early. Furthermore, it is hard to get 20+ carries a game when you are averaging over 10 yards per carry. The offense just isnt on the field that much.

    However, I would argue that Wilson(and Martin) is a better prospect coming out than Spiller was. getting those guys at 31 and 32 seem a far better bargain. A point I think I have made in regards to the excellence of last year's rb class and it's value.
    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Also, his age has nothing to do with Coughlin not playing em..
    I am not making excuses for his fumble, nor have I ever implied his age is why he isnt getting carries. Rather I have said TC doesnt often play rookies on offense. That is fact, not opinion. It has a lot to do with his believe in ball security and it has a lot to do with this complicated offense. But Bradshaw has been our main back here for a few years now and people forget, he was nothing but a kick returner for almost all of his rookie year here. He didnt understand the offense and has a fumble issue early on as well. How would you have rated him after his 1st 2 games?

    My point is you sounding the horn of no performance after week 2 is a lil ridiculous.Especially when he has been a good contributor on special teams. In truth, it seems a bit of sour grapes because you didnt like the pick. I seem to remember many people last year saying almost the exact same about JJ when we had a midseason rash of injuries to our WRS.."this kid needs to step up." and "everyone ahead of him is hurt and he still doesnt see the field" but since you liked that pick you came to his defense saying it is still far too early to call him out. But now you are calling out Wilson even earlier than they did JJ.


    Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Yesterday, Lamar Miller whos the same age as David Wilson didnt fumble right away and didn't drop a pass and took his opp by the horns and ran really well gaining 65yrd on 10carrys.. Now he's gonna get a share of the load next week, and if he takes his opp adn does well, it'll just keep evolving..
    I seem to remember being very high on Miller last spring. I also seem to remember you saying you did not like him at all and he was well below Chris Polk. I find it ironic that you would now try to use him as an example.
    Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-17-2012, 05:46 PM.
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    • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
      Ehh.. 1st week they were getting blown out so much they had to go away from the run early. Furthermore, it is hard to get 20+ carries a game when you are averaging over 10 yards per carry. The offense just isnt on the field that much.

      However, I would argue that Wilson(and Martin) is a better prospect coming out than Spiller was. getting those guys at 31 and 32 seem a far better bargain. A point I think I have made in regards to the excellence of last year's rb class and it's value.


      I am not making excuses for his fumble, nor have I ever implied his age is why he isnt getting carries. Rather I have said TC doesnt often play rookies on offense. That is fact, not opinion. It has a lot to do with his believe in ball security and it has a lot to do with this complicated offense. But Bradshaw has been our main back here for a few years now and people forget, he was nothing but a kick returner for almost all of his rookie year here. He didnt understand the offense and has a fumble issue early on as well. How would you have rated him after his 1st 2 games?

      My point is you sounding the horn of no performance after week 2 is a lil ridiculous.Especially when he has been a good contributor on special teams. In truth, it seems a bit of sour grapes because you didnt like the pick. I seem to remember many people last year saying almost the exact same about JJ when we had a midseason rash of injuries to our WRS.."this kid needs to step up." and "everyone ahead of him is hurt and he still doesnt see the field" but since you liked that pick you came to his defense saying it is still far too early to call him out. But now you are calling out Wilson even earlier than they did JJ.




      I seem to remember being very high on Miller last spring. I also seem to remember you saying you did not like him at all and he was well below Chris Polk. I find it ironic that you would now try to use him as an example.
      The thing that bothers me about Wilson is his awareness and instincts. He just doesnt have a great feel for how plays develop. Physically the guys incredible ,his balance is insane I wonder if it will end up holding him back. Will he be more of a complimentary guy or can he be a feared player like Lesean Mccoy.
      Spiller I liked for the Giants a lot. He is finally becoming the big play threat I thought he would be.Didnt like that the Bills picked him.I thought they would ruin him like everyone else they draft. He started playing well last season when they gave him 20 touches at the end of the year.
      I was watching tape on Lacy today and Jalston Fowler the other Alabama back really was the one that impressed. They used him as FB and TB and he was really something against Michigan. He was blowing up LB's as a lead Blocker and really showed great short area quickness for a 6-1 245 pound back. Unfortunately he got hurt so we wont see him again till next year. To be honest I think Lacy may be the 3rd best RB on Alabama.

      I like the Junior from LSU Alfred Blue. Hasnt been getting much pub I think people are sleeping on him. LSU rotates all those guys in so not 1 of them really stands out, I have no doubt if he was getting 30 carries at Wisconsin or MSU he would be putting up 150 yards a game

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      • ah ya, ur right, i didn't like Lamar miller.. I never said i did.. I'm just pointing out the fact that the guys all ready performing at a very high level at the age u kinda keep saying is a excuse for David Wilson..If Lamar Miller ends up being a stud, it won't be the first time i was wrong and certainly not the last..

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        • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
          The thing that bothers me about Wilson is his awareness and instincts. He just doesnt have a great feel for how plays develop. Physically the guys incredible ,his balance is insane I wonder if it will end up holding him back. Will he be more of a complimentary guy or can he be a feared player like Lesean Mccoy.
          Spiller I liked for the Giants a lot. He is finally becoming the big play threat I thought he would be.Didnt like that the Bills picked him.I thought they would ruin him like everyone else they draft. He started playing well last season when they gave him 20 touches at the end of the year.
          I was watching tape on Lacy today and Jalston Fowler the other Alabama back really was the one that impressed. They used him as FB and TB and he was really something against Michigan. He was blowing up LB's as a lead Blocker and really showed great short area quickness for a 6-1 245 pound back. Unfortunately he got hurt so we wont see him again till next year. To be honest I think Lacy may be the 3rd best RB on Alabama.

          I like the Junior from LSU Alfred Blue. Hasnt been getting much pub I think people are sleeping on him. LSU rotates all those guys in so not 1 of them really stands out, I have no doubt if he was getting 30 carries at Wisconsin or MSU he would be putting up 150 yards a game
          Yes, u pretty much have the same worries i have about WIlson, and always have.. As far as Physicallity goes, that is another reason i felt Martin was hands down the better prospect then WIlson, and only with Trent Richardson as 1st rders.. I feel Martin brings that physical element to the game and also has teh speed to hit the edge as well.. WIlson always has had that feel of Complementry back to me, more so then starter who can handle a big workload... Even if he starts, i got a feeling it'll always be part of a package deal with another back.. Theres nothing wrong with that, but to me those are guys u take in RD 2 the earliest.

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          • Also, as for Coughlin not playing rookies thats about as much not a fact as can be.. He plays rookies when playing the rookie is the best best option.. Almost always our 1st rder plays immedietly or at least a good amount by rookie yr end.. The only way he don't play rookies is if there are quality vets ahead of them.. Sure, when ur mario manningham and ur drafted and u got plaxico and toomer and all those guys ahead of u, ur not gonna play much kinda thing.. I could name a ton of rookies we've had that play there fair share during there rookie season.. Most of the guys that don't, are guys that still don't play much.. Guys like Barden and Jerrnigan, who just didn't do much with there opp's or were injury prone most of there rookie yrs..etc..etc

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            • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
              Also, as for Coughlin not playing rookies thats about as much not a fact as can be.. He plays rookies when playing the rookie is the best best option..
              If it isnt a fact, please provide examples. Lets compare examples ok? Remember, my statement was that TC has always been slow to introduce rookies to the lineup, especially on OFFENSE.


              Here are the examples supporting my claim:
              Kevin Boss - didnt play meaningful until late in the season
              Ahmad Bradshaw - was kickoff returner until late in the season(November) and few carries until vry late.
              Hakeem Nicks - played some early, but not named a starter till into season, Started 6 games despite huge need at the wr position.
              Steve Smith - Played very sparingly early. No meaningful playtime till the playoffs.
              Mario Manningham- 4 receptions his rookie year.
              Brandon Jacobs - 38 carries his rookie year, mostly in mop up duty when we had big leads and on short yardage plays.
              Sinorice Moss - *crickets chirp*
              Da'rel Scott - 5 carries as a rookie, 1st 1 came in november.
              Jerrel Jernigan - No stats recorded on offense despite heavy injuries to the WR corp in mid season.
              James Brewer - nothing, zip, has he even been active for a game?
              Will Beatty - Didnt get on the field till late his rookie year.
              Ramses Barden - 1 catch as a rookie and it came in January.
              Travis Beckum - 8 receptions as a rookie
              Andre Brown- bad example because he injured himself early but his playtime saturday was his 1st meaningful playtime ever.

              That is pretty much every offensive rookie in the last half decade+. I may have missed some, but I think the evidence supporting my claim is pretty overwhelming.
              Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-17-2012, 10:22 PM.
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              • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                If it isnt a fact, please provide examples. Lets compare examples ok? Remember, my statement was that TC has always been slow to introduce rookies to the lineup, especially on OFFENSE.


                Here are the examples supporting my claim:
                Kevin Boss - didnt play until late in the season
                Ahmad Bradshaw - was kickoff returner until late in the season(November) and even then only a few carries.
                Hakeem Nicks - played some sparingly early, but not named a starter till mid season.
                Steve Smith - Played very sparingly early. No meaningful playtime till the playoffs
                Mario Manningham- 4 receptions his rookie year.
                Brandon Jacobs - 38 carries his rookie year, mostly in mop up duty when we had big leads and on short yardage plays.
                Sinorice Moss - *crickets chirp*
                Da'rel Scott - 5 carries as a rookie, 1st 1 came in november.
                Jerrel Jernigan - No stats recorded on offense despite heavy injuries to the WR corp in mid season.
                James Brewer - nothing, zip, has he even been active for a game?
                Will Beatty - Didnt get on the field till late his rookie year.
                Ramses Barden - 1 catch as a rookie and it came in January.
                Travis Beckum - 8 receptions as a rookie
                Andre Brown- bad example because he injured himself early but his playtime saturday was his 1st meaningful playtime ever.

                That is pretty much every offensive rookie in the last half decade+. I may have missed some, but I think the evidence supporting my claim is pretty overwhelming.
                Snee and Diehl started Day 1 thats about it.

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                • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                  Snee and Diehl started Day 1 thats about it.

                  Snee was drafted 2004 and Diehl 2003. So Snee is the lone exception because Deihl was under Fassel as a rookie.

                  It is actually quite amazing how consistent TC's policy has been towards offensive rookies.
                  Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-17-2012, 10:23 PM.
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                  • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                    If it isnt a fact, please provide examples. Lets compare examples ok? Remember, my statement was that TC has always been slow to introduce rookies to the lineup, especially on OFFENSE.


                    Here are the examples supporting my claim:
                    Kevin Boss - didnt play meaningful until late in the season
                    Ahmad Bradshaw - was kickoff returner until late in the season(November) and few carries until vry late.
                    Hakeem Nicks - played some early, but not named a starter till into season, Started 6 games despite huge need at the wr position.
                    Steve Smith - Played very sparingly early. No meaningful playtime till the playoffs.
                    Mario Manningham- 4 receptions his rookie year.
                    Brandon Jacobs - 38 carries his rookie year, mostly in mop up duty when we had big leads and on short yardage plays.
                    Sinorice Moss - *crickets chirp*
                    Da'rel Scott - 5 carries as a rookie, 1st 1 came in november.
                    Jerrel Jernigan - No stats recorded on offense despite heavy injuries to the WR corp in mid season.
                    James Brewer - nothing, zip, has he even been active for a game?
                    Will Beatty - Didnt get on the field till late his rookie year.
                    Ramses Barden - 1 catch as a rookie and it came in January.
                    Travis Beckum - 8 receptions as a rookie
                    Andre Brown- bad example because he injured himself early but his playtime saturday was his 1st meaningful playtime ever.

                    That is pretty much every offensive rookie in the last half decade+. I may have missed some, but I think the evidence supporting my claim is pretty overwhelming.
                    Ya, and just about all of those guys had very good players ahead of them.. David WIlson does not.. he dosen't have Jeremey Shockey, Plax and Toomer, Bradshaw and Jacobs, in front of em, does he? Like i said, COughlin plays rookies when playing the rookie is the best solution.. David Wilson should be the best solution.. He was given first crack after Bradshaw went down, and did nothing.. He soured again with his 2ypc and dropped pass..

                    And also, half ur guys ont hat list still don't play..lol Because they weren't good draft picks, as it happens sometimes..

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                    • Rookies normally don't start unless there the best option.. If u got a first rd pick and a guy who is a journey man who had minus yards for his career, then u go with the rookie unless the rookie isn't getting it done.. Now can that change? Of course it can, but it hasen't yet and it has nothing to do at all with coughlin not wanting to play Wilson as a rookie.. I mean, he was playing early right outta the gates but he had a ridiculous fumble.. Do u think if he had a decent run, then coughlin would of just not used em? He was splittling carries with bradshaw right outta the gates dude , untill he su-cked and made a horrendus TO and did nothing with his other carries.. He was first in yesterday before Brown, but had a horrendus drop and again did nothing with his carries..

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                      • Nicks played immedietly by the way.. First game of the season he had 2catches and 2nd game he got his 1st TD.. And he was the only 1st rder on ur entire list outside of David Wilson.. Looking at Nicks 1st 2games and David Wilson's is like looking at a Star and a Dud.. 3catches 69yrd 1td compared to david wilsons 2ypc fumble and dropped pass... And Hakeem Nicks had Mario Manningham and Steve Smith in front em by the way... Both with more expierence and both 2nd and 3rd rd respectable picks with expierence..

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                        • Yo, i never seen a team turn the ball over there 1st 4possesions..lol How funny is that! The broncos should be ashamed of how pathetic there playing! Peyton Manning has made Eli's first half yesterday look like a John Elway 4th qter drive..lol

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                          • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                            Snee was drafted 2004 and Diehl 2003. So Snee is the lone exception because Deihl was under Fassel as a rookie.

                            It is actually quite amazing how consistent TC's policy has been towards offensive rookies.
                            It is? It surprises u that Jeremey Shockey starts ahead of Kevin Boss? Its surprising a 4th rder like Jacobs at his size is the Goal line back and not getting a ton of carries when u got Tiki Barber on the team? And again, tons of those guys not only didn't play as rookies, they never panned out period!!!! Thats not exactly a positive toward Wilson... Brewer still isn't playing even in his 2nd yr, so did it occur he might not be good enough? Andre Brown didn't even make the team..lol Darel Scott is a 7th rd pick who had Bradshaw and Jacobs ahead of him.. I could litteraly do this for everyone on ur list basically..

                            And not all of em didn't play, but obviously the ones who were at least good enough to play , were behind some better options.. David Wilson has played, and 100pct got first crack behind bradshaw, but got into the doghouse wk 1, and got in the doghouse in wk 2.. Do u think a guy who comes in first beahind bradshaw was gonna do good and stop getting the ball? Brown took that Opp and ran with it..

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                            • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                              Ya, and just about all of those guys had very good players ahead of them.. David WIlson does not.. he dosen't have Jeremey Shockey, Plax and Toomer, Bradshaw and Jacobs, in front of em, does he? Like i said, COughlin plays rookies when playing the rookie is the best solution.. David Wilson should be the best solution.. He was given first crack after Bradshaw went down, and did nothing.. He soured again with his 2ypc and dropped pass..

                              And also, half ur guys ont hat list still don't play..lol Because they weren't good draft picks, as it happens sometimes..
                              So again, where are your examples? Im still waiting....

                              Sorry dude, this is a losing battle you are fighting. I listed just about every single offensive rookie drafted under during TC regime and the only exception.

                              I mentioned Nicks. I said how he saw some limmited playtime. But was not named a starter until mid season. In fact despite HUGE need at the wr position that year he only started 6 of the 14 games he played. I thank you for bringing him up tho as he completely refutes your argument that immediate need will force offensive rookies into action. Nicks was a very NFL ready player, and he did see more action than most rookies but he was still held back according to TCs slow rookie development plan. Many of his sucessful early plays were just wr screens.
                              Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-18-2012, 03:45 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                It is? It surprises u that Jeremey Shockey starts ahead of Kevin Boss? Its surprising a 4th rder like Jacobs at his size is the Goal line back and not getting a ton of carries when u got Tiki Barber on the team? And again, tons of those guys not only didn't play as rookies, they never panned out period!!!! Thats not exactly a positive toward Wilson... Brewer still isn't playing even in his 2nd yr, so did it occur he might not be good enough? Andre Brown didn't even make the team..lol Darel Scott is a 7th rd pick who had Bradshaw and Jacobs ahead of him.. I could litteraly do this for everyone on ur list basically..

                                And not all of em didn't play, but obviously the ones who were at least good enough to play , were behind some better options.. David Wilson has played, and 100pct got first crack behind bradshaw, but got into the doghouse wk 1, and got in the doghouse in wk 2.. Do u think a guy who comes in first beahind bradshaw was gonna do good and stop getting the ball? Brown took that Opp and ran with it..
                                so every rookie we have drafted under TC save 1 has been unable to play signifcantly early in his rookie year because we didnt need them? Wow that is amazing. It is also nonsense.


                                I listed almost every single rookie brought in under TC. Looking back I forgot a couple of rooks. Petrus and Koets for example. But they only support my claim even further. You are just being stubborn in the face of overwhelming evidence.

                                Seriously, you calling out a draft pick after TWO GAMES. That is absurd.
                                Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-18-2012, 04:26 AM.
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