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A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

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  • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    All u heard was rave reviews about him all preseason.. Hes the real deal...
    I am still a little confused as to why he was not a top 20 pick. He is 1 of those guys who was a "late mover" to the downside. I still never heard why exactly tho. I am coming to think that people who either move up or down the board at the last second are usually moving for bad reasons. It just seems like alot of the last second risers seem to underachive and a lot of the last second fallers seem to be overachievers.
    Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-20-2012, 03:15 AM.
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    • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
      I am still a little confused as to why he was not a top 20 pick. He is 1 of those guys who was a "late mover" to the downside. I still never heard why exactly tho. I am coming to think that people who either move up or down the board at the last second are usually moving for bad reasons. It just seems like alot of the last second risers seem to underachive and a lot of the last second fallers seem to be overachievers.
      I am starting to think that alot of draftniks like Mel Kiper and others get caught up in the hype of certain players too instead of looking for the consistency. I don't think they look at a player's whole body of work. Even from draftniks on the same network or in the same magazine you'll see statements about a player being a good run blocker but the next guy saying his weakness is run blocking.

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      • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
        shoot, i even forgot about Justin Tryon as well.. Tryon is 5ft 9 180lbs.. B.Johnson has some height at 5ft 11in, but weights a meager 180lbs.. And then u got Hosely, whos really small and skinny.. I think they like Physical CB's for the mostpart(not saying they wont make exceptions), and alot of physical DB's end up being kinda biggish.. U don't agree with that redeye?
        Perry fewell was quoted last year saying that Tryon "doesn't have the size we typically look for"at the time tryon joined us and played last season. size is a big part of their evaluation of a player.

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        • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
          Hey Redeye, Brandon Oliver RB Buff is on T.V tonight.. Going up against Kent St...
          Damn i missed it. Wanted to see Roosevelt Nix 2

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          • Originally posted by Rat_bastich View Post
            I am starting to think that alot of draftniks like Mel Kiper and others get caught up in the hype of certain players too instead of looking for the consistency. I don't think they look at a player's whole body of work. Even from draftniks on the same network or in the same magazine you'll see statements about a player being a good run blocker but the next guy saying his weakness is run blocking.
            Depends on what games they watched as well. I watch a lot of games but not every game. Its quite possible especially this early to just catch a player on a bad day. Also guys prejudice
            's gets involved. Might like certain types of players schemes. A guy might like more zone coverage so a man corner he will rate lower. Just how it is

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            • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
              The bills just drafted there 2nd monster sized CB in 2yr span with Gilmore and A.Williams, but it dosen't mean they won't draft a good CB because hes not big.. Hence Ron Brooks... Actually, i find it hard to believe we got bigger secondary then the bills...

              What about the Steelers? Ike Taylor is 6ft 2inch, and Cortez Allen is 6ft 1in almost 200lbs..Keenan lewis is 6ft 208lbs.. Every one of those guys are bigger then our biggest CB.. Curtis Brown is 6ft almost a 190 as well..

              Chargers got Quentin Jammer whos 6ft 204lb and Cason whos 6ft 1in 196lbs... Marcus Gilchrist is 5ft 10in 200lbs...etc


              Are u sure we have the biggest CB's in the league?
              Secondary and Defense ,Last year and the year before they were . This year your probably right though . Without the injuries to Thomas and Amukmara Giants would of looked different though. Tryon wouldnt of made the team. U would of been left with Webster,Thomas ,Amukumara,Coe and Hosley

              They still might have the tallest defense overall. Giants Defensive Line and Linebackers are really tall. If u took all the 11 starters plus the Nickel back if u add together and divide probably still have the tallest defense overall.Id be shocked if it didnt dwarf most teams Front 7's.



              .
              Last edited by Redeyejedi; 09-20-2012, 11:20 AM.

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              • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                Dude, they like physical db's.. If theres a physical DB that is smallish, they'll take em.. Hence why they signed Bruce Johnson as a UDF and Drafted Jayron Hosley..


                Didn't they just draft Hosley? Hes the opitomy of a small CB... That pretty much prooves right there that they have absoulutley no problem adding a smaller CB... Again, they like Physical Corners, hence Terrell Thomas, Bruce Johnson, Jayron Hosley, Michael Coe, Corey Webster..etc
                Bruce Johnson was 5'11. As I said with Fewell here I dont think its a big deal anymore because they dont play as much press man. Hosley fits what Fewell likes to do with the off coverage and Zone he is great in those situations.Hosley might of been the best zone corner in the draft, plus he has fantastic ball skills.

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                • A couple guys to keep an eye on that im high on. Most scouts fawned over Sean Porter and I have continuously said that Damontre Moore is the better Texas A&M prospect. After having 72 tackles 8.5 sacks ,17 TFL , as the hybrid jack LB he has switched to DE in a 4-3 over front. So far 16 Tackles and 5 sacks though 2 games.
                  Jonathan Stewart A&M's MLB aint bad either. Probably plays SOLB in the NFL.
                  Dallas Thomas 1 of the best Left Tackles in the country "Watch the Tape" last year and was switched to Left Guard to get the 5 best guys on the field. 2 me that makes no sense at all but he is even better at LG. Might not have ideal LT measurements but every game i watch Dallas Thomas is just dominating people. Can handle speed rusher like Jarvis Jones and stonewalling athletic 3 techs like Shariff Floyd.

                  Lamarcus joyner FSU- A smaller built safety SS that 2 years ago I may of dismissed. I love the way he competes. He is constantly around the Football even if he isnt the 1 making the play. Teams will overlook him but he will make a roster.

                  2 Running Backs that I think are severely underrated but arent playing now because of injury Alfred Blue of LSU and Jalston Fowler of Alabama. Fowler looked like an elite FB prospect and they arent many of those. A guy that could give u 100 yards and plow the way as a lead blocker. 6'1 250 pounds with quick feet looked very special vs Michigan


                  Been watching a bunch of FLorida because of all the Defensive prospects and i really like there end/LB Lerentte Mccray. Benefiting from the 1 on 1 blocking he is saying. Not so many sacks but is causing pressure
                  Last edited by Redeyejedi; 09-20-2012, 12:27 PM.

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                  • If anything, I think the Giants have learned their lesson with regards to the big vs small CB issue. yes they like Big physical CBs, but you have to have a guy or 2 who is small and quick to cover the DeSean's and Welkers of the world. I believe that is why they drafted Hosley(aside from the fact that if he was not small and smoked pot at a bad time, he might have been the 1st CB taken) . Not so much to be the outside guy who has to cover a Dez Bryant, but to stay with the smaller quicker guys who have, in recent years, made big plays vs this defense when the offensive play breaks down and the QB has to improvise.

                    Another point I would make is that unlike a lot of other smaller CBs in college football, the VT coaches did not shy away from putting Hosley on any WR they faced, no matter his size. He was thier #1 corner, and he was gonna be on your #1 wr, despite the size difference. In my opinion, that allowed for easier study of Hosley gametape. The 1 problem you have with evaluating corners coming out, which makes it so hard to truly know their NFL value, is the difference in rules from college to the pros. Some of those big physical corners look amazing in college because they can get away with contact after 5 yards, which is allowed in CFB. But they get to the NFL and they are a penalty machine. I think Aqib Talib is a good example. He has not gotten used to the NFL rules and had the refs actually been on top of their game, Nicks may have forced the mercy rule on the Bucs. But, in a guy like Hosley, that consideration is NOT a factor because the lil guy needs to eat some big macs, who is he gonna push around out there? He did all his work with pure coverage skills. in my opinion, that actually made evaluating him easier than most.
                    Last edited by BlueSanta; 09-20-2012, 01:28 PM.
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                    • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                      I am still a little confused as to why he was not a top 20 pick. He is 1 of those guys who was a "late mover" to the downside. I still never heard why exactly tho. I am coming to think that people who either move up or down the board at the last second are usually moving for bad reasons. It just seems like alot of the last second risers seem to underachive and a lot of the last second fallers seem to be overachievers.
                      I have no idea.. U know the way the draft is, its just a crazy event that never goes exactly as u think.. Either way, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say Glenn is gonna be a multiple All Pro Lineman during his career, assuming he stays healthy

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                      • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                        Bruce Johnson was 5'11. As I said with Fewell here I dont think its a big deal anymore because they dont play as much press man. Hosley fits what Fewell likes to do with the off coverage and Zone he is great in those situations.Hosley might of been the best zone corner in the draft, plus he has fantastic ball skills.
                        Ya i know Johnson is 5ft 10in, i was kinda going on his weight.. Hes pretty rail thin... Well i remember Coughlin i believe raving about the physicality of Hosley's play as well.. Hosley is mad physical for a guy his size.. I don't think they would ndraft a little CB that is all finesse, thats for sure.. TT had Saffety expierence and is known to mix it up against the run, and Bruce Johnson was a physical DB at the U..etc I just think they like guys who aren't afraid to mix it up on both run defense and obviously pass defense...

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                        • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
                          If anything, I think the Giants have learned their lesson with regards to the big vs small CB issue. yes they like Big physical CBs, but you have to have a guy or 2 who is small and quick to cover the DeSean's and Welkers of the world. I believe that is why they drafted Hosley(aside from the fact that if he was not small and smoked pot at a bad time, he might have been the 1st CB taken) . Not so much to be the outside guy who has to cover a Dez Bryant, but to stay with the smaller quicker guys who have, in recent years, made big plays vs this defense when the offensive play breaks down and the QB has to improvise.

                          Another point I would make is that unlike a lot of other smaller CBs in college football, the VT coaches did not shy away from putting Hosley on any WR they faced, no matter his size. He was thier #1 corner, and he was gonna be on your #1 wr, despite the size difference. In my opinion, that allowed for easier study of Hosley gametape. The 1 problem you have with evaluating corners coming out, which makes it so hard to truly know their NFL value, is the difference in rules from college to the pros. Some of those big physical corners look amazing in college because they can get away with contact after 5 yards, which is allowed in CFB. But they get to the NFL and they are a penalty machine. I think Aqib Talib is a good example. He has not gotten used to the NFL rules and had the refs actually been on top of their game, Nicks may have forced the mercy rule on the Bucs. But, in a guy like Hosley, that consideration is NOT a factor because the lil guy needs to eat some big macs, who is he gonna push around out there? He did all his work with pure coverage skills. in my opinion, that actually made evaluating him easier than most.
                          Ya, thats pretty much my point.. There not gonna pass on a CB that is very talented becasue of size.. Especially if that CB is physical with ball skills... Thats the only thing i'm saying..

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                          • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                            Secondary and Defense ,Last year and the year before they were . This year your probably right though . Without the injuries to Thomas and Amukmara Giants would of looked different though. Tryon wouldnt of made the team. U would of been left with Webster,Thomas ,Amukumara,Coe and Hosley

                            They still might have the tallest defense overall. Giants Defensive Line and Linebackers are really tall. If u took all the 11 starters plus the Nickel back if u add together and divide probably still have the tallest defense overall.Id be shocked if it didnt dwarf most teams Front 7's.



                            .
                            Ya, i here ya.. But that stuff flip flops so much, i see it more as conincidence then anything else.. THey did draft Greg Jones, whos very short, and marvin austin is only about 6ft 2in..etc I just think if theres a value pick to be had or they fall in love with a player and there on the board, they'll take em, more so then holding themselves hostage to only half the prospects on yr to yr basis.. I bet that if they had there choice though, they'd most certainly perfer a 6ft 2inch 200lb Corner that can fly and cover and is physical and makes plays...

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                            • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                              A couple guys to keep an eye on that im high on. Most scouts fawned over Sean Porter and I have continuously said that Damontre Moore is the better Texas A&M prospect. After having 72 tackles 8.5 sacks ,17 TFL , as the hybrid jack LB he has switched to DE in a 4-3 over front. So far 16 Tackles and 5 sacks though 2 games.
                              Jonathan Stewart A&M's MLB aint bad either. Probably plays SOLB in the NFL.
                              Dallas Thomas 1 of the best Left Tackles in the country "Watch the Tape" last year and was switched to Left Guard to get the 5 best guys on the field. 2 me that makes no sense at all but he is even better at LG. Might not have ideal LT measurements but every game i watch Dallas Thomas is just dominating people. Can handle speed rusher like Jarvis Jones and stonewalling athletic 3 techs like Shariff Floyd.

                              Lamarcus joyner FSU- A smaller built safety SS that 2 years ago I may of dismissed. I love the way he competes. He is constantly around the Football even if he isnt the 1 making the play. Teams will overlook him but he will make a roster.

                              2 Running Backs that I think are severely underrated but arent playing now because of injury Alfred Blue of LSU and Jalston Fowler of Alabama. Fowler looked like an elite FB prospect and they arent many of those. A guy that could give u 100 yards and plow the way as a lead blocker. 6'1 250 pounds with quick feet looked very special vs Michigan


                              Been watching a bunch of FLorida because of all the Defensive prospects and i really like there end/LB Lerentte Mccray. Benefiting from the 1 on 1 blocking he is saying. Not so many sacks but is causing pressure
                              Ya, Alfred Blue is a unit..

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                              • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                                Ya, i here ya.. But that stuff flip flops so much, i see it more as conincidence then anything else.. THey did draft Greg Jones, whos very short, and marvin austin is only about 6ft 2in..etc I just think if theres a value pick to be had or they fall in love with a player and there on the board, they'll take em, more so then holding themselves hostage to only half the prospects on yr to yr basis.. I bet that if they had there choice though, they'd most certainly perfer a 6ft 2inch 200lb Corner that can fly and cover and is physical and makes plays...
                                LOL yeah who wouldnt

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