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A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

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  • Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
    P.A. Jeffrey

    Anatomical position of the body is with your palms facing outward, degrees of flexion/extension/adduction and abduction heavily rely on cartilage. The labrum is a rolled stack of cartilage that supports the humerus head to the scapula, as since it is cartilage it has a lot to do with axis of motion in degrees. any tear to this area puts strain on the ligamets that connect the calvicle to the the highest point of the shoulder bone (acromion). It also forces tension which over time creates wear and tear to the RC muscle and tendons.
    An Oline man fully extends his arms out to meet resistance usually by equal or greater weight. so the velocity extended - meeting force applied = power (physics) now you add a weak/ rebuilding cartilage to that equation; the pain is immesurable, more damage not can, will! happen. He will not be able to hold his blocks long.

    Now talent wise he is worth a late round selection, depending on what his examining physicians determine. If its a serious tear I wouldn't even take him, If its a moderate superficial benign tear then mid-late 4th-6th round, in hopes that with the surgical care, steroid/pain injections and ortho treatments might get him back to 80-90% of his ability, he will never be 100% again, even 90% at his position is a stretch
    no way..lol U think Brennan WIlliams is now never gonna be back to what he was? Mike Whale played fine after coming back from Lat tear.. Andrew Gardner, a 2008 OT prospect from Ga Tech played with the injury for awhile before succumbing to it... There isn't any mock site or anyone even mentioning a drop later then maybe the 3rd on Brennan WIlliams..

    I'm not even remotley concerned about it, to be honest.. so many QB's, who have to extend there arms and use every inch of there arm throwing the ball come back fine from it all the time.. There talking about him being ready for Postseason All Star games, let alone draft time and the combine...

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    • Brennan Williams is gonna be fine.. He played with the injury for alot of the season and well might i add, up untill finally it was 2 much in the 4th qter of the Duke game.. Heres a article on em when he was injured.. Hes not dropping to no 6th round because of a labrum tear.. He'll be off the board before the 4th rd..

      North Carolina senior OT Brennan Williams out for the season
      By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
      October 26, 2012 3:14 am ET 0 | CommentNorth Carolina starting offensive tackle Brennan Williams will miss the remainder of his senior season after surgery Thursday to repair a torn labrum in his left shoulder, team spokesman Kevin Best announced. Williams hasn't played at 100% for much of the season and further injured his shoulder in the fourth quarter against Duke last Saturday.

      Williams currently ranks as NFLDraftScout.com's No. 2 senior offensive tackle and 38th prospect overall. At 6-7, 310 pounds, Williams has surprisingly light feet for his size with the length and frame to start on the right side in the NFL. He hadn't played with the same aggressiveness or consistent mean streak as of late, but the shoulder issue looks to be the culprit. In his latest mock draft, Rob Rang had the Tar Heels senior tackle slotted to the San Francisco 49ers in the late first round.

      In last Saturday's loss to Duke, Williams played the first three quarters, but left the field a minute into the fourth quarter, clutching his left arm. Senior starting right guard Travis Bond moved over to tackle for the final quarter against the Blue Devils and is expected to man the right tackle position for the remainder of the season. Bond is NFLDraftScout.com's No. 7 ranked senior offensive guard for the 2013 NFL Draft.

      Williams became a full-time starter last season as a junior in Chapel Hill and started the first eight games of the 2012 campaign. He will finish his collegiate career with 22 career starts, all coming at right tackle. Williams' father, Brent, had an 11-year NFL career (1986-1993) at defensive end, spending time with the New England Patriots, Seattle Seahawks and New York Jets.

      Normally the recovery time from labrum surgery is anywhere from two-to-six months depending on the severity of the tear, which could potentially keep Williams out of some pre-draft workouts. Hopefully that is not the case, however, and he will be able to showcase his skills at the Senior Bowl and NFL Combine three months from now.

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      • Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
        you forgot minter.... how dare you!
        I have a wierd feeling Minter might go back to school.. Hes a sure fire 1st rder, i think with another yr.. I could be wrong, but ur right, i should of added him regardless.. I love em as a prospect...

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        • Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
          With the labrum tear as an O-line man the force applied/ pressure on the shoulders are greater than any other positon. we have pilots that are put on down status for 365 days with re-evals/ ortho for this issue and all they do is pull/push minimal and carry around an O2 tank (15 pounds) lol. I hope that is the case but from what I have saw clincally i would have to disagree there.

          I was thinking rambo as well as i put it in my edit. but I thought he would be gone by where we select in the 2nd so i didn't even bother. you are the one that's got me buzzing on rambo your love for him is well deserved from what i saw. and as far as milliner i know he wil not leave the top 15 but i was saying if we had a chance at CB's/S in the first these are the guys i would want in that order.

          Edit: Also while i agree there might be zero chance of us having a shot at milliner, it was the same thing we said about prince. so anything can be possible. There is always a knee jerking pull on QB's and right now I have a couple of teams that might do that in the first KC/Titans/Jaguars/(surprisingly) Bills might be in ths bucket as well/Raiders might want to rebuild/Cardinals/ Wont be surprised if the Jets are in the market as well depending on whos on the table at their pick, that circus is always good for a shocker. So at the most that pushes some guys out of their potential landing spots. I think 4 QBs at the most don't leave the first, possible 5.
          Completely diffrent situation with Prince.. First off, we got prince at pick 19, which i'm pretty sure we'll be picking at least 5picks later then that, i would hope.. 2ndly, Millner is pretty much the best CB in this class in most eyes, and Prince was behind Patrick Peterson... There is no Patrick Peterson blocking Dermarcus Millner this yr... Hes not getting outta the top 10, and if he somehow does, it'll be early teens when he hears his name called...

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          • Originally posted by BlueSanta View Post
            I went through this injury in colllege. It is no joke for a lineman.

            The labrum tear is common in sports, very true. None of those guys you mentioned are linemen. It CAN be devistating to a lineman. It depends on the severeity and location of the tear.

            Its hard to describe in writing to someone who hasnt been through it, but your arms are fully functional until you get them extended at shoulder length or higher away from your body. At that point, your very weak and vulnerable to dislocations. It can be rebuilt via surgery but it often leaves a shorter range of motion , weaker, and some people's body dont take to it. Sometimes, if the tear is in a decent spot, it only effects you when your arms are away from you body and behind you. That doenst effect linemen at all. But, if it is a frontal tear, and you are weak when your arms are out in front of you or extended to the side, it is no joke of an injury. There is a brace a lot of guys where to help with this injury, you have all seen it but maybe didnt know what it does or thought it was a arm pad. It is a brace on the upper bicept just below the shoulder pad that is attached to a chest brace that forbids a certain range of motion. The problem is that range of motion isnt 1 needed by a RB, DB, or even a LB, but it is often required by linemen on every play.

            You mentioned a lot of players who have had this injury, I would mention 1 a little closer to home: Justin Tuck. He has never been the same since that injury. He used to always control his guy and has been a shadow of his former self since the injury. A lot of people say it is age or lack of motivation and maybe it is, but anyone who has had the injury knows that it likely had something to do with it.

            In truth, I cant rate Williams right now. On ability he is a 1st rounder. The problem is I wont be able to see what the docs say about him at the combine. That literally will determine his value in this league and we dont get that info. If they determine he has a bad tear, he could be a 6th rounder. If they say it is an inconsequential 1, then he might be back to a 1st rounder again. I would say that if by the end of the 3rd round his name hasnt been called, the docs didnt like what they saw in him.
            Tuck has never been the same player after that injury. I agree thats a killer injury . I would be scared of drafting him high
            Last edited by Redeyejedi; 12-08-2012, 10:40 AM.

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            • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
              Brennan Williams is gonna be fine..
              Hope so for him. But the medical check ups at the combine are key for him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                no way..lol U think Brennan WIlliams is now never gonna be back to what he was? Mike Whale played fine after coming back from Lat tear.. Andrew Gardner, a 2008 OT prospect from Ga Tech played with the injury for awhile before succumbing to it... There isn't any mock site or anyone even mentioning a drop later then maybe the 3rd on Brennan WIlliams..

                I'm not even remotley concerned about it, to be honest.. so many QB's, who have to extend there arms and use every inch of there arm throwing the ball come back fine from it all the time.. There talking about him being ready for Postseason All Star games, let alone draft time and the combine...
                I am not talking out of my *** on this one. As a medical professional I think i would know this sort of stuff. It depends on the type of tear is it a horizontal or lateral tear, the inch depth/ width of the tear as well plays a role in the recovery process. Any damage to cartilage would make that site unable to retain 100% full function after surgery and ortho. Like i said what the medical examiners determine on him will tell us where he falls and I would rather see what the NFL examiners say first before any other 2-3rd option made by either himself or the school.

                QB and OL are different in how they use their RC muscles, the QB uses more range of motion than the OL yes, but the OL meets resistance with weighted force when going up against other DL or 2, completely different degrees of use.
                Last edited by rainierjef; 12-08-2012, 01:17 PM.

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                • I am having trouble rating the top five CB's. I know for a fact at the beginning of the season i had them as.
                  1. David Amerson, North Carolina State
                  2. Tyrann Mathieu, LSU
                  3. Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State
                  4. Johnny Adams, Michigan State
                  5. Jordan Poyer, Oregon State
                  Mathieu is out of the picture, Amerson has disappointed a little to me, Adams sigh*
                  tell me what you guys think I am going off the curve on this one.
                  1. Demarucs Milliner, Alabama
                  2. Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State
                  3. Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
                  4. Jordan Poyer, Oregon State
                  5. David Amerson, North Carolina State
                  and I have Tharold simon in at 6 and Kyle fuller at 7
                  Last edited by rainierjef; 12-08-2012, 01:30 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by nycsportzfan View Post
                    Brennan Williams is gonna be fine.. He played with the injury for alot of the season and well might i add, up untill finally it was 2 much in the 4th qter of the Duke game..
                    Well, you are welcome to guess how he will turn out. I wont because I have been through this injury. That article says absolutely nothing about the tear, just that it exists. In this case the devil is in the details, and we dont know them.

                    His having played through the injury means absolutely nothing either. This injury isnt like others. EVERY labrum tear is manageable for a time. However, playing with it puts a players rotator cuff at risk, since the labrum helps stablize the cuff. This is also a reoccuring injury. Athletes who have the surgery are far more likely to need more down the road.

                    And the 6-8 month timeframe is not accurate at all either, maybe for a normal person, but not a NFL player. That is how long it takes to have relative full opperation of the shoulder, NOT the full strength. There is little guarantee a player will ever have full strength. It all depends on where the tear is. To this day, 20 years after my surgery I still do the rehab excersices routinely because the moment I stop my shoulder immediately weakens. You can argue "the have made improvements" but the fact is the most common procedure today is the same 1 they did to me.

                    In my opinion, there are 2 types of athletes that shoulder tears of this nature can be extremely dangerous for careers. 1 is a lineman and the other is a wrestler(the mat wretler, not the tv crap). In both cases this injury CAN have a huge impact on a career, or it could be nothing. It all depends on the location/severity of the tear.
                    Last edited by BlueSanta; 12-08-2012, 07:10 PM.
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                    • Originally posted by rainierjef View Post
                      1. Demarucs Milliner, Alabama
                      2. Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State
                      3. Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
                      4. Jordan Poyer, Oregon State
                      5. David Amerson, North Carolina State
                      I think that is about right. I am not sure about the order exactly, but imho those are the top 5. I still hold Desmond Trufant in high regard as well.

                      I still want to see Poyer's measurables at the combine. I have seen him listed at 5'9 and also at 5'11. If he is 5'9ish he is likely a slot guy only and that would devalue him even tho he has played very well this year. In that case, Trufant moves him out of the top 5.
                      Last edited by BlueSanta; 12-08-2012, 07:18 PM.
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                      • I don't think Amerson is a top CB prospect. I'm not even sure he projects as a FS. In terms of coverage skill he is like a 5th rounder

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                        • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                          Hope so for him. But the medical check ups at the combine are key for him.
                          U see his dad yell at me on Twitter for saying its a serious injury . He told me to check my facts LOL. I got to watch myself I know some of these players keep tabs

                          Jmpasq ‏@Jmpasq
                          Torn labrum is a serious injury for Brennan Williams a lot of players are never the same after that. Justin Tuck is a shadow of himself

                          Brent Williams ‏@bdub969391
                          @Jmpasq NO it's not, Played 7 more years after the surgery - it's the most common injury with linemen in the nfl - check your facts
                          Last edited by Redeyejedi; 12-08-2012, 08:14 PM.

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                          • Ha! thats amusing.

                            I didnt realize torn labrums were so common, lol.


                            Anyway, Mingo is a sort of strange prospect, clearly explosive as heck, but he doesnt translate that speed into power at all, If he could learn to use his speed to get under guys and drive them backward he is a Von Miller type of prospect. But he just doesnt. Flies up into a guy then its like he hits a brick wall.

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                            • Originally posted by slipknottin View Post
                              Ha! thats amusing.

                              I didnt realize torn labrums were so common, lol.


                              Anyway, Mingo is a sort of strange prospect, clearly explosive as heck, but he doesnt translate that speed into power at all, If he could learn to use his speed to get under guys and drive them backward he is a Von Miller type of prospect. But he just doesnt. Flies up into a guy then its like he hits a brick wall.
                              I wonder if he should just switch to linebacker. He doesnt seem to be strong enough to play end. His tape is really mediocre this season not sure why everyone is still putting him in the Top 10

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                              • Originally posted by Redeyejedi View Post
                                I wonder if he should just switch to linebacker. He doesnt seem to be strong enough to play end. His tape is really mediocre this season not sure why everyone is still putting him in the Top 10
                                you thinking another Vernon gholston issue, for the gaining organization?

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